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Career Decision

  • 1.  Career Decision

    Posted 02-25-2015 06:06
    I'm a public school band/choir director who is strongly considering leaving the profession.  I am extremely interested in the piano technician trade.  I know that it would take several years before I could think about going full time due to time spent with training, apprenticeship, and building a clientele.  It is my hope to work extremely hard and become an RPT.  

    Is this a profession that I could make reasonable money? 

    I know this isn't a technical question post, but I really would like some feedback. 

    Thanks. 


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    Scott Smith
    Louisa KY
    606-638-3223
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  • 2.  RE:Career Decision

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-25-2015 08:54
    Quick answer: yes you can. If I were you my first step would be to contact your local PTG chapter and attend the meeting. Talk to other technicians. Assess your market saturation. Enroll in the Randy Potter course.

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    John Dorr, RPT
    Montana Chapter 594
    Helena, MT
    406-594-1985
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-25-2015 18:18
    Top technicians in metropolitan markets can earn very decent money. If you are in an area that is under served and you work hard, earn the RPT credential and continue to educate yourself you can do well. After teaching business classes for PTG for over twenty years, I have come to believe the the pursuit of excellence in this craft will have both monetary and spiritual rewards. I encourage to work to be the best tech in your area, always think of the next tech to tune (it's usually going to be you) and never do less than the best you can on any piano no matter what the quality of the instrument. Good luck, DP ------------------------------------------- Dale Probst Registered Piano Technician Wichita Falls TX dale@wardprobst.com -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-25-2015 18:48
    Dale - I'm interested in the spiritual rewards you mentioned. Could you share some of that?

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    Scott Kerns
    "That Tuning Guy"
    Lincoln, NE
    www.thattuningguy.com
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-25-2015 18:46
    Why do you want to leave the teaching profession? Are you dissatisfied and just looking for something else? You could find yourself leaping from the frying pan into the fire.

    This is my 20th year tuning pianos and I've been doing it truly full time for about 5 years now and I've had some really good breaks. What I'm saying is, making a good living will take a long time. You might consider doing it part time and see how it goes. In my opinion being an RPT doesn't put any money in you pocket. Yes, do good work and sure, become an RPT if you want, but the main thing is to build up a clientele and that just takes time. 

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    Scott Kerns
    "That Tuning Guy"
    Lincoln, NE
    www.thattuningguy.com
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE:Career Decision

    Posted 02-25-2015 20:36
    Is the Randy Potter course a good investment to begin with and then possibly finding someone to apprentice with? I don't think I could afford to just up and go to Boston. I have a wife and daughter.
    Yes, every field has its challenges but I do not think I can stay in education 38 years. The system becomes more flawed every day.

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    Scott Smith
    Louisa KY
    606-638-3223
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    Original Message


  • 7.  RE:Career Decision

    Posted 02-25-2015 22:59
    It seems you already have a lot of money and time invested in The field of education. Maybe you should first consider changing directions in the field of education. Rule out administration counseling and psychometry. If you have considered all avenues in education and ruled out each one, then it appears you should keep your teaching job while learning piano tuning and repair. Locate your closest P TG chapter and talk to Several RPT's for advice. As others have stated , build your clientele and move cautiously when considering quitting your teaching position. 


    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Career Decision

    Member
    Posted 02-26-2015 07:05
    The Randy Potter course is very much worth it. The repair and regulation parts help a lot, the marketing info is a little dated. The tuning portion is great for a little while, but after some practice you'll at least want an experienced aural tuner to evaluate you. It's difficult to learn to tune aurally without someone telling you your doing it wrong and then spending a few hours showing you what it should sound like. The downside I've found is having to stay on Randy to get your diploma. He seems to have sorted out some issues, but it can take a little waiting to actually have your diploma or your test tape evaluations. I would definetly wait for a few years before quitting, maybe move to part time teaching and then try to go full time. You may find as I have that your repeat customer rate when you start is low. You'll get a lot of first time piano owners that never expected (and can't hear) their piano tuning to only last a year. So for a while you'll be getting mostly new customers. Also learn as much aural tuning as you can before using your ETD, if you buy one. Use it to check yourself maybe, but leave it in the box until you think you have it right. Aural ability to check your tuning is very important. ------------------------------------------- [Ronald] [Moore] [Ft. Wayne] [IN] [260-241-1772] Moorepiano.com -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-26-2015 10:23
    As with every topic here, you will get a raft of opinions...perhaps even some helpful ones.

