Benjamin,
See what Susan says. She largely covers it. But let's also look at the claim that a piano can be tuned twice in 45 minutes. Before we do that, however, ask yourself how could a person make a living by tuning every piano poorly and unstably, have decades long repeat customers and get most business from personal referrals, have schools, concert halls and tech colleges use the same services for decades, be on sets of live performances where time is of the absolute essence (the techies are all waiting, they have more work to do after I finish and the show will start soon), the room is only available for a limited amount of time, there are other appointments to get to, there are other issues with the piano to address, etc., ? The answer is that it only takes as long as it takes and nothing more.
Let's look at some of the logistics. In 45 minutes, there are 2,700 seconds. The average piano has 230 strings (I have never actually counted the number of tuning pins on any piano but I have heard that figure, so I will take it for sake of comparison). If the entire piano is tuned twice in 45 minutes, that means there are 460 pins to be addressed. That means that each tuning pin would have a very comfortable (if you ask me), 5.9 seconds to get the string to pitch and have it be stable.
I can recall, in the orchestra pit of a show where I was an on stage singer and actor (Cole Porter's, "Anything Goes"), tuning the Kimball Studio piano twice in 25 minutes. 1,500 seconds, 3.3 seconds per pin. I also tuned a Kawai RX-5 on stage (techies waiting, more to do and the show time approaching as I described, piano off pitch) in 35 minutes. 2,100 seconds, 4.6 seconds per pin. These were public performances. There are many more such examples in my career. I got the job done in a very short time. The tuning was stable and accurate and I finished within the time constraints or I had time left to address other issues.
At the musical theater event, another local technician who attended commented, not about my performance on stage but how the orchestra pit piano sounded so good! On pitch and in tune with all of the other instruments. The other event had a local favorite son at the piano, capacity and roaring crowd for a talented young pianist and vocalist. The piano could not have had a sloppy sounding tuning. It had the professional sound that a stage performance requires and it was on pitch and in tune with the other instruments on stage, including the electronic keyboards that the pianist used for special effects sounds.
To put it into perspective, you have to consider Steve Fairchild's World Record event of tuning an entire piano in 5 minutes. Although that always seemed dubious to me and I did not see the event, I actually learned a lot from Steve Fairchild. His speed and accuracy were legendary. 5 minutes = 300 seconds. He did only touch each tuning pin once so that was an average time of 1.3 seconds per pin. Truly amazing!
In the classes that Steve Fairchild gave, he made a point of saying that part of the time it takes to tune a piano is unproductive. Whatever time it takes to move the tuning hammer from one pin to the next is unproductive time. He said that you have to have your eye not on the pin that you are tuning but the next one. That one statement alone meant a lot to me.
There are two basic approaches to tuning hammer technique: the "slow pull" and the "impact" methods. The novice tuner naturally gravitates to the slow pull method. "I am going to put my tuning hammer on that tuning pin and turn it until I get the pitch correctly." There are plenty of technicians who do that and only do that. They also claim that the tuning hammer bit must fit the tuning pin tightly so that the tuning pin movement can be felt. It takes far more time to move a tightly fitting tuning hammer socket from one pin to the next than it does one that fits loosely. I have only one tuning hammer with a #3 socket. Don't ask me or try to tell me that I should use anything else! It has a 20 degree angle on it and a gear shift type handle. I like it that way and I use it much like a gear shift. Also, don't try to tell me that I cannot "feel" the pin move. I do. Much the same as if you try to open a door that seems stuck. If you you strike the door and it does not move, you know that there is a dead bolt lock. If you strike the door and it gives, you know that another strike or two will get it open.
Two consequences of the slow pull method are that it takes far more time to move the tuning hammer from one pin to the next AND one must then undo all of the torsion that may be put in the tuning pin (particularly if it is a very tight pin). Then, there are all of the other segments of the piano wire that will have uneven tension upon them that must be reconciled. This requires, tuning above the desired pitch, pounding the key, then twisting the tuning pin counterclockwise, pounding again and again twisting the pin clockwise in order to do what is called, "setting the pin". I never even heard of "setting the pin" until several years ago on Piano World Forums and the mention of "feeling the foot of the pin move" and the attempt to leave more tension in the first segment of the non-speaking length of the string than there is in the speaking length.
When I read all of that, I said to myself, "What?" For decades before I had read that, I simply put my tuning hammer on a pin, gave it one quick whack and moved on. In the cases of large pitch raises when the piano had not been tuned in many years, I certainly do not put lube on bearing points (yuck!), I literally "throw" my tuning hammer onto the pin and it automatically impacts the pin counterclockwise, not taking any extra time to do so.
