Discussion: View Thread

Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

  • 1.  Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2015 16:43

    Seeing the post inquiring about how best to apply CA glue to bridge pins reminded me that I wanted to consult the Oracle of Albuquerque about how best to apply non-weaponized (non-aerosol to you civilians) McLube to key pins. I am nearing the end of my supply of McLube in spray cans and starting to use the straight liquid version on uprights (where the spray has always posed challenges). 

    So Fred, you spoke of this in a class a while back. Do you use an eye dropper, syringe, an upright hammer shank... what have you found to be the most efficacious way to apply liquid McLube to key pins?

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 2.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2015 17:17
      |   view attached

    Bent pipecleaner, both sides at once. Photo attached.

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------




  • 3.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2015 18:42

    Thanks!

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------




  • 4.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Posted 10-08-2015 20:42
    It's been reported a couple of times in the past that bushings wear
    faster with McLube than with Protek CLP. So I wonder why the McLube choice.
    Ron N




  • 5.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2015 20:58
    They must have been referring to the other McLube. The McLube 444, dry film lubricant is what we all (hopefully) use for keypins, etc. Protek CLP is great for other things but I can't imagine it being superior to 444 the dry film stuff. This stuff is sliiiiiiiick!!
    Kevin




  • 6.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Posted 10-08-2015 22:04
    It was likely the 1700 that Player Piano Co used to sell. Clear, solvent
    based. The difference between that and the 444 seems to be the solvent.

    In any case, the report was that Protek CLP made bushings last a good
    50% longer than whichever flavor of McLube being used. This wasn't all
    that long ago. No, it wasn't the gray stuff.
    Ron N




  • 7.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2015 22:39

    The problem with anonymous "reports" like this is that they lack all the details that really matter. Precisely what was applied to what and how? 

    As a matter of unvarying policy, for the past 10-15 years I have been applying McLube 444 to bearing points of all key pins, using a saturated bent pipe cleaner to assure both sides of each pin are thoroughly coated. I have, in addition, applied powdered teflon to all key bushings, also using a folded pipe cleaner (to get the full surface of each side of each bushing). I have applied this double protocol to all brand new pianos, to all reconditions, etc. for the past 10-15 years. I experimented with various other things, and this is what I settled on, as being very quick to do and giving me excellent results, including lack of wear and slower packing of felt.

    So there you have my detailed account. I'd be very happy to have other detailed accounts of other techniques, but a vague report of "Protek CLP made bushings last a good 50% longer than whichever flavor of McLube being used" doesn't really tell me anything useful, without knowing who made the report, who did the test, how and where the materials were applied, etc.

    A lot of people try to take shortcuts, want to lube without removing the keys, for instance. If that's what you want to do, Protek CLP is probably your best bet, as it will go where you need it if applied well. McLube would be a very bad choice for that kind of application, as it would mostly wick into the cloth and harden, losing the resilience and noise/knock reduction. For all I know the "report" is based on such an "experiment."

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------




  • 8.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Posted 10-08-2015 23:21
    It was reported by real cauts, on the official list of the time, under
    their own names. This isn't a personal hallucination. I didn't bother to
    record the time, date, and name of the contributor at the time, and I
    don't really need the bullshit now. Forget I mentioned it.
    Ron N




  • 9.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-09-2015 10:16
    Well, maybe I shouldn't have jumped on you, Ron, but I'm tired of this kind of "report," that comes from nobody is certain where. I have read posts that question the use of McLube, myself, and beyond the environmental ones, none of them have seemed to have any real substance, beyond what the fact that it isn't something to be applied to felt or leather when that material is used as a shock absorber and noise reducer. I've asked, every time that I can remember, and either got no response, or a "I heard that so and so reported that." I just don't understand this notion that some anonymous authority with no details is more believable than one's own experience. Maybe whoever has been writing these posts will come forward with something solid.

    I've written about this subject a lot over the years, but maybe it could use summarizing again. There were a lot of recommendations for thing like polishing key pins (Newton Hunt obsessed on that), some said you should spray Prolube on the pins, some said you should apply either powdered teflon or Protek CLP to the bushings. I started applying teflon powder to one side of the bushing cloth before all rebushing jobs, polishing pins and spraying them with Prolube. And I'd apply CLP when there were squeaks and I wasn't taking things apart.