    I will insert my two cents here, starting with the caveat that only you can make it happen, you need to have the drive and passion to see it through, through good times and bad. It seems trite, but there is some truth in there somewhere. It is one thing to "know" that it is going to take years to learn it, but until you are living it you can't really appreciate that fact. Maybe kinda like "knowing" heavy smoking is bad for you, and saying I really should quit, one of these days...

    Transitioning to a pianotech from full-time work is going to be some sort of painful combination of time/money. Having done it myself, I can't understate the importance of having a partner (e.g. wife) who is completely supportive, and better still if she/he is able to be a provider while you get to where you need to be. The faster the transition, the higher the immediate cost of resources (time/money), but the better the skill level will be, sooner. The longer it takes, the easier the transition, but skills will be slower to develop and therefore motivation may wane. Like a kettle of water, a certain intensity of temperature needs to be reached in order to boil.

    There is something immensely satisfying about being your own boss (for those of us who are), but this satisfaction comes at considerable cost with the tradeoffs of uncertain workflow (particularly at first), no benefits or anything of that nature. In other words, if you are not working, you are not getting paid.

    Ed mentioned a couple of good alternatives for training (I can vouch for Mark Cerisano); the first thing if you haven't already done it is to get an old clunker (there are many out there) and some basic tools and get a feel for it. Talk with your school tuner, or local PTG chapter to get plugged in and see what it's all about before you take the plunge. 

    Not to be dramatic, but it is a huge decision and you want to make sure you want to really do it, and do it for the right reasons. The money will be there, but not for a while. You will still have to interface with people, and often their kids, everyday.

    To end with another hackneyed phrase, you will get out of it what you put into it.

    Best of luck!


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    Ian Gillis
    Chester Basin NS
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    Original Message


  • 10.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-27-2015 08:16
    Question: Is the Randy Potter course a good investment to begin with and then possibly finding someone to apprentice with? I don't think I could afford to just up and go to Boston. I have a wife and daughter.
    Yes, every field has its challenges but I do not think I can stay in education 38 years. The system becomes more flawed every day.

    Answer: Wow, You're a certified teacher with a degree that can cost a lot of money and work to obtain. You must work 38 years with 180 to 190 day work requirements, snow days off, weekends off, dental, health, pension and some of the same even after you retire.  Every job has downsides and frustrations. That's why it is called a JOB and not a hobby. The idea of being self employed is great, so you can only look in the mirror and blame yourself when things slow down, like they did during this recession.  You need a job that can't be shipped overseas or replaced by modern technology e/g, digital pianos. There has already been discussion on this site about the closing of more piano stores, very few piano builders left, from the many hundreds, here in the USA and  changing patterns, like rock bands in churches with fake drums, fake pianos and so on.  If you like to work with your hands good tech schools have night classes you might consider. We haven't been able to live in America without  a sink or toilet and still need someone to fix them when they have problems. How many young folks have never been in a bank because they do all their banking on line. How many young folks become bank tellers?  Pianos are a luxury, folks are able to live without them and waste their money elsewhere. It is easy to throw the old keyboard in the dumpster and buy a new one for a fraction of the cost of a "real" piano. At the same time why pay some tuner to come to your house or business? I'm not saying we no longer need piano techs. there will always be pianos in our country but how many will be left in the next 100 years? No one knows. 

    There are positive things about the Potter school. Maybe you ought to chat with some of the students there. I'm sure there will be many applicants for your current job being that a school needs many math teachers but only one band director and colleges are graduating band director material every year.

    A big decision. Hope your wife has a job that pays great money and you can leave teaching and get on her health insurance where she works.

    Bob

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    Scott Smith
    Louisa KY
    606-638-3223

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    Robert Highfield
    Lancaster PA
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    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Career Decision

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-25-2015 23:13
    S. Kearns said. "In my opinion. being an RPT doesn't put any money in you pocket."

    Yes, and no.  No, the actual letters don't. But it's the process, and the reward that comes with it, makes it possible to earn more money.

    When started in this business I not only questioned my own abilities, I always had the funny feeling that someone was listening in the next room, and then would evaluate my work when I left. But after I passed the exams and became an RPT, it raised my confidence level. I can't prove it, but I'm sure that added confidence showed in my relations with my customers, which increased my income.

