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Storing spare bass strings..

  • 1.  Storing spare bass strings..

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-24-2015 16:30

    Heya peeps..

    So I recently bought a spare set of D strings and even got some bags of dessicant (sp?) from Uline to use in conjunction with this and my very new harpsichord wire.

    I'm thinking of getting some wide/long pvc piping and setting the D strings in there, but maybe that's kinda silly.

    (Actually it is when I get to thinking about it, but I leave the thought up there for s's and g's..)

    What do you use for your bass string storage?

    At my old job we had a metal storage locker, but I don't have the space for that right now.

    :}
    Strange E

    ------------------------------
    Michelle Stranges
    Western Washington University
    Bellingham, WA
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-24-2015 17:28
    I wouldn't call storing strings in PVC pipe silly. Keeps them straight, and out of harms way, easy to stash so they stay out of your hair. 
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "I am only interested in music that is better than it can be played." Schnabel








  • 3.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-24-2015 23:35
    Yes this is a great idea. I think others have done this. I would buy two caps-one for each end. Glue one end on for the bottom, and then fit the other cap nicely so that you can install and remove fairly easily- for the lid. Hope this makes sense.

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 4.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Posted 11-25-2015 04:58
    When I got a new set of Bass strings for my S&S 'A' (Hamburger) I was advised by the Maker (Gregor Heller) 'HellerBass' , Escherbronn, Germany, to put them on ASAP. Reason: They are wound under tension and storage for lengthy periods under non-tension conditions can seriously impair the sound.
    I hope this is helpful?   Michael   UK





  • 5.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-25-2015 12:05
    Hi, Michael,

    Yes, that was my understanding too, that wound bass strings do not have a long shelf life. But I still had a set of spare bass strings set aside for my performance instruments, stored straight and protected as described. On a few rare occasions, when a bass string would break, it was good to be able to pull one out of the set and put it on quickly. The sound didn't entirely match the others, probably based on age and use of the remainder of the set on the piano (since the maker of the new one was the same), but I could voice around the problem and get it to match. It helped me several times, maybe it might help someone else.

    Kathy




  • 6.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Posted 11-25-2015 12:30

    Why not store them under tension. Not to pitch but it would shorten the stretching time. Wire could be positioned on both sides of a plank to equalize the tension on the panel.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page



  • 7.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Posted 11-25-2015 13:29
    Sheldon Smith experimented with pre-stretching strings some time ago;
    and used them when stringing. That's not the same as trying to do that
    under tension for storage purposes, but, he was (generally) pleased with
    the results. If I can remember the jig that he had set up for that,
    I'll try to describe it. No, no pictures...so, don't ask.

    Kind regards.

    Horace

    On 11/25/2015 9:30 AM, Jon Page via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
    > Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
    >
    >
    > Why not store them under tension. Not to pitch but it would shorten the stretching time. Wire could be positioned on both sides of a plank to equalize the tension on the panel.
    > ------------------------------
    > Regards,
    >
    > Jon Page
    > -------------------------------------------------------------------------
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 11-25-2015 12:04
    > From: Kathy Smith
    > Subject: Storing spare bass strings..
    >
    > Hi, Michael,
    >
    > Yes, that was my understanding too, that wound bass strings do not have a long shelf life. But I still had a set of spare bass strings set aside for my performance instruments, stored straight and protected as described. On a few rare occasions, when a bass string would break, it was good to be able to pull one out of the set and put it on quickly. The sound didn't entirely match the others, probably based on age and use of the remainder of the set on the piano (since the maker of the new one was the same), but I could voice around the problem and get it to match. It helped me several times, maybe it might help someone else.
    >
    > Kathy
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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  • 8.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-25-2015 16:21

    With respect to bass strings not holding up under storage, there was an interesting thread a while back on Pianotech, which unfortunately got caught up in Bradley Snook issues, that touched on this question quite a bit. Here is a quote from Francisco Motta, a Brazilian tech who makes his own bass strings with a pretty fancy machine that allows him to control the tension pretty precisely while winding (he really is bad at English, relying on Google translate or something, so try to figure out what a few of the words might have got mangled from):

    I'll get into this conversation, although difficulties with perfect English.
    I have reflected on this topic a few months, and also threw this issue, 
    related to the manufacturing tension, string bass.
    I think this is the main secret of the string quality.
    I have made bass strings and since built a machine with control of 
    stretching (as well as a constant stretch), I managed to make amazing 
    strings.
    My logic is as follows:
    If the tension of manufacturing is up to 5% below the nominal tension on 
    the piano:
    Excellent work, but must be installed immediately.
    If the tension is 20% less:
    Stock a few days and do not give ties to save
    If the tension is 40% lower:
    Stock more time (orverseas shippings for example) and give two or three 
    turns in the instalation.

