Instead of foam James, you might want to try some anti-vibrational rubber.
There are lots of examples on the web where the noise decibel reduction is significant.
Original Message:
Sent: 08-04-2015 22:34
From: James Kelly
Subject: Yamaha C7 Action noises
Thank you all for the different ideas . I may have a chance to work on the piano tomorrow since there is no activity going on in the sanctuary. A have given some though about possibly trying to absorb sound that travels to the metal whippen rail. If you bought a dishwasher recently the big spec is how quiet they can be. My kitchen aid sounded like a cement mixer even when it was new. I now have a Bosch that whispers. The secret is the increased use of sound isolation and insulation materials, antivibration mounts . A few pieces of a sound absorbing foam placed in the right places may work.
When I return I plan to try a few of your tips and swap around some new parts. Stay "tuned"
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James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-04-2015 21:26
From: John Parham
Subject: Yamaha C7 Action noises
Michael,
I have actually done exactly what you have suggested on a C7. The action noise was excessive, and I chose to believe that the felt I added reduced the noise. I don't think it made that much difference alone. Maybe several steps can have a cumulative effect to reduce the noise.
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John Parham, RPT
Hickory, NC
828-244-2487
johnparham@piano88.com
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-04-2015 05:32
From: Michael Gamble
Subject: Yamaha C7 Action noises
If there's room - would gluing a length of felt along those metal rails be, in part, a solution? Deaden the sound transmission. Just an armchair thought - never done this myself. But I do think the culprits are those out-of-shape rollers (sorry, knuckles) Michael UK
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Michael Gamble
semi retired
Brighton
01273813612
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-03-2015 20:20
From: James Kelly
Subject: Yamaha C7 Action noises
Because I hold myself to a high standard I want to get to the bottom of the noise problem. It bothers me enough and if that is the case it is sure to bother guest artists when concerts are resumed or there are special events. The church brings in a number of guest musicians and it would be a matter of time before there is a complaint. I had results on a smaller Yamaha when I rounded off the very sharp edge on the jack top but that does not mean it is the problem on this piano but never say never. so far I have not solved the issue but I think I am close. I am more and more inclined to think that the very hard knuckles are the culprit perhaps with the jack adjustment felt. That felt takes a pounding every time it slams into the spoon . When I applied fabric softener to those felts on the small Yamaha it turned the sound off. I tracked the noise down using an electronic stethescope and found that the sound travelled through the whippen body to the flange rail and got magnified by the metal rail. Several notes playing together amplified the total volume. All of the tips are valuable in this case and in future cases. If the action is shot it would be better to lay it out now with a careful evaluation instead of getting complaints during Christmas season. Noise troubleshooting is something that can take quite a bit of trial and error . There is a receptive ear but as always there is always the budget issue too.
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James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-03-2015 12:21
From: David Skolnik
Subject: Yamaha C7 Action noises
James -
Of all the things you are fixing to throw at this piano, rounding the jack edge isn't one of them, at least, not for return noise reduction. Nor would it seem that the jack let-off punching would have much to contribute in return noise, but, at this point, it might be fun to figure out if there's anything you haven't yet needled.
Otherwise, you've gotten plenty of good suggestions. It's not clear, though, where the impetus for this project is originating. Has someone specifically complained about the action noise? How is this piano used? Is return noise its biggest problem? If it did, in fact, require a more major undertaking (action rebuilding), is there a receptive constituency?
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David Skolnik
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-02-2015 13:42
From: James Kelly
Subject: Yamaha C7 Action noises
Thank you all for responding quickly. I had some noise in a smaller Yamaha some time back so the knuckles could be at the heart of the problem. As I said when I needled the core it was a little crunch. That plus the fact the knuckles are not completely round. I do recall a suggestion about rounding off the edge of the top tip of the jack where it comes into contact with the knuckle when it returns. I tried a fabric softener on the jack regulating felt on that smaller Yamaha and it seemed to help but soon returned. Next visit this coming week I will have some spare parts with me to try out. Any sounds in the action seem to get amplified ten fold with the metal action rails.
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James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
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Original Message:
Sent: 08-01-2015 23:34
From: James Kelly
Subject: Yamaha C7 Action noises
I am trying to reduce or eliminate noise coming from the action on a C7 when the keys are returning . The piano is a Yamaha C7 in a church sanctuary that has had some HVAC issues and of course the usual battle of where to set the ac in the summer.The full Dampp Chaser system had not been in use for a time but now after a full servicing and check out it is operational. prior to doing a thorough action regulation, seating and levelling strings, removing string cuts etc I was evaluating the action as I found it. the noise is about the same with the action in or out of the piano. I tried a number of things on the whippens especially and also measured the hammer flanges , rep lever pinning and jack pinning. I needled a number of things including the jack regulating felt, rep lever height felt and whippen body felt, capstan felt, knuckle core, letoff button felt, drop screw buckskin. The knuckle core felt and the letoff button felt where a little crunchie when I needled with a chopstick needle. When I did a swing test I got 9 swings on the hammer flange. The rep lever only had 2 grams of resistance when I believe it should be 5-6 to support the hammers. Knuckles are out of round, not flat but not in the round either. The springs are not overly strong but I seem to hear the noise as the knuckles contact the jack tip to slip back under. Perhaps someone has a thought what to try next. Seems like I read that the edges on the tips of some jacks need a little rounding off to help the jack return. All I have to do is get one quiet(er) and do the other 87. My plan , as a fellow tech suggested, is to return with a few newer whippens and swap them out to see what that does. However I would like to have a number of tricks in my kit.
The piano is circa 1981 and was used for many years of concerts. I am concerned that the action noise will come through during softer play, if the piano is miked or if recordings are made. I should also mention I checked the grups in the whippens and they had the green emralon stuff. I saw a tip by Roger Jolly that suggests burnishing the slot with a sharpened shank, application of DAg followed by more burnishing and cleaning the spring end with Naptha . Anyone have thoughts on that ?
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James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
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