    Not until you passed the exams, and understands what it does to you're confidence level, will you know what it means to be an RPT.
    -------------------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Career Decision

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-26-2015 02:17
    When I decided to become a piano technician I had a full time corporate job. Which I kept. For a while. I bought the Randy Potter course, which I recommend, and studied nights and weekends, while still working, for about 18 months to complete it. By then I was Secretary of my local PTG chapter and had started to pick up some tuning gigs. But I kept the day job for almost another year. And the reason I finally quit that day job was because I was beginning to build a client base and had to make the decision to either keep piano technology as a hobby or take the leap and build a real business out of it. I simply no longer had enough time in the week to satisfy the growing piano work and hold the day job. Guess which one I chose? That was eleven years ago. And while it did take several years to build a client base that matched what I was "bringing home" from the "real" job, today I consider myself successful. I firmly believe that it was the best work related decision I ever made. 

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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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  • 13.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-26-2015 05:51
    Hello Scott
    Take heart! My career decision to become a piano tuner was forced on me by personal circumstances. I was living in a caravan with just my daughter a few tuning tools and.a very old Ford station wagon. In those days there was no such thing as a mobile phone so I had to advertise in the local paper and shop window notice boards and use the local music shop as a 'post restante'. I taught myself to tune with no help but a A440 fork. My only advantage in the way to tune and set the bearings came from my having been apprenticed many years before to an Organ Builder in the Voicing Dept. That's it. The biggest difference between the Organ and the Piano being the decay rate of the piano - and having to get in there fast to correct the pitch of the string. So I taught myself entirely and built upon my discoveries in this art - such discoveries as the beat-rate in certain intervals and what they 'should' be. Repairs were a bit of a night-mare as I didn't have a stock of parts or lubricants for stiff centres - let alone the knowledge. Five years later I was approached by Glyndebourne Festival Opera to be their 'Production Tuner' and Pit Manager. That's what I call being thrown in  the deep end! But working along side members of the London Philharmonic and ingesting their extraordinary professionalism made me really work hard at self improvement.
    Now retired and at 80 I can look back with wonderment and astonishment at my past and thank God for my perseverance and all those old clunkers of pianos that made me work on them. . . .
    Michael UK 
     
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    Michael Gamble
    semi retired
    Brighton
    01273813612
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    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-26-2015 09:23
    Less well known are the Rick Butler, RPT course and the Mark Cerisano, RPT trainings. They both teach throught Skype, and you will get a lot of individual coaching on line. They limit the number of students they take to make sure they can give the attention you pay for, so there may be a waiting list. Do your research. The field is not regulated, and there are some correspondence and online schools that are...sadly well-meaning.... Mario Igrec's _Pianos Inside Out_ is the most extensive and up-to-date general text of piano technology. PTG membership, and the related publications and training events will give you a great return for the investment. ------------------------------------------- Ed Sutton ed440@me.com 704-536-7926 -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-26-2015 09:33
    Some people make a good living working in the piano trade. I know of no industry data that indicates what kind of income you should expect to make.

    You would have to relocate from Louisa, KY. There are only four RPTs within a 100 radius of your zip code, and only one business engaged in piano rebuilding, whose address appears to be at the local post office in Pikeville. Neither Charleston, WV nor Lexington, KY have strong piano markets. There are certainly many additional factors to consider before making a change. Those include a re-examination of the reasons you are leaving the field of education.

    You would do well to seek out advice from professional piano tuners that service your area. Talk to music directors at churches with large congregations. Also talk to the tuner that services your school pianos. If you cannot locate a piano tuner to talk to, it is probably a good sign that no one will be able to locate you if you choose to work in the trade.

    Based on the very little information you have provided, I would encourage you to look elsewhere for a new career.



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    Kent Moore
    Lewisville TX
    972-462-9590
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    Original Message


  • 16.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-26-2015 12:15
    Scott Smith: "Is this a profession that I could make reasonable money?"

    That is a loaded question. Going from employment to self employment is another ballgame.

    In spite of all the helpful and informative responses you have received thus far, no one can determine what is "reasonable money" in your particular experience but you.

    Making a decision to change one's direction in life for me has usually come down to this:
    1) I was tired of where I was or what I was doing
    2) An opportunity showed its face that offered a way out of 1)
    3) I had the means and wherewithal to pursue each opportunity presented without concern for making "reasonable money".

