Pianotech

check the archives for 'flange cord replacement'. There's lots there, even as soon a a few weeks ago.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Original Message:
Sent: 11-18-2015 09:09
From: Melissa Warren
Subject: Upright damper lever springs

I want to replace some but am having difficulty. Can someone give me some tips on getting the cloth in ??? The flange wants to crack and threading the coil in there is a problem.

this is an old piano with the damper springs held in the flange with a center pin wrapped in red cloth. No cords.

------------------------------
Melissa Warren
Lawrence KS
785-749-5000

Original Message:
Sent: 11-18-2015 09:09
From: Melissa Warren
Subject: Upright damper lever springs

I want to replace some but am having difficulty. Can someone give me some tips on getting the cloth in ??? The flange wants to crack and threading the coil in there is a problem.

Hi, Melissa

That's the way Steinway grand repetition springs used to be held, till they replaced the system with a damned teflon post, which often clicks.

I see no reason why you couldn't go with the traditional flange cord, which I always called damper cord. It's good to buy a variety of thicknesses, so you can find which one is firm without being so tight it risks cracking the wooden parts.

When you get some cord (Schaff #3737 and Schaff #512-1/2 for starters), make a point on one end by pulling back the woven sleeve and clipping off some of the inner threads at a couple of lengths. Then pull back the sleeve, and form a point by moistening it with white glue and letting it dry and harden. I like to use relatively short pieces, like 8 or 10 inches, so there isn't as much pulling through to do.

When you get the right size going, so it's firm but not too firm, you can push the pointed end through the flange and spring, and then pull on the point with needle nosed pliers till you have a long enough piece coming through to grab it with your fingers. Leave just a little ragged end showing on the side of the flange, trim it flush with a very sharp razor blade, then trim off the other side and you're ready for the next one.

The springs should end up noise-free and perfectly secure,

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon

Original Message:
Sent: 11-18-2015 16:20
From: Melissa Warren
Subject: Upright damper lever springs

this is an old piano with the damper springs held in the flange with a center pin wrapped in red cloth. No cords.

------------------------------
Melissa Warren
Lawrence KS
785-749-5000

Thank you so much for the detailed instructions. I will try this. You didn't mention the center pins. Do you use these as they did in the original or just the cord? Thanks again!

------------------------------
Melissa Warren
Lawrence KS
785-749-5000

Original Message:
Sent: 11-18-2015 16:52
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Upright damper lever springs

Hi, Melissa

That's the way Steinway grand repetition springs used to be held, till they replaced the system with a damned teflon post, which often clicks.

I see no reason why you couldn't go with the traditional flange cord, which I always called damper cord. It's good to buy a variety of thicknesses, so you can find which one is firm without being so tight it risks cracking the wooden parts.

When you get some cord (Schaff #3737 and Schaff #512-1/2 for starters), make a point on one end by pulling back the woven sleeve and clipping off some of the inner threads at a couple of lengths. Then pull back the sleeve, and form a point by moistening it with white glue and letting it dry and harden. I like to use relatively short pieces, like 8 or 10 inches, so there isn't as much pulling through to do.

When you get the right size going, so it's firm but not too firm, you can push the pointed end through the flange and spring, and then pull on the point with needle nosed pliers till you have a long enough piece coming through to grab it with your fingers. Leave just a little ragged end showing on the side of the flange, trim it flush with a very sharp razor blade, then trim off the other side and you're ready for the next one.