    Polishing pins is time consuming, and I got to wondering about the Prolube, whether it actually stayed put. I decided to evaporate some, also some CLP and some McLube, in bottle caps. The Prolube and CLP never dried, stayed liquid as long as I had those caps around, a few weeks anyway. So I thought it was likely it would be rubbed off the pins in pretty short order. OTOH, the McLube dried rapidly to a film that stuck fairly well (not that easy to scrape off with a fingernail). I reasoned that much of it might rub off eventually onto the surface of the bushing cloth, but it would just add to the lubrication, and some might penetrate any microscopic cracks and pits in the pins. 

    So I decided to drop polishing pins, and simply check them for any roughness (replace all of those), and apply McLube. I also started a protocol for new pianos. I had been called to try to eliminate squeaks from a high school choir piano, a less than 10 year old P22. I found squeaks everywhere there was rubbing, key bushings, capstan to wipp, spoons and lift rod to damper lever felt. I thought "They should have lubed these places as dealer prep," and then it occurred to me to apply the "should" to myself. So I decided to get with it, and come up with a fairly complete but quick procedure for all my new pianos.

    I pull the action, pull a section of keys and lay them on the neighbor keys. Apply McLube to all the exposed key pins, the areas that will rub against the bushings. Ream the bottom holes with a parallel reamer .001" larger than the key pin and follow with the taper tool to a standard depth and pressure (determined by experiment). Apply teflon powder to all key bushings, following with a heated caul (voltage regulated soldering iron) - this is done a handful of about six keys at a time, teflon front bushings, rotate wrist, teflon balance bushings, rotate wrist, same for the heated cauls, two sizes if the pin sizes are different (two voltage regulated soldering irons).

    With the keys all nicely sized and lubed, I apply powdered teflon to the wipp cushion felt, and the damper lever felt (push back on the levers to get access, insinuate a pipe cleaner), also lube the lift hinge felts with CLP. Total of 30 - 45 minutes including removal and replacement of case parts, and the effect on longevity of parts is pretty astonishing compared to doing nothing and watching deterioration. (Grands will include knuckles and key end felts as well as key frame surfaces that rub, pedal rod guide bushings, etc)

    I also include this protocol in all my regular recondition jobs. Since I have been doing this, I have been pleasantly surprised at how little rebushing I am doing. Used to be several a year. Now it is pretty rare. I am more likely simply to do a bushing steam job (including McLube pins and teflon bushings), and find this holds for a few years. 

    All this said, I confess that I maintain a certain amount of skepticism about how much the McLube application contributes, whether it stays on/in the pin surface. Maybe it helps significantly, maybe not, but it seems like a reasonable element to include and only takes a tiny bit of time. I happened to have an upright in the "shop" with the keys out right now, so I timed it: 2.5 minutes, not a major investment.
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "Since everything is in our heads, we had better not lose them." Coco Chanel






  • 10.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-09-2015 12:53

    I'll add one more little detail to the protocol: I apply McLube to the capstans as well. I figure the coating will retard oxidation and probably also delay the buildup of black gunk that occurs over time. 

    I am tuning a Steinway B from a heavily used classroom, rehearsals and often enough practice in a solid schedule 8 am - 8pm, one of the most popular pianos. I checked my database, and see that I rebushed in 2002. That was before I was using the database, so I don't have details, don't know if I was McLubing pins quite that far back. In any case, I steam sized and re-lubed in 2006 (at that point I did apply McLube to the pins, plus teflon to the bushings). I went through the action thoroughly again in 2008, 2012, and 2015, and noted that the bushings did not need steam sizing (each time they got re-lubed). The keyboard feels like new, no wobbles or knocks.

    This has become my typical experience. Practice grands are likely to need steam sizing every 5 - 6 years (not that they are particularly bad at that point, but the bushing are beginning to pack and knock/wobble). I don't know about longevity yet, since I haven't rebushed one since I started this protocol.

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------




  • 11.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-09-2015 11:24

    I too recall the article from some time ago on the old list format and have used protek clp on key pins ever since with excellent results and good wear characteristics. I don't bother with powdered Teflon on the bushing cloth.


    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------




  • 12.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-09-2015 12:28

    Ron and all, I personally am not denying (nor is Fred I think) that Protek CLP is a good product. Personally, I have found it to be very short-lived for key pins, but a good product for many uses and occasions. 

    Question; for all those who have not PERSONALLY tried using McLube 444 Dry Film Lubricant: would there be any way possible that you could try some of this product for yourself? Touch it, try it feel it for yourself? See how it works? 