    Keith McGavern, RPT
    Shawnee, Oklahoma, USA
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  • 17.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-26-2015 12:57
    Would you be going from a job with medical coverage, to piano work without?
    Will you be getting a school pension, which will subsidize the piano work?
    No vacation pay as a piano tuner.
    As a teacher you are in an ideal position to do it part time, as it seems to me teachers have more time off, than most.

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    John M. Ross
    Ross Piano Service
    Windsor, Nova Scotia, Canada
    jrpiano@bellaliant.net
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    Original Message


  • 18.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-26-2015 14:42
    Piano technology is not one of those things hat you take a course or two, of 6 months, even a year or two, and come out ready to take on the world.

    I see a huge difference between our craft and other, seemingly similar "trades", such as appliance repair, for example.
    Case in point:
    Last week I had a problem with my dryer. I know nothing about dryers - for me it is a big white box.  The location is a somewhat remote recreational property on a small island.  So I would be out several hundred $$ just for travel time/expense for someone to come out, diagnose the problem, then come back a second time with the correct parts. (if it was fixable at all)  So I went on to youtube, spent some time there.  Instant expert!  Diagnosed my dryer problem, got the part, installed it, good as new.

    The many youtube videos on piano repair notwithstanding, repairing pianos is a different ballgame.  You not only need a deep understanding, you also need to develop a tactile sensitivity of how things feel.  Not just how the piano touch feels.  How  repinning should feel, how all the various steps of regulation feel, how a properly voiced (or not) hammer feels.  This -and much more- cannot be imparted by a book, a video, an on-line course (sorry) or a six month training course.  You have to live it.  You have to comitt to life-long learning in the field.

    So if someone wants a new self employed career to get into quickly and make money, or at least a living, I honestly suggest appliance repair. Hey, everyone has several of these in their home, as opposed to pianos - maybe 1 in 20. 

    But pianos are different.
    Somehow, my washer or freezer cannot speak to me the same way...

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    Jurgen Goering
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  • 19.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-27-2015 20:50

    Jurgen,

     

    I could not agree more. Well said. Ours is a craft that takes at least a lifetime to learn. Maybe two. It is not a quick money maker by any stretch of the imagination. Having said that though, if entered into with the idea that learning and honing skills is primary, and money secondary, then the reward can be large.

     

    Alan McCoy




    Original Message


  • 20.  RE: Career Decision

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-27-2015 00:24
    I was an Aerospace Engineer myself and knew I'd want to do "something" to occupy my time when I left the field.  I signed up for the Potter course just to see if I had an interest in Piano Tuning & Repair.  I dabbled with it for about 6 years, doing tunings, some repairs, going to conventions, attended Potter's advanced seminar.  I suddenly found myself retired earlier than expected and went into the piano business 100%.  I'm into my third year as a full time technician and I'm just now beginning to see some steady business, referrals and repeat customers.

    To echo what Wim stated about becoming an RPT, the reason I pursued it was for my own satisfaction and confidence.  When starting out, what do you really need to know to tune and repair a piano? The RPT tests gave me a starting goal to work towards and provided a core competency of skills that I use all the time.  From that starting point, I apprenticed (for free) at several local rebuilders and continue to build my knowledge attending regional and national PTG seminars, went to both the Renner Academy and 37 steps class, actively participate in my local PTG chapter, devour the wealth of information in the Journal and on myPTG.org (for example, how many have tried "The Practical Technician's Tuning Cards 1 & 2 from the January & February issues?).

    Fortunately I have a retirement that is my main source income as my piano business has just started to break even.  Most have told me it takes 3 to 5 years to establish yourself and become profitable and I believe it.  If possible, sign up for the Potter course while you still have an income producing job and do some tuning & repair on the side.

    As to the comment from Dale about spiritual, while I may not have used that term, I suspect I know what he is saying. I get a deep sense of satisfaction when I can take a Betsy Ross Lester Spinet that the parents of little Suzie, who wants to take piano lessons, got for free off Cragislist and is 100 cents flat, broken pedal rod & music desk, dampers not seating, "sticky" keys & loose pins and get it playing again for a reasonable fee.  Besides liking the challenge, I truly feel that I may have made a difference in a child's life.

    As my skills continue to progress, I do find myself getting more high end work in regulation and rebuild but I'll still tackle that free Cragislist piano without hesitation.

