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restringing with the original pinblock

  • 1.  restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-30-2017 08:14
    I just attempted a sale tuning for a 100 year old Baldwin (maybe, that's another discusssion) that had been restrung in another state. The technician who did the work (most of what was done looks good and it is very playable) tuned it several times before sending it off and said it was fine. I found most of the tuning pins loose-ish and about 7 of them untunable. CA glue did not help, they are bad.

    I know what to do next, except that this being a warranty situation complicates it. Also another discussion.

    I saw paint on the tuning pin bushings, and wondered about that. Then the customer showed me a lovely book the technician had made with before and after pictures. A great idea. However, it confirmed (of course, not 100%) my suspicion that the plate had been sprayed without protecting the tuning pin holes.

    A technician that I vented to about this said he thought that would not cause the problem.

    So that's my question: would it?  I remember being told that if one is using the original pinclock, you must put something in the pin holes to keep the paint out.

    Also: the work was done in Florida and the piano moved to Illinois, where it is currently close to 0 degrees and has been for at least a week. Would that be enough to cause a big change in torque?

    Thanks.

    ------------------------------
    Cindy Strehlow
    Urbana, IL
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Posted 12-30-2017 08:48
    First thing...some things are not your fault or your problem.

    I've come across several "recently rebuilt" pianos that sound like you describe: let me guess...it's restrung and the action is all original except for new hammers and (maybe) shanks? It's sad to see because the customer is so hopeful and then you are the one telling them it has major problems.

    I don't think paint would cause that problem. I would have plugged all the holes (and installed new tuning pin bushings), but it's not likely that enough paint got in there to do anything.

    Just moving it from more humid Florida to even much-less humid winter Illinois should not cause what you're describing. It sounds like the rebuilder did not get the install torque correct. My guess is that they were too loose from day one. The pins were probably turning a little too easily when it left his shop, and then the initial torque dropped like it always does, causing what you're describing.

    I would recommend the rebuilder take care of this. It should not be happening.

    ------------------------------
    John Formsma, RPT
    New Albany MS
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-30-2017 10:23
    I agree largely with what John said.  If anything was "marginally ok" in FL, going north in this kind of winter, definitely going to kill it. 

    Sounds like an unfortunate sequence of events. You can only call them as you see them. We, and they, cannot control everything. But if there is a warranty on it they should honor it, otherwise what's the use of a warranty?

    How does the warranty actually read?  If it contains a clause that requires the homeowner to maintain a stable and humidity controlled environment, they may be sunk. If not...then it stands to reason that they better get their "butts" up there and fix the problem.  Or pay you to fix it as you prescribe.



    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-30-2017 13:35
    Cindy

    Baldwin pin blocks are notorious for not liking to be "re-used". When I was in St. Louis, I had to 'eat" several restringing jobs, before I got smart, and just included a new pin block on all Baldwin rebuilds. 

    I would suggest you write up a report that states the tuning pins a very loose, and ask your customer to contact the technician in Florida how he wants to solve the problem. 

    I wouldn't mention the paint on the pin bushings. That might not have caused the pins to be loose. It's most likely that they were loose before the piano left Florida, but got worse once it went through an Illinois winter. 

    Good luck.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-31-2017 17:48
    While moving a piano from Florida to Illinois in normal weather would not cause a tuning problem, the extreem weather conditions in the mid-west and north east this last week could cause some tuning instability.  I remember several years ago tuning some church pianos for christmas programs when the weather was mild.  January was very cold and the heat was coming on in the sanctuaries when the thurmestat was set at 50 so heat was running a lot.  About a month of this and the pianos went "wacko", very flat.
    I wonder if the rebuilder mic'ed the tuning pins before he installed them.  I have found .002-.003 difference from the stated diamiter of new tuning pins.  If there was a .002 difference on the smaller side it might be OK in Florida, but you move that piano to Illinois in zero temperatures and the pins are going to be a little looser.

    ------------------------------
    Clarence Zeches
    Piano Service Enterprise School of Technology
    Toccoa GA
    706-886-4035
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-01-2018 11:58
    Cindy,

    My guess, FWIW -

    Wim kind of hovered around what the problem likely is. Different pinblock
    composition must be dealt with accordingly. With a Yamaha, you can only
    go up one size, unless you ream, than it's one size up from that of the reamer.
    With Baldwin 32 lam pinblocks, two full sizes is really needed. With Steinway
    hexagrip, 1 1/2 size is best for me. Also, the quality of the pins is also a 
    consideration. Klinke (Diamond) pins are much more uniform in diameter
    and roundness than Denro, I have found. Pins from other companies, some
    of which are now out of business (we know who they are) claim higher 
    standards but generally fall short.