    I started buying it in the small bottle that Schaff sell with the dobber attached to the cap. It's VERY AFFORDABLE. Don Mannino demonstrated this at a convention about (7 to 8 maybe?) years ago in a concert prep class. There were several places he suggested using this when trying to prep a piano FAST! Like the concert is about to happen. It's you, the piano and very little time to work with.

    I now just refill the Schaff bottle, which I keep very handy, with the larger can from Pianotek, and then just replace the little bottle once in a while. 

    I too would like to see a full report before believing that a study shows in particular that Protek CLP is DEFINITELY superior to "McLube 444 Dry Film Lubricant" in particular. There has been SO MUCH confusion about whether on not we are talking about "Prolube" or "McLube whatever" -- that I would just want to be SURE we are comparing the correct products. Especially when my personal experience, and definitely Fred's EXTENSIVE work, observation, etc.etc. has shown differently over such a long period of time. 

    ------------------------------
    Kevin Fortenberry
    Registered Piano Technician
    Lubbock TX
    806-778-3962
    ------------------------------




  • 13.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Posted 10-09-2015 12:42
    Kevin,
    I'm not on a crusade of any sort, nor am I arguing with anyone. I
    reported the results of salaried full time cauts in real world
    situations as they reported it to us on the list. This was after they
    used both products over a period of time and evaluated the results in
    high usage situations. I'm not and have never been employed by an
    institution and this is entirely a non event for me.
    Ron N




  • 14.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-09-2015 12:50

    No worries Ron. I understand. But have you ever tried this stuff? I tell you what, I'll send you a bottle from Schaff. This way you can at least see how it works and how if feels on the key pins. I know this is a little unusual, but I just have a feeling you will like this product. I didn't think I was on a crusade either--perhaps I am. <grin> Kevin

    ------------------------------
    Kevin Fortenberry
    Registered Piano Technician
    Lubbock TX
    806-778-3962
    ------------------------------




  • 15.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Posted 10-09-2015 13:43
    No, don't. I've used the old 1700, but not the 444. I don't have any
    real use for either. It hasn't come up in field service often enough to
    stock the stuff, and as I said, I don't have a stable of instruments I
    pamper (or salvage) on a daily basis in an institutional setting. Keep
    it and use it where it will do some good.
    Ron N




  • 16.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-09-2015 23:20

    I can't speak for Ron but I can say that I've tried all products on pins:  McLube (mold release formula), Protek  CLP and TFL 50 dry teflon aerosol.  In the short term I can tell no difference.  They all effectively lubricate the pins.  In the long run I can't say from personal experience that one is preferable over the other in terms of longevity and neither can anyone else contributing on this topic, in spite of all the pontificating. All "evidence" so far is ancecdotal and therefore relatively meaningless.  I continue to use Protek CLP because it doesn't stink or get sprayed mostly into the air.  A manual application of the products is possible, of course, but it seems to me that a product that was designed for lubricating the interaction between metal and felt makes more sense than mold release or weaponized powdered teflon.  Why not just treat the bushings directly with powdered teflon, if you're going go that route.  If you spray it on the pins it just gets transferred to the bushings anyway.  Similarly point for the tops of capstans.  

    Must be a slow news day--except it isn't!!!


    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------




  • 17.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Posted 10-10-2015 13:54
    I can speak for Ron. I carry Teflon, VJlube, and the silicone/naphtha
    mix. I find each to be effective and predictable, and haven't seen a
    need for anything else. I've used McLube and the Protek products, and
    found them to be good products, but no more effective than my old
    standards. Simplicity works as well for me as anything.
    Ron N




  • 18.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2015 21:06

    Ron,

    I'm not sure what source you are referring to.

    In any case, I use McLube 444 on keypins, and powdered teflon on the bushings themselves. It has been a successful combination over the many years I have been doing it on all my pianos, probably at least 10 -15. I haven't needed to replace a set of bushings I used that protocol on in that time - I have done some steam-sizing, which has taken care of the compression of felt. I do check pins carefully for any sign of nicks or roughness.


    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------




  • 19.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Posted 10-09-2015 20:24

    All this speculative preference as to what material is best for lubrication is irrelevant until we hear from the likes of professional key restorers such as Michael Morvan, who I believe does not advocate the use of certain lubricating materials on felt bushings.

    I know I have to deal with botched RPT action jobs but dealing with contaminated mortices is another matter.