    Scott, I found that if you make the effort, there will be those to support you.

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    Jim Fariss, RPT
    Black Forest Piano
    Black Forest, Colorado
    (719) 425-8845
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  • 21.  RE: Career Decision

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-27-2015 10:06
    Hi Scott.

    You're not the first one to ask such a question on these forums and I don't blame you for being concerned enough to ask.  It's a jump into the unknown.

    I got my start 45 years ago and tunings were going for $15.  In those days I could walk into a piano dealership and visit for a bit with the manager and usually score on some work pretty close to right away that day.  If they liked my floor tunings, they gave me calls to do.

    Society has changed a lot since then. 

    As has been mentioned in previous such discussions you have to wear lots of hats and have many talents.  Recently a "new" technician launched his career by spending lots of money on marketing and taking low ball pay for dealer work.  I'm pretty sure it worked well for him  .... at least for now. 

    You can have all the training you want and be a real sensation with social situations but nothing out there gives you the decades of experience that people like myself have.  You have to be on your toes for that at first.

    I've relocated myself seven times to get my business going.  I've learned that you have to stay close to a population center of some kind to survive the slow times.  I had a few lucky breaks along the way and I've had a boat load of failures.  I had to learn to roll with the punches and jump on the opportunities.  With the upcoming economic turmoil that's on the horizon, I'd say everyone needs to hunker down, save your money up and keep your ears tuned for supplemental incomes.  Also consider the fact that the industry as a whole is failing like a river slowly relocating itself.  It's a luxury business and the upcoming generation isn't all that interested in giving up their thumbs for piano lessons.

    Going self-employed from a salaried somewhat guaranteed income is a scary concept  .....  even more so now then when I got my start. 

    Good luck Scott.

    Lar



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    Larry Fisher
    Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
    Vancouver WA
    360-256-2999
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  • 22.  RE: Career Decision

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-27-2015 11:53
    If you decide to make the jump, take the whole whippen into consideration.

    You must become an expert technician, as everyone has said. That is tough enough, but being an excellent technician is not the only hurdle you face.

    (BTW, I was not an RPT for the first 23 years of my being a full time tech. After Al Gore invented the internet, it was worth it to be listed on the PTG site back in the day when we ranked #1 or 2 when "piano" was typed in the search engine. Although our rankings have dropped considerably, it is still a good thing to be listed there as an RPT)

    In order to make money, there are MANY other skills you will need to excel at, or at least get good at. Lets start with these two. Without them you will starve:

    Marketing.. Reaching out to develop a customer base
    Sales.. Teaching your customers when your marketing has brought you face to face.

    You can be the best tech in the world, but if you do not reach and teach people, youre going to be broke all the time. I offer my free sales tips for tuners below in my signature, because I see many a good technician with great skills who struggle financially, including me at times over the last 3+ decades. Learning how to convince your customer to do what is in their best interest is a skill you NEED in order to truly serve your customer. Read books, listen to cd's in your car. I started reading and studying sales in 1988 when I was thinking about changing my career AWAY from tuning because I was not making ends meet very well, and I had been about 10 years as a full time tech. My studying sales doubled my income within a year, so I was able to afford sticking with it. Go here: http://coolstuffformusicians.com/sales-training-gurus/ and check the sales gurus out. Also, there is a wealth of info here: http://www.nightingale.com/?promo=intmsnad05

    But wait! There's more!

    Financial...
    Book Keeping
    Accounting
    Payables
    Receivables
    Collections
    Etc..etc..etc..
    All that fun "numbers" stuff, which I really DO NOT enjoy, but had to get somewhere near reasonably good at (or hire someone) in order to survive.
    How much do you want to make, and what will it take to make it? http://coolstuffformusicians.com/bottom-line-pricing-grid/ "No margin, no mission" (Michael Gerber, The Emyth... a book I highly recommend before you quit your day job)
    I wish I had the "Bottom Line Pricing Grid" when I started out. It reveals the cold hard facts with all the horrors that you NEED to embrace. There is an example in there for earning $70,000 per year, and what it will take to make it.

    But wait! There's more!