    Also, the handling of the pins is critical. Even a little contamination can lead
    to slippage which will never go away. Our hands have salts and oils on them,
    as well as residue from anything we touch. If you use sanitizer or moisturizer
    on your hands, guess what....

    Measure the pins and see what size they are. And extrapolate the length. It
    may also be that they are close enough in diameter, but were too short for
    the job. 

    I second what John and Wim have said. This is not your problem. But you are
    in a position to help the customer resolve it, make them happy and make some
    money in the deal. Have the customer contact the technician about this first,
    then step in to coordinate a resolution based on what the technician wants to
    do - send it back or hire you to do the work.

    Good luck.



    ------------------------------
    Dave Conte
    Owner
    North Richland Hills TX
    817-581-7321
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-02-2018 10:49
    It would be interesting to know some of the details leading to decisions made for this piano.

    Sometimes an otherwise good job can go bad due to an unforeseen change in environment.  It would seem that if the previous repairer had reason to believe the piano would remain in Florida, that would drive decisions in one direction, if not, another direction.  But if it was a budget decision, that's another thing altogether. 

    Did the owner buy the piano this way, or was their piano repaired and they moved?

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-03-2018 08:04
    The piano belonged to the customer's grandmother who lived in Florida. The customer first called our local, very reputable, rebuilder. She said they were 'rude' and 'dismissive' to her, which while is not good business, is easy to do when folks don't want to hear what it really costs to really fix and old piano. (I have been dismissive myself on occasion, but I try not to be rude. May have been a tone of voice issue, or they were super busy and just didn't have time to do any hand-holding that day.)

    I have heard from a few people that confirmed that humidity differences could cause the problem. My guess is that the Florida rebuilder does not customarily replace pinblocks, and having never sent a piano out of Florida, did not foresee what could happen.

    The next step has not been taken yet. 

    Thanks for all you responses, it has been a big help. 


    ------------------------------
    Cindy Strehlow
    Urbana, IL
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-03-2018 11:49
    Please stop referring to the person that painted the plate with the tuning pin bushings still in and then restrung the piano without replacing them as a rebuilder. There are far better terms for one who performs that sort of work. So as not to run afoul of forum rules I'll forgo listing them.

    ------------------------------
    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-03-2018 12:51
    PTG council has a book of resolutions. Here's Two
    DEFINITIONS/STATEMENTS – By general consent, the following definitions and statements were added to the book:
    1. REBUILT PIANO DEFINITION: A used piano that has been disassembled, inspected, and repaired as necessary with replacement of all worn or deteriorated parts, re-assembled, tested, and approved to at least the same tolerances as a new piano of like manufacture. [C05- 031]
    2. RECONDITIONED PIANO DEFINITION: A used piano that has been put back in good condition by cleaning, repairing and adjusting for maximum performance with replacement parts where specifically indicated. [

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-03-2018 12:25
    Linda said:  "I have heard from a few people that confirmed that humidity differences could cause the problem. My guess is that the Florida rebuilder does not customarily replace pinblocks, and having never sent a piano out of Florida, did not foresee what could happen."

     I can attest to that. The humidity level here in Hawaii never goes below 60%. The average is a very constant 70% - 80%. Not only that, the temperature range is between 60 - 90 degrees. 99% of the home here don't have heat, of any kind, except for some homes in the upper elevations, which might have a fireplace that's used three or four days a year. 

    I have rebuilt 8 grands in the past 10 years that have lived all their lives in Hawaii. Except for one that was in a fire, all the blocks were tight. These are 60 - 100 year old pianos.  

    What concerns me is the spray paint on the bushings. Apparently he didn't even remove the plate to spray the plate. That's not acceptable. But it's questionable if that caused the block to crack, or the pins to slip.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-03-2018 13:54
    To me the most important issue is the specific wording of the warranty. That in and of itself should determine the next step regardless of what was actually done/not done to the piano.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Member
    Posted 01-03-2018 15:31
    Maybe no one has mentioned it but it could be possible there are cracks in a 100 year old pinblock after being restrung. I am assuming that new tuning pins have been used (have they ?) . if the pin block was not properly supported with a jig or machinist jack perhaps there are cracks or de-laminations. One way to explore this is to place a mirror face up and sweep it slowly from bass to high treble. You can also use an ipad or iphone with the front camera on to view the block and to take selfies. Given the additional info you provided that the piano did not go to the reputable re-builder it sounds like a price-shopper scenario. I went through such a scenario with a customer who wanted to rebuild a Kimball Concert Grand. When he got some quotes from a rebuilder I refer work to he near died. I have had clients insist their neglected, verdigris loaded Steinway is worth $35,000 when in fact is is worth about $2k because of the pathetic shape it is in. But I saw Steinways on the Internet all going for $30,000 and up ....

