Piano History

Back to discussions
Expand all | Collapse all

Older Steinway age

  • 1.  Older Steinway age

    Posted 05-20-2013 13:54
    This message has been cross posted to the following Discussions: Piano History and Pianotech .
    -------------------------------------------
    Hello all.

    I'm trying to figure out how old this piano is.

    Steinway & Sons New-York (cast in the iron frame).
    3/4 plate, stopping at the pinblock, which is apparent and oblique.
    Cross strung.
    Soundboard grain perpendicular to the long side.
    Variation on the English action (!)
    Multi layered underfelt small hammers.
    Two pedals.
    Rim in 3 parts.
    Turned legs.
    Burled walnut veneer.
    All case parts bear the same number : 411.

    I read that the first Steinway New-York had the serial number 483, so I suspect that 411 is not a serial number.
    Any clue ?  Did the early Steinway pianos have a separate number for the case ?
    Can anybody give a try and guess the age of this piano following its features ?

    Best regards to all.

    -------------------------------------------
    Stephane Collin
    Kessel-Lo
    +32498349063
    -------------------------------------------


  • 2.  RE:Older Steinway age

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-20-2013 14:04
    What model/size is it?  Cupola plate?

    -------------------------------------------
    Zeno Wood
    Brooklyn, NY
    -------------------------------------------








  • 3.  RE:Older Steinway age

    Posted 05-20-2013 14:24
    Hi Zeno.

    The piano is 200 cm long.  The plate is an older design, stopping in front of the apparent pinblock instead of covering it.  No cupola.

    -------------------------------------------
    Stephane Collin
    Kessel-Lo
    +32498349063
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 4.  RE:Older Steinway age

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-20-2013 14:32
    Hi Stephane,
    Sorry to not ask more questions all at once.  How many notes does it have, and how many notes in the bass section?  I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

    Have you seen the (relatively) new book by David Kirkland and Roy Kehl, The Official Guide to Steinway Pianos?  It's very helpful in figuring all this stuff out.

    Regards,
    Zeno

    -------------------------------------------
    Zeno Wood
    Brooklyn, NY
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 5.  RE:Older Steinway age

    Posted 05-20-2013 14:59
    Hi Zeno.
    Thanks for your input.
    I don't know the book you are recommending.
    The instrument has 85 notes.  The bass section, I can't remember (the piano is not yet at my place), I think 20 or so, but the older bass strings are covered with white brass (not sure those are original, as many bass strings were replaced).  A few trichords.  Quite small dampers.

    -------------------------------------------
    Stephane Collin
    Kessel-Lo
    +32498349063
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 6.  RE:Older Steinway age

    Posted 05-20-2013 15:53
    White brass covered? Sure it's not iron? I restrung an 1854 Emerich Betsy (Wien) Fortepiano about a year ago and the bass strings were iron covered. Needless to say the owner could/wouldn't afford replacement in iron covering so we went to copper.  Michael (UK)

    -------------------------------------------
    Michael Gamble
    semi retired
    Brighton
    01273813612
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 7.  RE:Older Steinway age

    Posted 05-20-2013 15:59
    Yes Michael, it could be iron.  I'm not that skilled at recognizing iron from white brass ...

    -------------------------------------------
    Stephane Collin
    Kessel-Lo
    +32498349063
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 8.  RE:Older Steinway age

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-20-2013 16:37
    Just guessing here, based on Kirkland's book.  (He or Bill Shull would be able to guess better than I.)

    It could be what the book refers to as a Parlor Scale Monitor, listed as #3a on p.10.  Flat plate, sectional rim.  Possible an experimental piano leading to the Parlor Scale Monitor that had a full cupola plate, an ancestor of the Model B.  This one was made in 1869.  Unfortunately the book doesn't say anything about the action.  Does your piano have "agraffes throughout", and a "continuous sounboard bridge, curved bass?"

    -------------------------------------------
    Zeno Wood
    Brooklyn, NY
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 9.  RE:Older Steinway age

    Posted 05-20-2013 17:14
    Yes Zeno, aggraffees all around, no capo.  Two bridges : the long one quite straight, with no "hockey stick", and the bass one indeed curved.  1869 could be a good guess.  I didn't find any other number than the 411 on the case parts.

    -------------------------------------------
    Stephane Collin
    Kessel-Lo
    +32498349063
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Older Steinway age

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 05-22-2013 12:56
    If Stephane's piano is a Th. Steinweg, it could be an ancestor to the Monitor. This is part of what fuels my interest. Dating the serial number in the Pierce Atlas would be found under Grotrian Steinweg. Bill Shull Sent from my HTC Inspire™ 4G on AT&T ----- Reply message ----- From: "Zeno Wood" To: "William Shull" Subject: Piano History: RE:Older Steinway age Date: Mon, May 20, 2013 1:37 pm Just guessing here, based on Kirkland's book. (He or Bill Shull would be able to guess better than I.) It could be what the book refers to as a Parlor Scale Monitor, listed as #3a on p.10. Flat plate, sectional rim. Possible an experimental piano leading to the Parlor Scale Monitor that had a full cupola plate, an ancestor of the Model B. This one was made in 1869. Unfortunately the book doesn't say anything about the action. Does your piano have "agraffes throughout", and a "continuous sounboard bridge, curved bass?" ------------------------------------------- Zeno Wood Brooklyn, NY -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 11.  RE:Older Steinway age

    Posted 05-20-2013 16:54
    A small magnet is the secret. It will of course stick to the string becuase of the steel core, but you can quite easily notice the difference between a hard direct stick of an iron wrapping and a somewhat soft indirect stick of the somewhat distant core kept away by a copper or brass winding.

    -------------------------------------------
    Paul Poletti
    Builder/restorer historic keyboard instruments
    Poletti Pianos
    Barcelona

    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message


  • 12.  RE:Older Steinway age

    Posted 05-20-2013 17:05
    Clever !

    -------------------------------------------
    Stephane Collin
    Kessel-Lo
    +32498349063
    -------------------------------------------






    Original Message