    Receptionist
    Telemarketer
    Dispatcher
    Driver
    Scheduling is the bane of my existence. Mrs Jones, 30 miles away can take me on tuesday and only tuesday in the morning. Her literal neighbor cant take me till thursday and only thursday afternoon. (gun to head, pull trigger) Fielding phone calls, e mails (which BTW emails with a smart phone or pad are MUCH easier and less time consuming than scheduling by phone) spending literally hours of time listening about how aunt Millie found the piano, bought the piano, had it moved by horse and buggy.... (pull trigger again... you missed)

    Soooo.. the long and long of it... think long - and hard. Map it out. Don't make the decision with warm fuzzy feelings, make it with cold hard facts, as I am sure you will. I hope my comment and resources listed will help.

    Keep us posted! Im sure all of us will be interested in your progress/final decision.

    Dave
    -------------------------------------------
    David Estey, RPT
    www.EsteyPiano.com
    Piano Tuners Sales Tips for the week. FREE! Sign up here:
    http://coolstuffformusicians.com/fine-tuning-your-salesmanship
    Creating Harmony in a World filled with Discord.
    1-800-ON A PIANO (662-7426)
    dave@esteypiano.com
    -------------------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 23.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-27-2015 15:17
    FYI, whenever business is slow in my piano work, I sometimes wonder what life would've been as a teacher. And I've considered teaching if I ever must quit piano service. Good hours, good benefits. But I'm a little old at 44 to be starting as a newbie teacher! :-)

    What David said is good. So much to do to be successful at this business. The work is fun, but I truly hate the bookwork and the calling customers. I'm good at the work, but don't care at all for the rest. Just being honest....

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    John Formsma, RPT
    New Albany MS
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    Original Message


  • 24.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-28-2015 08:50
    Scott K. Spiritual was probably the wrong choice of word for this forum. I will substitute "elegant compensation". That is when the little pianist plays after you are through, gets up and runs to give you a hug. I don't know if you've been an RPT but that credential has put thousands of dollars in our pockets. We do market both ourselves and the credential but that's Business 101. John F. The best business decision I ever made was to hire bookkeeping and reminder calls out. We found an IRS enrolled agent and he saved us 3K in taxes the first year which paid for two years of his work. We hired a part time assistant to enter data and do mail outs for $10 an hour. One to two turnings per month paid her salary. There are two of us and we are incorporated so your cost could be less. We also gave our secretary regular raises and by the time she left she making about $15/hour and worth every penny. One problem technicians have in business is knowing when to sub out work. Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. Our time is best spent doing what we are best at, not drudgery (no offense to any bookkeepers/clerical workers out there, we desperately need you!). Read Susan Graham's first column in the PTJ memorial edition. Hope this helps, DP ------------------------------------------- Dale Probst Registered Piano Technician Wichita Falls TX dale@wardprobst.com -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 25.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-28-2015 10:41
    Bookkeeping can be easily done with financial software which imports into tax software.

    -------------------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page


  • 26.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-28-2015 10:57
    Sure, but you will always pay more taxes than if you use an enrolled agent in my experience. Their fee is also deductible, I have done it both ways. You save money, time and stress going to a pro. I also volunteered for an audit and given the size of the tax code, no way I would have done that on my own. Went from allegedly owing $30,000 to paying $5,000 one year and getting $5,000 back the next. Audit went on for seven years and my agent always had my back. One tuning a month pays the bill and I just sign the paperwork. Unless your bookkeeping and tax preparation takes less than 12 hours a year you are better off going to an enrolled agent and tuning a piano a month. ------------------------------------------- Dale Probst Registered Piano Technician Wichita Falls TX dale@wardprobst.com -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 27.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-28-2015 12:02
    Dale,

    I'm curious. Are you just you, or do you have employees?


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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 28.  RE: Career Decision

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-28-2015 12:05
    Are you asking me? Or someone else?

    -------------------------------------------
    David Estey, RPT
    www.EsteyPiano.com
    Piano Tuners Sales Tips for the week. FREE! Sign up here:
    http://coolstuffformusicians.com/fine-tuning-your-salesmanship
    Creating Harmony in a World filled with Discord.
    1-800-ON A PIANO (662-7426)
    dave@esteypiano.com
    -------------------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 29.  RE: Career Decision

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-28-2015 12:08
    oops.. didnt see"dale" on the smart phone. my bad.