    As far as warranties go it is probably worthless since the refurbisher ? is in Florida. No way was that piano rebuilt

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-03-2018 21:50
    James,

    I am inclined to agree about the warranty. The likelihood of anything getting done appropriately is probably extremely slim...EXTREMELY.  But...worth a try.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-04-2018 07:24
    I don't think the pinblock is cracked, as of the 7 untunable pins, only 2 were next to each other and they were not the worst ones.

    I'll check the underside when I am back there.

    I am thinking that the CA glue didn't work, not even a little bit, because the paint on the tuning pin bushings made it impossible for the glue to get down where it needs to go.

    ------------------------------
    Cindy Strehlow
    Urbana, IL
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-04-2018 09:35
    Hi Lucinda.

    I used to live in Wisconsin and Minnesota and sub-zero temps really do dry out a house in a hurry with the heat on constantly.  The summers were muggy with some days at 100 percent humidity at 80 degrees .... 8:00 AM.  I hated it.  6 months later it'd be sub-zero with 0 percent humidity in the house.  This sort of weather really tears up a piano in a hurry.  It'll put a 100 year old pinblock on it's knees.

    Finger pointing probably won't improve your bottom line much.  Tread lightly there.

    The paint on the bushings won't stop water thin CA from penetrating.  Since you're in a warranty situation, I'd get clearance from the seller to treat the loose t-pins with CA glue and hope it holds.

    OR  ..........

    Protect yourself from getting involved with this one.  It's a time bomb.  Do you need all the resulting traffic it will possibly create?  I think I'd probably walk away from it taking a loss on what ever I'd been involved with so far if needed.  There's far easier money to be made out there and plenty of it.

    lar

    ------------------------------
    Larry Fisher
    Owner, Chief Grunt, Head Hosehead
    Vancouver WA
    360-256-2999
    ------------------------------



  • 17.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-05-2018 07:27
    I have been careful to just tell them the facts and leave the negotiating to them. I don't need the work, it's out of town in a direction I don't normally travel since there has, in the past, always been someone else that did good work there. I took the job in the first place as they were having a party and the local technician was unavailable. I have been in touch with him and he has not responded----gee, wonder why?!!!


    ------------------------------
    Cindy Strehlow
    Urbana, IL
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-05-2018 09:14
    LOL!!!

    Yes, being too busy with other things can become convenient. 

    Then again, one could take the hard line approach and simply say: "I'm sorry about your situation, but in reality there is only ONE legitimate way to fix this piano, and that is the ONLY way I will deal with it. Someone else may do something else, but if you want it done properly, come back and talk to me".

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 19.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Posted 01-05-2018 09:38
    The loose pins may have been over-sized pins before restringing.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-06-2018 08:11
    Update. I did hear from the local technician and he is happy to let me see this through for the time being. As I am 'a few' years older than he is, he will be working on it eventually in any case.
        The customer and Florida technician have agreed to bandaids, which I have agreed to try, i.e. tuning pin sleeves (his preference). While I have the pin out I'll measure it. He told the customer that he used the next size up. I will make another stab at CA glue, as well, making sure I have good quality thin stuff.
         I think there is no way this technician will agree to starting over. He has had experience with both sending out and receiving pianos from different humidity conditions. Apparently this situation was just more than he expected. Whatever. 
         The customers wanted to keep Grandma's piano and were, as Peter suggested, price shopping. They will be satisfied if it is minimally playable/tunable. I hope we can get there.
         Thanks again for all your responses.  And Larry M., thanks for your line a few months back about Grandma giving them the gift of music. I have used it.

    ------------------------------
    Cindy Strehlow
    Urbana, IL
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Posted 01-06-2018 08:54
    Now his qualifications are questioned by even considering the use of tuning pin sleeves. I would place his name on the 'hack' list.

    Don't wouldn't touch the piano, unless the owner agrees to pay you to correct the issues and then get reimbursed from this 'tech'. Consider him out of the picture as far as what proceeds with the repairs. If the owner has to take a beating on this, that's unfortunate. Don't bend over backwards to make it easy on some slack, shoddy workmanship. Don't feel sorry for the owner, that's for the courts to decide.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-06-2018 10:10
    Lucinda,

    Though I agree with Jon's comments in general, there is one repair that I would consider reasonable and craftsmanlike IF AND ONLY IF it appears there is no other option.