    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page



  • 20.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-09-2015 21:46

    I guess it is possible that saturating key bushings with CLP or perhaps Profelt might have some impact on gluing in new bushings, though I doubt it would actually make it impossible to glue them successfully with hot hide glue. In any case, the use of powdered teflon on the bushing surface and McLube on the key pin would definitely have zero effect, no material would touch the wood of the mortise - or are you speculating it would? That this would constitute a "botched RPT key job?" ;-)

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------




  • 21.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-09-2015 22:46

    This is a very pertinent discussion for me. In fact, just last week I was thinking I should ask the list about the differences between the Protek products and McLube 444. Today I serviced the Ritmüller with the persistent squeaky knuckles that I had asked about several months ago. Sure enough, two knuckles were squeaking again. I have Tefloned the heck out of those knuckles, so I am thinking that the factory lubricant on the jack tip and repetition lever top were inadequate. The Prolube that I applied previously didn't seem to stick, so perhaps McLube will do a better job.

    One of the main reasons why I have stuck with the Protek products is because I have heard that McLube will harden felt. Is this an issue when applying it to keypins when the punchings are still there? It is also harder for me to get, as I cannot order it from the American supply houses, as it's considered hazmat. In fact, I won a big bottle last year in Atlanta and had to give it away because I couldn't take it across the border.

    ------------------------------
    Peter Stevenson RPT
    P.S. Piano Service
    Prince George BC
    250-562-5358
    ps@pspianoservice.com
    ------------------------------




  • 22.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-10-2015 14:49

    Peter,

    In answer to one of your questions, McLube will harden felt - it is a hard substance in a vehicle that flashes quickly. So you should not apply it to the key pins with the keys in place, as it will be absorbed into the felt. For that application, I would use Protek CLP.

    McLube 444 is sold as a lubricant (scroll down, it is the second product). The Mclube company also sells mold release formulas. McLube 444 is quite similar to the substance Steinway uses to impregnate action center bushing felt: it solidifies the material somewhat and provides lubricity. I do apply it to felt in one instance, brushing it on the surface of understring felt when restringing. I wouldn't do that on knuckle surfaces, because it would probably lead to noise. I have applied it to action center bushings in a couple instances, when they felt spongy but not really loose enough to repin, and it helped.

    Permalon and Emralon, sold in spray form by Schaff last I looked, is good for jack and rep tops - that's what the free stuff on Steinways is, essentially. I vastly prefer that coating to graphite, as graphite transfers very rapidly to the leather, and always develops squeaks in my experience. (With Permalon, or polished bare plastic as in Kawai and WNG, the knuckles stay pretty pristine, and I have never had squeaks). I'm not sure that spraying Permalon on those surfaces (with a masking devise - I cut a slot in a piece of cardboard to reveal the area to spray) would work over graphite, might not stick.

    Also, if you have squeaky knuckles with graphite transferred to the surface, you need to brush or lightly sand if needed to remove it, before applying teflon. Brushing usually does it, but not always. Light on the sandpaper, as you don't want to remove any more leather than absolutely necessary, but it seems like the only way in some instances (I have done that with knuckles that were graphite greased, and managed to get some more life out of them).

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------




  • 23.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-10-2015 15:47

    I don't think Schaff carries Permalon any more.  It doesn't show up on-line or in their 2014 price list.  Here is a link to the company that ostensibly supplies it:

    http://russprodco.com/Permalon.php

    I say "ostensibly", because the ownership trail has been quite convoluted, as per:

    http://www.decc.com/acheson.php

    Permalon seems to have more adhering characteristics than McLube, though also seems to develop more dimensional thickness.  According to the old Schaff catalog description, it can be sprayed into a container to be applied by brush, but it is very volatile (carrier evaporates very quickly) and it IS an aerosol spray, with all that that implies, for health and environment.  A year or so ago, I was trying to look into obtaining  the solvent, to be able to mix up batches of the liquid but product is no longer available in small quantities.  

    The Russell Products product comes in 12oz and 3.5oz cans

    ------------------------------
    David Skolnik
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565
    ------------------------------




  • 24.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-10-2015 17:05

    Emralon is seemingly very similar to permalon, and is now known as BONDERITE S-FN 330, apparently made by Henkel Locktite. However, as far as I can see you have to buy industrial quantities. i believe that is what Steinway uses to coat jacks and reps.

    For the squeaky knuckles, you might try sanding the jack and rep tops with very fine paper, going down to 1000 grit or so, then rubbing to a polish, maybe rub in some powdered teflon. I seem to remember seeing bare wood in this application in some European make, and it worked well.