In the cases where I have raised the pitch, I may instinctively give the pin a slight tug but I also worry about how sharp the piano may go in the next season or if that slight tug may cause the string to actually go sharp upon further playing, not go flat. I tend to mostly believe in a stable string for the time being.
Surely, in these cases with rusty looking tuning pins and perhaps strings, I will raise the pitch of each string more slowly and gently than with just one quick whack, but I still use the impact method. It may seem counter intuitive because if you want to deliberately break a piece of material, you would probably use an impact technique. But you have to remember that a piano wire is elastic. If you put your tuning hammer on such a pin and simply start pulling on it, you are far more likely to create more tension than the string can bear between the tuning pin and the first bearing point and the string will break. An impact type method causes the piano wire to "scoot" past that bearing point. It also causes every part of the string to move. I very rarely break a string, even on the largest of pitch raises and even when boosting the pitch to 30 cents by the time I get to the high treble.
Once again, I would never, in my life, try to perform a major pitch raise on a piano by starting at A0. I guess I am like Frans Mohr on that. I would rather quit the business than ever even attempt it.
It must be realized that what happens between the first pass of the pitch correction phase of a tuning, happens. I know what will happen. Not all strings will hold but most of them will. If, upon the second pass of any tuning, the strings which have stayed in tune and exactly on pitch, do not require any time to correct. Those that are only slightly off only take a mere second to correct. That cuts down greatly on the average time for each pin but does leave time for the recalcitrant ones.
Surely, it takes as long or longer on the second pass but when the first one only took 15-20 minutes to accomplish, there is plenty of time to accomplish the second pass, have it really be stable and accurate in the time that remains before 45 minutes passes. Add another 15 minutes to that and you have a full hour and you still have a full 30 minutes to address other requirements that the piano may have, including cleaning but also hammer alignment, capstan adjustment (the most often needed and effective point of regulation), talking to the customer, easing the temperament of the barking dog, etc., before 90 minutes are up and there is still 30 minutes to get to the next customer. Many technicians easily and routinely tune 4 pianos per day that way from 9 AM to 5 PM.
I am not at all convinced that tuning from A0 has any advantage, whatsoever. I would never even try it. I have my own way of accomplishing what I do and I will stick with it.
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William Bremmer
RPT
Madison WI
608-238-8400
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2017 19:10
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Tuning from A0
Scott, condolences on going through pitch-raise boot camp. Most of us are veterans of it.
What works best, IMO, is to make the first pass as quickly as you possibly can, yet have it reasonably accurate. It's a good skill to build up, and kind of fun, actually. (Just one little whack out toward the end of the tuning hammer -- was it just the right amount of whack? Why, yes! Move ON!) I think that the way most beginners go wrong is by paying too much attention to getting the first pass just right. It only has to be right enough that the pressure on the bridges and the bends in the wires have changed. You're going to do them all again anyway.
For crummy spinets, I don't like to do much overpull, especially on the first pass. Breaking a string can throw your time right out the window, and it's a pain. Many spinets are getting pretty old and have rust problems and the wire sometimes gets stuck at the bearing. Be sure your first motion is downward -- just enough that you can hear the pitch change.
People seem to be allergic to extra passes, but I find that they increase my speed considerably. Two quick passes, maybe three on the most horrid spinet, then a quick cruise past to find strays. And I always explain to the customer that to get the piano stable he or she should get it tuned again in six months. I can go over it enough in one sitting that it sounds much better, but it's still in motion.
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Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2017 10:32
From: Scott Cole
Subject: Tuning from A0
"When doing a pitch raise with Verituner, do you only make one pass, and it comes out closer enough to justify doing only one pass? Or, as when tuning aurally, do you have to pitch raise, then make another pass to fine tune?"
Hey Ben,
Granted, I'm still in pitch-raise kindergarten, but I don't see how I could ever get away with one pass on a pitch raise, or even just one pass and a fine tuning. As Jeff Hickey has pointed out, raising a pitch significantly can put a couple of tons of pressure back on a piano.
I think it depends on several factors: what's the piano? How low is it? I've been doing lots of pitch raises lately for some reason--it seems like almost every piano--and there is definitely a difference between raising a Yamaha U1, which was easy to raise and very stable, and most of those older spinets, which are a nightmare. In fact, Susan's 100-proof vodka would be come in handy here, and not for voicing...