    (but don't fall for the whinings of relatives who might want to take advantage of you for cheap, when in reality they have the money to fix it right but aren't saying...know what I mean?)

    While not exactly quick and dirty this does work well. Epoxy "fill 'n drill" method. 

    1) Remove pin
    2) Clean out hole with gun barrel wire brush, or drill slightly bigger, or ream. (This is optional and depends on what, if any contamination is in there, and what size pin you're taking out.)
    3) Seal bottom of hole with wax paper, wood and a jack.
    4) Fill hole with thin epoxy and keep adding as it seeps into the wood and whatever voids might be present. Fill to top of pinblock...don't get messy.
    5) Let cure
    6) Drill for a 2/0 pin. You can do this by hand...not critical, however you may find that the hole needs to be bigger than you think for that pin. The epoxy is pretty tough.  Last time I used .272" for 2/0 pin and it was comfortable. 
    7) Reassemble and you're done. 

    This can prove to be a "miracle" cure so charge accordingly. Works in new pinblocks too when mistakes happen, or if there's a bad spot in the block. (Did I really just say that?)

    Just an idea.

    Keep us posted.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-06-2018 10:19
    Peter

    I agree.  This method has been presented to our Chapter a couple of times as an OPTION when replacement is not possible for whatever reason.  There are a couple of effective epoxy resins available.  If the pin is out anyway - it works.  

    Several ways to plug/seal the bottom of the pin block to keep the epoxy from running everywhere.

    If CA has been used I would definitely ream the pinhole.

    "PTG - Expand your Horizon - Share the Vision"

    "Good, Better, Best.  Never let it rest. "till the good is better, and the better, best."

    Bill Davis, RPT, SERVP

    2315 Rocky Mountain Rd NE
    Marietta GA 30066-2113
    CP: 770-778-6881
    bill@pianoplace.net
    www.pianoplace.net






  • 24.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-10-2018 11:15
    "There are a couple of effective epoxy resins available."

    George, any specific 
    suggestions for epoxy?
    Is one better off with a long-curing or 5-minute type?

    thanks,
    Scott

    ------------------------------
    Scott Cole
    Talent OR
    541-601-9033
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-06-2018 12:50
    Peter said, as part of the steps.  "Seal bottom of hole with wax paper, wood and a jack."

    The wax paper doesn't glue to the epoxy, and the wood keeps it in place. But the epoxy will seep out between the wax and bottom of the pin block, because the block is not very smooth. So add a layer of felt between the wax and the wood, and it will fill in all the small cracks and crevasses. 


    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-06-2018 15:37
    Good idea Wim!

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 27.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Member
    Posted 01-06-2018 11:02
    Tuning pin sleeves ????

      I think you are going to dig yourself into a bottomless ditch and create a ton of work that you will eat. If you have seven notes that are un tuneable focus on them and document why. I suggest a torque wrench first to get readings. Next  would measure the tuning pins in situ with a tuning pin gauge to see if they are 2.0 .  Taking the pins out can distort the coils and risks putting kinks in the strings. Take temp and r/h readings and plenty of pictures . I suggest you get some fresh super thin CA at a local hobby shop or mail order from Dryburg and treat one or more of the magnificent seven and see what it does to the torque. Apply the CA using a syringe or a very long tip extender attached to the top of the glue bottle. Make sure the glue gets into the gap between the tuning pin threads and the pin block hole for that pin. Protect the action and key bed by removing the action and placing a mat or paper over the key bed so any glue does not migrate/drip. I let the glue cure from 48 to 72 hours when I do pin blocks and I have done a ton of them.

    Tuning pin sleeves ??? really ??? The only sleeve I would use would be sandpaper strips.  If other pins are still loosish I would treat the entire pin block doing two or three passes. How loose is loosish

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Posted 01-06-2018 16:21
    If one were to fill the holes, the block should be sealed from the bottom with a layer of wax paper with felt/cloth underneath. Then a board and jacks to press it all up tight. But I don't think that would be necessary, simply swab the hole with epoxy and let cure. Ream for the new pin. 
    How many pins are we talking about?  Maybe you should consider a new block.

    Don't go to extra-ordinary steps to do a surrogate CYA.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Posted 01-06-2018 22:16
    This may have already been mentioned, but you could swab the hole with thick CA glue, and then use the same pin. I haven't done this for a few years, but it worked great back when I was working on old uprights. If memory is correct, it was noticeably better right away, and tuneable, then felt normal after it cured.