    I don't think you need to worry about the hardening effect of McLube on the felt front punchings with pipe cleaner application. To the extent you might get some on the punchings, it will be in the area that the bushings contact, and they are usually recessed. But I do try not to quite hit the punchings. I hold the pipe cleaner in thumb and finger, and the fifth finger is in contact with the keybed or workbench to act as a positioning/control help.

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------




  • 25.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-10-2015 17:14

    I just noticed, as I was about to close the McLube tab on my browser, that the first item on the page, MAC 422, was water based. Otherwise it seems to have the same characteristics as 444. Longer drying time presumably, but doing away with the solvents would remove my qualms about using it, and it would cease to violate hazmat regs. But where to purchase it? Maybe Jurgen wants to buy it in gallons and sell us pints?

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------




  • 26.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-10-2015 18:00

    Any concerns about raising grain or promoting corrosion?

    ------------------------------
    David Skolnik
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565
    ------------------------------




  • 27.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-10-2015 20:11

    David,

    Yes, obviously a water base raises some concerns. However, the description says that drying can be accelerated by heat (it will withstand up to 500F), so following with a heat gun seems like it would do the trick. But experimentation would tell the tale. I would feel pretty confident that key pins would work fine, also the bearing points of springs (using a heat gun if it seemed called for). Painting it on various wood surfaces like the bottom of a keyframe front rail, the side that contacts the spring, etc. would probably be fine as they are hardwoods, and grain rises pretty slowly (again, heat if it seemed needed), but I wouldn't probably want to paint it on a spruce keybed (not that I use McLube there anyway, better to use powdered teflon). 

    All things considered, including the toxic nature of the solvent, I'd be willing to try to make it work. And I think the solvent is what turns a lot of people off, for very understandable reasons.

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
    ------------------------------




  • 28.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-10-2015 16:46

    Thanks, Fred. I wasn't thinking about the applying lubricant while the keys were still in place, but about applying lubricant while the felt punchings were still in place. I suppose you can just be careful about not going all the way down with the pipe cleaner if that is an issue.

    My problem piano has graphite on the jack and repetition lever tops, but I don't think that it has really transferred onto the knuckles. This has been a problem ever since the piano was new, about 4-5 years. And I have tried brushing it, but again the squeaks came back. Perhaps I should look into Permalon . . .



    ------------------------------
    Peter Stevenson RPT
    P.S. Piano Service
    Prince George BC
    250-562-5358
    ps@pspianoservice.com
    ------------------------------




  • 29.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Posted 10-10-2015 16:56
    This was a problem through a period in Schafer & Sons pianos. After
    trying everything possible and a few things that really weren't, the
    only fix was replacing the knuckles.
    Ron N




  • 30.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-10-2015 19:10

    This may very well be the only solution this time, Ron. At this point it seems like there are only two problem notes, so I may go ahead and replace those two knuckles.

    ------------------------------
    Peter Stevenson RPT
    P.S. Piano Service
    Prince George BC
    250-562-5358
    ps@pspianoservice.com
    ------------------------------




  • 31.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Posted 10-10-2015 19:52
    In the Shafers, the rep levers and jack tops were covered with some sort
    of black stuff. Wrong color for graphite, and it even had a slightly
    tacky feel to it. Scrubbing it down with acetone helped some, but never
    quite made it coexist with the knuckles once they started squeaking. I'd
    suggest waiting a bit if you can, to see if any more resume squeaking
    before replacing the two that currently do. I did the set on two or
    three pianos eventually because more started making noise again as time
    went on.
    Ron N




  • 32.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-10-2015 17:10
    Peter, I would try working in Teflon powder into the knuckles. I normally use those small brushes that Pianotek sells. (I think they are less that 5 US dollars for a package. One dozen I believe.) But a piece of old hammer felt, etc would work just great. I have great results with this on many different brands with knuckle squeaks, or even some grands with "knuckle noise". Nothing is 100% permanent but one or two applications of this usually corrects the problem.
    (I would personally apply some of the McLube 444 to the whips as well. It sort of coats over what's there, is colorless and usually keeps anything from transferring to the knuckles. I'm really sorry you are having a hard time getting some of this across the border)
    Hope this helps, Kevin

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 33.  RE: Applying non-weaponized McLube to key pins

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-10-2015 19:08

    Thanks, Kevin. Believe me, I have worked Teflon powder into the knuckles many times, but the squeak keeps coming back. I have put in an order of McLube from a piano supply house in Canada, so we'll see if that helps at all.

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    Peter Stevenson RPT
    P.S. Piano Service
    Prince George BC
    250-562-5358
    ps@pspianoservice.com
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