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  • 1.  leather key bushing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-15-2016 12:14

    Hi-

    I wasn't getting much activity on this list and just noticed that I had to re-subscribe.  Interesting.  Anyway, I'm wondering how many of you think it's worth the trouble the keep leather bushings in a restoration.  We're doing a Bosendorfer 200 in the shop and I'm not too concerned about the rate of wear using our normal felt, but we have gone to significant trouble already getting OEM parts and bass strings direct from the factory for this job. We don't have any other pianos like this in our inventory.  At some point previously the original leather was already replaced with felt.  Do you think there is any noticeable difference to the player?  

    thanks,

    Dennis. 

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    Dennis Johnson, R.P.T.
    St. Olaf College
    Music Dept.
    Northfield, MN 55337
    sta2ned@stolaf.edu
    (507) 786-3587
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  • 2.  RE: leather key bushing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-22-2016 10:36

    I'm not a big fan of leather. Maybe in a high-use institutional setting they may hold up better than felt so that is probably the main advantage. The dra back is more noise and friction than felt. With good felt, proper fit and lubrication, felt can feel snug yet smooth as butter. I don't believe you can get that same result with leather. 

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    Ryan Sowers
    Olympia WA
    360-705-4160

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  • 3.  RE: leather key bushing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-22-2016 10:44
    I have found that felt lasts very well, when sufficiently lubricated (impregnated with teflon powder before gluing - or apply to existing felt with a pipe cleaner - and McLube 444 on the key pins). It can also be steam-sized repeatedly as it compresses. I have many pianos with bushings 10 years old and older whose bushings feel like new, in high use situations. After re-bushing virtually the whole inventory (starting nearly 20 years ago), I have yet to need to rebush. I do re-apply teflon when I steam size the bushings, after maybe 5 - 10 years.

    I have no opinion about the feel of leather, as I have never played on a piano with leather bushings (to mu knowledge). I imagine it would depend on the leather and its surface facing the pins. Felt might have more of a shock absorbing function.
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "Since everything is in our heads, we had better not lose them." Coco Chanel




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  • 4.  RE: leather key bushing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-22-2016 10:50

    Fred,

    How are you able to steam them without causing them to come unglued? Does the glue choice have something to do with it (pvc-e for example)?




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  • 5.  RE: leather key bushing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-22-2016 17:03

    Nathan,

    It is just a matter of observation and timing. I always use hot hide glue for bushings, never PVC-E. I watch while applying steam, seeing how much the felt is swelling, and at the first sign of pulling away, I stop steaming. I then immediately insert a heat controlled brass caul (in a soldering iron), placing a corner of the caul into the middle of the bushing, so as to avoid pushing the bushing out of place.

    The simplest way to explain more details is to refer you to a couple videos I posted a few years back. I also discussed this method on the CAUT list several times since I first started using it, probably close to 20 years ago.

    You can, of course, use Profelt if steam worries you. But steam is much faster to do.

    BTW, here is a detailed thread on leather versus felt key bushings.

    And here is what I think is the first thread on the topic of steaming key bushings, 1998. It was the old caut, and the thread is a bit broken, so you can only see a partial quote of my initial post in Avery Todd's post. Unfortunately, the current search function of MyPTG SUCKS, so I can't just search the date and find the actual post. The only choices are times "within one year" or "older." Oh, well.

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    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda

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  • 6.  RE: leather key bushing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2016 12:07

    I am a fan of leather key bushings if the correct leather can be found. That is the rub! I have not looked in some years and so use Fred's protocol for treating felt or, Profelt and telfon powder. The local Bosey Imperial from 1953 still has its original leather key bushings. Still no need to replace them! You can find fortepianos that have the original leather bushings. Some years ago I got a nice small amount of leather from Pianotek. The next time I ordered it was not the same. I tried Renner and did not like the product I received.

    It is not easy to describe what I am looking for in good leather for this application. It needs to be firm but not too stiff. Also smooth but not a high polish. Perhaps I will go on the hunt again some time soon!

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    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]

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  • 7.  RE: leather key bushing

    Posted 09-23-2016 12:52

    I think Jurgen carries bushing leather.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page

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  • 8.  RE: leather key bushing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2016 14:28
    Thanks all for the discussion.  I did remember this topic came up previously so was it fun to read through those posts as well and thanks for the link.  At this point I didn't have a lot of time to invest on finding the perfect leather, and longevity is really not my concern here. I was basically wondering if the additional friction we are warned of regarding leather is noticeable enough to the player. We decided to use our good, familiar felt and the job is done.  Maybe next time....  !

    ps. Oh, ......major delays and mix ups regarding OEM factory parts from Vienna.  @#$!

    thanks again,

    Dennis Johnson
    St. Olaf College



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  • 9.  RE: leather key bushing

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-23-2016 15:39

    Good choice--sometimes it is just not worth the extra time/energy, etc..... And we can relate on the mix-ups! Rackin frackin rackin frackin......

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    [Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
    [Staff Techician]
    [Texas Tech Univ]
    [Lubbock] [TX]
    [8067783962]

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