    ------------------------------
    John Formsma, RPT
    New Albany MS
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Posted 01-11-2018 09:49
    John,

    What did you use as the "swab"?

    ------------------------------
    [Barbara] [Bernhardt]
    [Piano Technician/Co-Owner ]
    [GF Music, LLC]
    [Montrose] [CO]
    [(970)209-8817]
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Posted 01-11-2018 12:59
    Pretty sure it was a hammer shank. It has been a long time since I did it. Was needing any work then and would work on the old stuff unless impossible

    ------------------------------
    John Formsma, RPT
    New Albany MS
    ------------------------------



  • 32.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-12-2018 09:40
    The thing that jumps out at me here is that the restringing was done using pins only
    one size larger. See my previous post about this. They were too small to begin with.
    If you end up restringing this piano, you will need to go up at least 1.5 sizes, and since
    this is a Baldwin with a multi-lam block, probably two sizes. 

    As an alternative, for those few loose pins, just replace them with a larger lo-torque
    pins (available at Pianotek). If the rest of the scale is okay, why are you working on
    the whole set?


    ------------------------------
    Dave Conte
    Owner
    North Richland Hills TX
    817-581-7321
    ------------------------------



  • 33.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-12-2018 11:59
    Dave,

    That's a pretty good point to think about! I can agree.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 34.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-13-2018 09:22
    Dave,

     Because they are just barely OK. Probably good enough for this couple, but if it were all up to me, I would observe it for a year and then probably try something on the whole pinblock. All speculation at this point. 

    Thanks.

    ------------------------------
    Cindy Strehlow
    Urbana, IL
    ------------------------------



  • 35.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-07-2018 00:31
    Question related to someone else's comment that said, "I am thinking that the CA glue didn't work, not even a little bit, because the paint on the tuning pin bushings made it impossible for the glue to get down where it needs to go."

    Has anyone ever tried removing the action, tilting the piano onto its side, and then impregnating with ultra-thin CA glue from the bottom of the pin block? 


    ------------------------------
    Anthony Willey
    Shoreline WA
    ------------------------------



  • 36.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-07-2018 10:18
    Anthony,

    I have never done it but I have heard of it being done. How successful it was, I cannot attest to. Personally I would not go to all the trouble and risk involved with flipping the piano to do that. Sometimes CA glue applications simply don't work. WHO KNOWS the complete history of this piano? Probably not even the fellow who restrung it.

    I hope that Lucinda can find a reasonable solution to this (but in her heart she knows that the work needs to be done all over again...correctly this time). The way we present things though has a lot do with their acceptance or not. But more importantly, we need to protect our reputation. 

    Almost everyone will accept a quick and dirty fix. Problem is that makes me the "quick and dirty fixer". Not what I want attached to my name (not to mention the fact that it may come back to bite me when they have "forgotten" that it wasn't a permanent repair and has now failed again). 

    No, I would rather take the consequences of saying: "I'm sorry, but I will not work on this instrument unless the following is agreed to...yes, I am fully aware that it costs a lot of money, but it is the only true correct solution for this problem". 

    True, they may get someone else to "fix" it, but that's fine with me. Let them be the "hero". I don't need it. I've been doing this long enough to know what the end result will be. After making that mistake a time or two one learns when to close the door.

    I'm sure Lucinda will handle it well.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 37.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-08-2018 07:59
    Thanks for the vote of confidence!  

    I will be seeing the piano again in February, will update then. 


    ------------------------------
    Cindy Strehlow
    Urbana, IL
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  • 38.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-09-2018 08:56
    I've done a lot of CA treatments as well as pinblock replacements and everything in between.  To answer this specific question about turning the piano on its side, you need the help of gravity to assist the CA in traveling.  I'll add this embarrassing but possibly helpful anecdote.  The first full CA treatment I ever did (probably 30 years ago) before all the current information was available, I just couldn't imagine the CA would wick around the pins well enough to penetrate.  So I flipped the piano upside down.  While the CA worked quite well it also ran all the way through and I had dried glue on the coils and dripping off the tops of the pins and onto the moving pad I laid on the customer's carpet.  I will never do that again and encourage you all to NEVER do it that way.  Live and learn.

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    Gary Bruce, RPT
    Bruce Piano Service
    Edmond, OK
    405-413-TUNE
    www.brucepiano.com
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  • 39.  RE: restringing with the original pinblock

    Posted 01-09-2018 13:40
    I've applied CA on an over-turned grand many times with no problems. Fill the holes and let it permeate. Just don't forget to secure the lid prop to the strut before inverting :-)

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    Regards,

    Jon Page