    -------------------------------------------
    David Estey, RPT
    www.EsteyPiano.com
    Piano Tuners Sales Tips for the week. FREE! Sign up here:
    http://coolstuffformusicians.com/fine-tuning-your-salesmanship
    Creating Harmony in a World filled with Discord.
    1-800-ON A PIANO (662-7426)
    dave@esteypiano.com
    -------------------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 30.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-28-2015 12:43
    Howdy Jim, My boss is my spouse who is full time and we have a part time helper and a potential apprentice. For 20 + years it was two of us. When I was a sole proprietor I did my own taxes for a while but found that I was not smart enough to stay up IRS Code changes, amortization schedules and all the rest of the office work. I didn't like doing it, I wasn't as good at it and it was costing me money and stress. Hiring help was the best solution I could come up with and it has worked for me over 30 plus years. YMMV, DP ------------------------------------------- Dale Probst Registered Piano Technician Wichita Falls TX dale@wardprobst.com -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 31.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-28-2015 12:48
    Ok...I got it. 

    Its just me here, and my son for a little while more.  20 yrs ago I realized that one had two choices in the tax part of the accounting with the IRS...1-play the game as congress has defined it, or 2- lose.  I hired an aggressive, small business tax accountant, and it has saved me many, many $K.

    I was wondering if you have someone do you regular books during the year as well.

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 32.  RE: Career Decision

    Posted 02-28-2015 13:19
    Jim, Yes, we do, the enrolled agents we use also do our bookkeeping. They both have MBAs and run the business their father founded. Enrolled agents have more tax specific training than CPAs and are required to do continuing education to maintain their standing with the IRS. Incidentally, we don't object in theory or practice to paying our share of taxes. We just want to make sure we are not over paying. The audit we experienced taught me that the IRS is full of people who will help you to do that. Snowing in north Texas this morning, DP ------------------------------------------- Dale Probst Registered Piano Technician Wichita Falls TX dale@wardprobst.com -------------------------------------------
    Original Message


  • 33.  RE: Career Decision

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-28-2015 11:04
    Hiring out the work you do not like is definitely the cat's meow, but in the beginning its up to you to generate enough cash flow to do so. When the plane first takes off, it's full throttle. When it gets to the proper altitude, you can pull it back and cruise.

    "Elegant Compensation"... Beautiful phrase. It's kinda what we live for, isn't it?
    I just got this "check in the mail" the other day...

    "Dave,
    I can't thank you enough for the great work you did on both of our pianos! I half-think you sprinkled some piano fairy dust on them because my daughter Katie has not stop playing either of them. Thank you also for being prompt, courteous and a true professional. My family couldn't say enough how nice you were!"

    That's music to my ears... not so much the compliments to me (although it helps my self esteem) but little Katie being encouraged to play. That's really the mission, isn't it? Encouraging  our customers to enjoy the benefits of music.

    So, now I'm thinking of a side business.. Selling "piano fairy dust". Operators are standing by ready to take your orders! :-)



    -------------------------------------------
    David Estey, RPT
    www.EsteyPiano.com
    Piano Tuners Sales Tips for the week. FREE! Sign up here:
    http://coolstuffformusicians.com/fine-tuning-your-salesmanship
    Creating Harmony in a World filled with Discord.
    1-800-ON A PIANO (662-7426)
    dave@esteypiano.com
    -------------------------------------------


    Original Message


  • 34.  RE: Career Decision

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-28-2015 14:14
    Dale, it seems to me that "spiritual" is just the right word here, if we use it correctly to distinguish from that which is purely material.  We get paid well to do our work, but the satisfactions really do run deeper than financial compensation alone.

    For those who haven't read it, I highly recommend Shop Class As Soulcraft: An Inquiry Into The Value Of Work by Matthew B. Crawford (2009).  It's an insightful meditation on the nature of skilled work and the value it brings to those who practice it.

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    Kent Burnside, RPT
    Franklin TN
    615.430.0653
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    Original Message


  • 35.  RE:Career Decision

    Posted 03-01-2015 16:56
    Does anyone take advantage of the health insurance through PTG and what are your experiences with it?
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    Scott Smith
    Louisa KY
    606-638-3223
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    Original Message


  • 36.  RE: Career Decision

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-01-2015 22:31
    Scott

    There is no health insurance through the PTG. The PTG does have an agreement with an independent insurance agency to sell primarily tool and bailey insurance, designed specifically for piano tuners. That agency also sells health insurance, if you need it. But it is no different than health insurance you can buy through a local agency. (In fact, I think federal law prohibits insurance companies in one state to sell health insurance to individuals in another state).

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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    Original Message