I'm still learning the art of pitch raising. I think my pianos come out pretty well in the end, but it takes way too long. This discussion on whether to start from A0 is timely for me, and I'll start trying it to see whether it makes a difference in first-pass stability.
Scott
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Scott Cole
Talent OR
541-601-9033
Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2017 12:20
From: Benjamin Sanchez
Subject: Tuning from A0
Hi Jon,
A quick question about your post. I've only seen Veritnuer used, and haven't used it myself.
When doing a pitch raise with Verituner, do you only make one pass, and it comes out closer enough to justify doing only one pass? Or, as when tuning aurally, do you have to pitch raise, then make another pass to fine tune?
I know CyberTuner has this function, but am not sure whether Verituner has it as well.
Thanks,
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Benjamin Sanchez
Professional Piano Services
(805)315-8050
www.professional-piano-services.com
BenPianoPro@comcast.net
Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2017 08:46
From: Jon Page
Subject: Tuning from A0
I tune with a Verituner. Once all the Ih has been sampled after a few tunings, a tuning can be recalculated to your choice of temperament, pitch and stretch. On saved tuning files I routinely simply recalc the file and tune A0 to C8. The low tenor may be seasonally off, so I'll utilize the overpull feature and it diminishes to about zero usually in the middle of the 4th oct. Once done, I check the low tenor.
For a pitch correction, I tune A0 to C8; setting the pitch on the VT to reflect the necessary o/p for bass/tenor/treble. I copied a S&S M tuning file and renamed it Pitch Raise. This produces an appreciable tuning on all pianos. Plus, I don't have to wait for the VT to calc an o/p, especially if the pitch is so far off that it is registering a half tone sharp or flat. The VT keeps up with me.
I find that tuning A0 to C8, unisons-as-you-go, applies tension in a sweep along the bridges and comes out a stable tuning.
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Regards,
Jon Page
Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2017 07:13
From: Larry Messerly
Subject: Tuning from A0
Yes David, not clear. I at one timed stripped the hole piano, tuned from A0 up, checked intervals, then brought in unisons.
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Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
Original Message:
Sent: 09-14-2017 01:33
From: David Stocker
Subject: Tuning from A0
Larry, sorry if I wasn't clear. Yes, unisons as you go A0 to C8.
I put both methods in the same paragraph, that may have left a confusing impression.
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David Stocker, RPT
PNWRVP
Olympia WA
Original Message:
Sent: 09-12-2017 16:51
From: Larry Messerly
Subject: Tuning from A0
David, I respectfully disagree. I believe that it is tuning unisons as you go that leads to the stability. And checking back with intervals to see if any unisons are wavering.
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Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
Original Message:
Sent: 09-12-2017 16:15
From: David Stocker
Subject: Tuning from A0
Dr. Sanderson arrived at this method empirically. He tuned a bunch of pianos and measured how things changed. His conclusion was that it was more stable after tuning from A0, all strings along the way, than from the middle.
Tuning aurally (which I did for 17 years), we have to start in the middle to establish a temperament. Multiple passes are necessary to arrive at stability. The end result is stability, and I don't think either method is necessarily superior over time. Personally, I'd rather do fewer passes, take less time, and make more money.
As to why it works, I would say it has to do with how we add a load to the structure of the piano. Tuning one string per note we are adding a partial load to the system. On the second pass, we are adding the rest of the load to a system that has already changed from the first pass. I think of this being like tightening wheel lugs. It is done in a star pattern in multiple passes to bring the entire wheel into solid contact all around the drum or plate.
Tuning from A0 is more like adding a load to a bridge, starting at one end, adding all the weight incrementally until you reach the other end. The bridge will settle as you go, and by the time you reach the other end the rest of the bridge has settled as far as it will go. Tuning aurally is as if we add 1/3 of the weight to the bridge, starting in the middle and working toward the ends. It will settle some, but not all of the way. The second pass will bring it the rest of the way. The engineering question is, which way will distort the bridge in the best way for the materials and the design.
The structure of a piano flexes as we tune. If it weren't so, pitch raising wouldn't be necessary. The question is how to handle that flexibility.
I heard this in one of Dr. Sanderson's classes just before the SAT happened. He was in the process of finalizing his FAC method. Based on his experiments he found the structure of the piano works this way: Tune from the bottom up. It is one of the reasons I was looking forward to the day an ETD got smart enough for me to want to use it.
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David Stocker, RPT
PNWRVP
Olympia WA
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