    The thread, should anyone care to wade through it, is http://my.ptg.org/communities/community-home/digestviewer/viewthread?GroupId=43&MID=647846&tab=digestviewer#bm9 The general conclusion, on that particular topic, seems to be that some bass string makers (probably Heller among them) tend to wind strings at a high tension. This gives better tonal results, but only if you install them pretty promptly. So if you aren't going to install them so promptly, it might be better to get strings wound at a lower tension. I guess this has to do with elongation of the core wire during the high tension winding process, and subsequent relaxation, which affects how the windings hold to the core, or how they are spaced or something. 
    An open question (for me) is what are the procedures of the various bass string makers: who winds at high tension, who at lower tension, to what extent to they tailor that tension to the actual tension at pitch, etc. (in the etc. category, my guess is that Arledge puts a twist into the string before winding, hence the "no rattles" motto - the original twist serving to tend to pull the windings tighter, eliminating the need to twist).

    Complex subject, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of clarity or truly reliable information out there.

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda



  • 9.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-25-2015 19:56

    I wholeheartedly agree with Kathy and was about to say the same thing. I just ordered a whole new set of stock bass strings (Mapes) for the SEVEN Steinway Ds under my care. If a bass string breaks on one of these babies, at least I'm prepared. HOWEVER, it is really good to know this, so that we can plan accordingly, and always use fresh ones when possible. 

    Thanks for making this known, Kevin

    ------------------------------
    Kevin Fortenberry
    Registered Piano Technician
    Lubbock TX
    806-778-3962



  • 10.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-25-2015 15:43

    I agree with Fred.  I carry some universal strings in PVC pipe in my vehicle for emergency use until I get replacement strings.  Usually when I am doing a restring job when the strings arrive I take them out of the box and hang them in the shop until I am ready for them.

     

    Clarence Zeches, RPT




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  • 11.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-25-2015 23:59

    It would be nice to know what the practices are about wound string storage time/shelf life at various piano manufacturers. Sounds like a great research project for The PTG Journal. Maybe the PTG foundation could fund a suitable author to be able to spend the time to get responses from as many manufacturers as possible.

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    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431



  • 12.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Posted 11-26-2015 04:45

    Yes, I too have a set of hexacore spare covered strings - but they're only for uprights as they're not long enough for grands. If a string breaks on a grand it usually breaks at the wrest-pin and it's possible, usually, to tie on a bit of identical core stuff. One very good reason for saving the cut-offs from a restringing Bass job. I keep a lot in my kit.      Michael   UK

    ------------------------------
    Michael Gamble
    semi retired
    Brighton
    01273813612



  • 13.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Posted 11-26-2015 09:30

    Gregor Heller on the topic;

    Hi Dan!

    Yes ... it is true ..... because during production of the string inside the winding machine is stretched .... and after putting the string out of the winding machine the string ( core wire and copper winding ) becomes 8 mm shorter.
    So there is tension "between" copper winding and steel core or better : the copper winding is pressed together.

    We recommend to put the strings as fast as possible after the production on the piano ... and if possible not longer than 3-6 months later.

    We had customers ordering the strings on the day the piano arrived in the workshop ..... but making the repair 1-2 years later ... or have to wait for the painting over 6 months .....
    .. in those cases we had often some strings to replace ....

    But sometimes even after 2 years ... all strings were fine after installation ... so it is not safe that some strings will buzz or rattle .... but the probability is rising after a few weeks ....


    To minimize this it is best to hang the strings on a nail on a wall .... and please do not let the strings curled inside the card box for a long time ...


    Best
    Gregor

    ------------------------------
    Dan Silverwood
    www.silverwoodpianos.com
    http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/



  • 14.  RE: Storing spare bass strings..

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 11-27-2015 10:55

    I know this will probably become yet additional evidence of my preference for armchair speculation rather than first-hand empirical evidence gathering, but I'll allow it to be my stand-in for living on the edge:

    If there is an 8mm differential between the core wire under tension and untensioned, what is physically happening to that 'Heller' string once it comes off the machine, initially and over time?

     Is there movement between the core and the windings?

     Do the windings deform from the compressive stress of the relaxing core wire?  My assumption is that these strings would not hang as straight  as non-tensioned strings.  

    What is the actual difference in applied tension between these and more standard (?) methods, since even these must have some amount of tension?

    Assuming the same materials employed, what is the anticipated tonal benefit with this approach, and what produces it?

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    David Skolnik
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565