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electric piano lab

  • 1.  electric piano lab

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-23-2016 10:24

    I have recently been given the responsibility of overseeing the electronic piano lab (lucky me - it had been handled by the group piano prof in the past, but she retired, and her successor doesn't want to do it, and we have a new chair). So I'd like some advice on how to go about this, from those with some experience.

    My assumption is that essentially this is a cycling operation, replacement on a schedule. So my first question is how long do these last, on a practical basis (barring vandalism). 10 years? 15 years?

    Our lab is almost all Roland. Any thoughts on that? Preferences for other makes? Particular models?

    Seems like people who repair these things have become as rare as hens teeth. Not that there seems to be much repair per se, just diagnosis and replacement of major parts, if they are still available. Is that about right? Anyone successful in finding a reliable repair person?

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: electric piano lab

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-23-2016 12:02
    Edited by Nathan Monteleone 08-23-2016 12:04

    I used to play gigs with an RD-600 stage piano. I am not sure how similar they are to what you have but far and away the most common problem I had was that the weighted "hammer" under the key would break, causing the key to not repeat. Replacing them was pretty simple once you figured out which screwed actually needed to be removed to get the thing open.

    Not sure if Roland beefed up the action on later models, but if not you'll want to keep a stash of replacements on hand. Sometimes you can get away with CA or epoxying them back together too, if you decide it's worth the time.

    ------------------------------
    Nathan Monteleone
    Fort Worth TX
    817-675-9494
    nbmont@gmail.com



  • 3.  RE: electric piano lab

    Posted 08-23-2016 12:56
    Check out MITATechs.org

    Sent from my iPad





  • 4.  RE: electric piano lab

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-23-2016 15:00
    Closest MITA techs are Denver and Tucson. Not likely to cover New Mexico.
    Fred Sturm
    fssturm@comcast.net
    www.artoftuning.com
    http://fredsturm.net
    "Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." -Gustav Mahler




  • 5.  RE: electric piano lab

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-23-2016 15:12

    Sorry man!  I avoided that like a Hen with teeth ;>).( that was a funny reference, Fred!)  We always had some people both at UNL and USC who took care of them.  I think, they last about 10-12 years at best.  They are usually cheaper to replace than rebuild. And, when you rebuild one, it's obsolete anyway, so new technology always rules in the university setting and usually funds for it.

    Good Luck

    Paul

    ------------------------------
    Paul T. Williams RPT
    Director of Piano Services
    School of Music
    813 Assembly St
    University of South Carolina
    Columbia, SC 29208
    pwilliams@mozart.sc.edu



  • 6.  RE: electric piano lab

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-23-2016 15:21
    I'm not planning to go into the electric repair business, just oversee the inventory and contract out any repair work that might be needed. I took a quick look at the lab, with 24 instruments, and see that half were replaced about 5 years ago - all are fine - and the other half are 15 - 25 years old. So the obvious first step is to replace the old ones, maybe in two waves. Half the old ones have definite problems, the other half seem reasonable for now. 

    I do see that "replacing a broken hammer" (plastic hammer emulating part) is not too difficult or time-consuming, plenty of Youtube videos show you how, so I might do a bit of that as needed.

    The real problem here is that nobody has actually been in charge of managing the inventory, it has just been a matter of crisis to crisis, with patch up work in between. 
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein












  • 7.  RE: electric piano lab

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-23-2016 16:18

    I was able to squeeze out that politically correct saying that I don't service anything that plugs in.  I never had training in Disklaviers either and the local piano store had a "guy" who did it on the cheap. We don't have any hear at USC which is a good thing, I guess.

    I'm as clean as a new baby's just wiped butt, I guess ;>)

    Paul

    ------------------------------
    Paul T. Williams RPT
    Director of Piano Services
    School of Music
    813 Assembly St
    University of South Carolina
    Columbia, SC 29208
    pwilliams@mozart.sc.edu



  • 8.  RE: electric piano lab

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-23-2016 17:35

    Paul,

    You're just full of little sayings today.  You are:  Slicker than deer guts on a door knob.

    ------------------------------
    Tim Coates
    Sioux Falls SD



  • 9.  RE: electric piano lab

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-23-2016 17:57
    Fred,

    This job fell to me early on here at Humboldt.  The first iteration in the early 90s of our 26 keyboard lab was Yamaha Clavinovas--and they went for about 15 years, as you surmised.  In that time, I actually did replace a couple contact rails in these, but only because after getting info from Yamaha about it, found it was pretty straightforward mechanical procedures. 