The springs should end up noise-free and perfectly secure,

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon

If you want to replace as original, it would be the same process as bushing a flange, then inserting a pin, except that you don't need to worry about precise friction and density of felt, and you need to thread it through the eye of the damper spring. There is a Renner manual on the subject (of flange bushing cloth insertion, etc.), that you can get at

http://www.rennerusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/techmanual_flange_brushing_cloth.pdf

The basic premise is that you take some cloth of that sort (key bushing cloth will do) stripped to the correct width so it will circle the hole (best to determine by experiment - and if it is just a little on the narrow side, that is better than the opposite and won't cause a problem in this case). Then you cut a taper at the end of the strip, one that will insert nicely all the way through the hole (IOW it should be a little narrower than the hole, for a length that is longer than the flange is wide, then tapered). Harden that tapered part with a little glue (CA and kicker will be fast, or you could use acetone and keytop solution if you have some handy). Then insert through the hole and the eye of the spring, pull through until the end is flush, and cut (you could thread a number of them, just leave enough of a gap to get a razor blade into to cut them apart). Insert pin in the hole, cut flush.

------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda

Original Message:
Sent: 11-21-2015 09:28
From: Melissa Warren
Subject: Upright damper lever springs

Thank you so much for the detailed instructions. I will try this. You didn't mention the center pins. Do you use these as they did in the original or just the cord? Thanks again!

------------------------------
Melissa Warren
Lawrence KS
785-749-5000

Thanks again for info. I did try doing it like a flange bushing but age and brittleness of wood caused cracking. I think i will try the cord.

------------------------------
Melissa Warren
Lawrence KS
785-749-5000

Original Message:
Sent: 11-21-2015 19:09
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: Upright damper lever springs

If you want to replace as original, it would be the same process as bushing a flange, then inserting a pin, except that you don't need to worry about precise friction and density of felt, and you need to thread it through the eye of the damper spring. There is a Renner manual on the subject (of flange bushing cloth insertion, etc.), that you can get at

http://www.rennerusa.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/techmanual_flange_brushing_cloth.pdf

The basic premise is that you take some cloth of that sort (key bushing cloth will do) stripped to the correct width so it will circle the hole (best to determine by experiment - and if it is just a little on the narrow side, that is better than the opposite and won't cause a problem in this case). Then you cut a taper at the end of the strip, one that will insert nicely all the way through the hole (IOW it should be a little narrower than the hole, for a length that is longer than the flange is wide, then tapered). Harden that tapered part with a little glue (CA and kicker will be fast, or you could use acetone and keytop solution if you have some handy). Then insert through the hole and the eye of the spring, pull through until the end is flush, and cut (you could thread a number of them, just leave enough of a gap to get a razor blade into to cut them apart). Insert pin in the hole, cut flush.

------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda

If the flanges are cracking when the the spring is replaced with new cloth and pin, you have a BAPP (Brittle Action Parts Problem). 

The correct and long term remedy is to replace the parts.  If that is not an option and you choose to take on the thankless task of working on parts that are falling apart, you could try to strengthen and stabilize the flanges with CA glue.  Keep that stuff away from the actual damper center pin bushing, of course. 

Best of luck.

------------------------------
Jurgen Goering

Original Message:
Sent: 11-24-2015 23:06
From: Melissa Warren
Subject: Upright damper lever springs

Thanks again for info. I did try doing it like a flange bushing but age and brittleness of wood caused cracking. I think i will try the cord.

------------------------------
Melissa Warren
Lawrence KS
785-749-5000

If the flange is cracking, use thinner cloth and a smaller diameter pin. Or go with an appropriately sized cord.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Original Message:
Sent: 11-24-2015 23:06
From: Melissa Warren
Subject: Upright damper lever springs

Thanks again for info. I did try doing it like a flange bushing but age and brittleness of wood caused cracking. I think i will try the cord.

------------------------------
Melissa Warren
Lawrence KS
785-749-5000

Original Message------

Thank you so much for the detailed instructions. I will try this. You didn't mention the center pins. Do you use these as they did in the original or just the cord? Thanks again!

------------------------------
Melissa Warren
Lawrence KS
785-749-5000
------------------------------

Original Message------

Thank you so much for the detailed instructions. I will try this. You didn't mention the center pins. Do you use these as they did in the original or just the cord? Thanks again!

------------------------------
Melissa Warren
Lawrence KS
785-749-5000
------------------------------