Discussion: View Thread

We have several sets of Yamaha U1 hammers T028700 that have been in storage for a decade or two.  I've installed one set, and intend to install at least another one or two this year.  I also discovered a set installed prior my arrival that showed little indication of any voicing having been done, and that had apparently seen little use since installation.  I did some voicing on this latter set using protocols familiar to me, with reasonable results, but I want to do better.

When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt, but all the same, does Yamaha have a published protocol for voicing these hammers, or for voicing Yamaha hammers in general?

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Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------

Yamaha hammers are very close to Renners. The principles are essentially the same. My own technique for them, and essentially for any hammer that needs to be opened up, is pretty standard and follows Rick Baldassin pretty closely with a few modifications. I have put up a video showing the technique, and showing clearly the fact that the action is on the bench and I am standing while doing it, so I lean the needles in using body weight. A second one shows a closeup of one upright hammer being voiced. The second one is still processing, should be done within a short time. There is some more description in the comments under the video.

-------------------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 12:22
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

We have several sets of Yamaha U1 hammers T028700 that have been in storage for a decade or two.  I've installed one set, and intend to install at least another one or two this year.  I also discovered a set installed prior my arrival that showed little indication of any voicing having been done, and that had apparently seen little use since installation.  I did some voicing on this latter set using protocols familiar to me, with reasonable results, but I want to do better.

When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt, but all the same, does Yamaha have a published protocol for voicing these hammers, or for voicing Yamaha hammers in general?

-------------------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------

Thanks Fred!

-------------------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 13:28
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

Yamaha hammers are very close to Renners. The principles are essentially the same. My own technique for them, and essentially for any hammer that needs to be opened up, is pretty standard and follows Rick Baldassin pretty closely with a few modifications. I have put up a video showing the technique, and showing clearly the fact that the action is on the bench and I am standing while doing it, so I lean the needles in using body weight. A second one shows a closeup of one upright hammer being voiced. The second one is still processing, should be done within a short time. There is some more description in the comments under the video.

-------------------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 12:22
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

We have several sets of Yamaha U1 hammers T028700 that have been in storage for a decade or two.  I've installed one set, and intend to install at least another one or two this year.  I also discovered a set installed prior my arrival that showed little indication of any voicing having been done, and that had apparently seen little use since installation.  I did some voicing on this latter set using protocols familiar to me, with reasonable results, but I want to do better.

When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt, but all the same, does Yamaha have a published protocol for voicing these hammers, or for voicing Yamaha hammers in general?

-------------------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------

Maybe the second one won't hand your hand blocking the needling. :-)

-------------------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

I've known what it means to have my hand blocking the needling.  Usually my thumb.  There is motivation to learn quickly in this area, however.

-------------------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 18:31
From: Jon Page
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

Maybe the second one won't hand your hand blocking the needling. :-)

-------------------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Yes, the second one was set up specifically so you can see better. But the first one does show an important part, the larger picture of it on the bench, me standing, the way the arms are moving. And if you are patient enough to watch to the end ;-) you will see that my hand is not blocking your view of the last hammer I needle.




Original Message------

Maybe the second one won't hand your hand blocking the needling. :-)

-------------------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Floyd wrote:
"When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt..."

Floyd, 

When I took Rick's very fine voicing class, he made the same comment (maybe we were in the same class session, in Atlanta?), but he followed it up by saying that ANY hammer manufacturer's voicing protocol SHOULD include opening up the shoulders to some degree. FYI.

-------------------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 12:22
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

We have several sets of Yamaha U1 hammers T028700 that have been in storage for a decade or two.  I've installed one set, and intend to install at least another one or two this year.  I also discovered a set installed prior my arrival that showed little indication of any voicing having been done, and that had apparently seen little use since installation.  I did some voicing on this latter set using protocols familiar to me, with reasonable results, but I want to do better.

When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt, but all the same, does Yamaha have a published protocol for voicing these hammers, or for voicing Yamaha hammers in general?

-------------------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------

Yes Alan, it was in Atlanta.  Excellent class!

-------------------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 20:18
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

Floyd wrote:
"When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt..."

Floyd, 

When I took Rick's very fine voicing class, he made the same comment (maybe we were in the same class session, in Atlanta?), but he followed it up by saying that ANY hammer manufacturer's voicing protocol SHOULD include opening up the shoulders to some degree. FYI.

-------------------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 12:22
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

We have several sets of Yamaha U1 hammers T028700 that have been in storage for a decade or two.  I've installed one set, and intend to install at least another one or two this year.  I also discovered a set installed prior my arrival that showed little indication of any voicing having been done, and that had apparently seen little use since installation.  I did some voicing on this latter set using protocols familiar to me, with reasonable results, but I want to do better.

When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt, but all the same, does Yamaha have a published protocol for voicing these hammers, or for voicing Yamaha hammers in general?

-------------------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------

Yes, it was a very worthwhile class alright. And those who are fortunate enough to be attending the MARC this week have an opportunity to catch it. This time out, Rick will be teaching it along side another highly accomplished voicer, Richard Davenport.

-------------------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 23:28
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

Yes Alan, it was in Atlanta.  Excellent class!

-------------------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 20:18
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

Floyd wrote:
"When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt..."

Floyd, 

When I took Rick's very fine voicing class, he made the same comment (maybe we were in the same class session, in Atlanta?), but he followed it up by saying that ANY hammer manufacturer's voicing protocol SHOULD include opening up the shoulders to some degree. FYI.

-------------------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 12:22
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

We have several sets of Yamaha U1 hammers T028700 that have been in storage for a decade or two.  I've installed one set, and intend to install at least another one or two this year.  I also discovered a set installed prior my arrival that showed little indication of any voicing having been done, and that had apparently seen little use since installation.  I did some voicing on this latter set using protocols familiar to me, with reasonable results, but I want to do better.

When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt, but all the same, does Yamaha have a published protocol for voicing these hammers, or for voicing Yamaha hammers in general?

-------------------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------

I think Rick's comments are mainly aimed at Steinway hammers, and are just a sort of blanket disclaimer. Certainly hammers vary in density and how they are put together (how layered the felt is, for instance), so they will react differently to a certain extent. But in my experience, a basic deep opening of the shoulders produces a wider range of tone color in all but the softest press of hammers. 


Original Message------

Yes Alan, it was in Atlanta.  Excellent class!

-------------------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 20:18
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

Floyd wrote:
"When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt..."

Floyd, 

When I took Rick's very fine voicing class, he made the same comment (maybe we were in the same class session, in Atlanta?), but he followed it up by saying that ANY hammer manufacturer's voicing protocol SHOULD include opening up the shoulders to some degree. FYI.

-------------------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 12:22
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

We have several sets of Yamaha U1 hammers T028700 that have been in storage for a decade or two.  I've installed one set, and intend to install at least another one or two this year.  I also discovered a set installed prior my arrival that showed little indication of any voicing having been done, and that had apparently seen little use since installation.  I did some voicing on this latter set using protocols familiar to me, with reasonable results, but I want to do better.

When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt, but all the same, does Yamaha have a published protocol for voicing these hammers, or for voicing Yamaha hammers in general?

-------------------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------

As an aside to this thread, here is a photo of a nifty voicing block for needling hammers of an upright.
It is a hardwood block with a sloping ramp on it.  The block raises the hammers and supports them for needling.  As well, the wippen spoons engage the damper arms and move the damper heads downward and out of the way. As you move from hammer to hammer, you slide the block along on the work bench.  The hammers "climb" up the sloping side as you progress, until they reach the flat part, where they then can be needled.

This photo is from André Oorebeek's voicing manual "The Voice of the Piano" which is due to be reprinted this spring/summer.



-------------------------------------------
Jurgen Goering
-------------------------------------------

I think Rick meant that their protocol is applicable to all dense hammers. That is true.

-------------------------------------------
Mario Igrec
http://www.pianosinsideout.com
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 20:18
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

Floyd wrote:
"When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt..."

Floyd, 

When I took Rick's very fine voicing class, he made the same comment (maybe we were in the same class session, in Atlanta?), but he followed it up by saying that ANY hammer manufacturer's voicing protocol SHOULD include opening up the shoulders to some degree. FYI.

-------------------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
-------------------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 04-22-2015 12:22
From: Floyd Gadd
Subject: Yamaha U1 hammer voicing protocol

We have several sets of Yamaha U1 hammers T028700 that have been in storage for a decade or two.  I've installed one set, and intend to install at least another one or two this year.  I also discovered a set installed prior my arrival that showed little indication of any voicing having been done, and that had apparently seen little use since installation.  I did some voicing on this latter set using protocols familiar to me, with reasonable results, but I want to do better.

When I took Rick Baldassin's "Voicing Masterclass" summer, Rick made a comment something to the effect of "these protocols are for Renner's hammers.  If you're using someone else's hammers, use their voicing protocols".  I took that with a grain of salt, but all the same, does Yamaha have a published protocol for voicing these hammers, or for voicing Yamaha hammers in general?

-------------------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
-------------------------------------------