    About 10 years ago, the lab was "refreshed" with Roland FP2 instruments, and they have never caused any problems, though the "conferencing" system hub has developed glitches, largely due, I suspect, to the fact that despite my repeated requests, the instructors never turn the system off when they finish a class.  We will either refresh again at some point in the near future, or if possible, I will send the conferencing hub to Roland for a check up and repair.  The instructors frequently bypass the system by having students plug phones directly into the keyboards themselves, so the conferencing system is often irrelevant to the teaching efforts there.  I would definitely recommend Roland keyboards, based on their track record here.
     
    Other than that, my job consists mainly of keeping a supply of properly working headphones to pass out (which have a definite lifespan with the kind of use they get), cleaning keyboards periodically, and storing away headphones and pedals during the summer months when the lab is not in use.  Pretty low effort stuff.  It will also be up to me to do the initial research when refreshment time comes, so I would be interested in what other recommendations you get.

    Hope that helps.


    Greg Granoff
    Humboldt State U.





  • 10.  RE: electric piano lab

    Posted 08-24-2016 09:45

    Hey Fred,

    I worked on keyboards from early in their development and did warranty work for Yamaha, Kurzweil and Suzuki. I would recommend establishing a relationship with the dealer who supplies them. They should have some sort of protocol for repairs. In the keyboard world it's easier to ship them in for repair usually, as Greg said, if local techs are not available. The key weight problem is fixable as you discovered. In my experience replacing the assembly in toto lasts the longest. When I was active in that business, Fatar made keyboards for most of the manufacturers.

    Bill Erhke from Dallas does go out that far but he specializes in Rodgers church organs. They are owned by Roland but operate as a separate company, as far as I know.

    Good luck,

    Dale

    ------------------------------
    Dale Probst
    Registered Piano Technician
    Wichita Falls TX
    dale@wardprobst.com



  • 11.  RE: electric piano lab

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-24-2016 09:38

    It has been our experience that a more overriding determination of when the keyboards need to be replaced is not as much how long will they last but when can you get the best trade in value. Digital keyboards become dated in a very short period of time. We learned our local dealer would give us the highest trade value if done within 5 years. The cost to replace and upgrade was very small and the maintenance cost was virtually nothing. The dealer loves to have a "university used keyboard sale." In fact, one dealer wanted to turn them every two years giving us trade in value that was high enough that we could not have rented them for less. If a lab fee were charged it could almost make the cost of the instruments zero.






  • 12.  RE: electric piano lab

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-24-2016 12:40

    I too am involved with providing input as to replacing our current lab with new instruments.

    Very interested in the 'trade in' program Keith had arranged with the local dealer.

    At the time our university's first purchased a digital lab I was the Kawai dealer. I offered a great deal on wooden keys and nice action keyboard, but with only 12 or so sounds-"plain jane" so to speak. IMO perfect for a lab that is mainly used to teach non piano players basic skills. The University opted to get top of the line Yamaha Clavinovas with auto drums, single finger, 300 sounds, etc. These features were never (very rarely) used at all. 

    My question to the group is, what basic instruments are being used in these labs? Plain Jane type keyboards or instruments with 'bells and whistles'?

    Michael Hagen RPT

    Sonoma State University

    Rohnert Park CA

    hagen@sonoma.edu

    ------------------------------
    Michael Hagen
    Rohnert Park CA
    707-664-9857



  • 13.  RE: electric piano lab

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 08-24-2016 14:12

    I'm definitely of the "plain Jane" philosophy, though it is almost impossible to find something without countless useless features. At this point I am leaning toward Roland F-140r. No particular Roland bias other than the fact that we already have a conferencing hub that works with them (the thing that allows the teacher to listen to each piano individually), and that is what we have had since the old Wurlitzers bit the dust.  From what I have seen, it seems that the choices are basically Yamaha and Roland for this type of setup. 

    Looking at our existing inventory, it seems they are starting to break "hammers" at 13 years old (those are the newest old ones, remainder all purchased 5 years ago). I pulled a few hammers, and they are all cracking. Replacements run $6 each for the part, meaning about $600 for a complete replacement (unless there is a quantity discount available somewhere - the source I found is Full Compass). And by that time they are developing other issues, like notes that blast out at you, which I guess would mean replacing sensor strips or something. Bottom line being that replacing a few of these hammers is probably as far as I would consider going prior to replacement.

    So at this point I am looking at establishing a 12 year cycle, purchasing 2 a year for our 24 instrument lab, at a current price of about $1100. An interesting newish (I guess) feature is that these pianos can be "twinned" - the keyboard split in half with each half at the same pitch, meaning that two student could play at the same time on the same piano (obviously limited in range, but enough for beginners). That might be especially useful for our "Music Prep School," Saturdays, where children are taught all sorts of music lessons in our music department facilities (community outreach, opportunity for music ed students to make money and get experience, etc.)

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda