Yes, Yamaha's official position on DC Systems in a piano with any kind of electronic components is
controlled dehumidifiers only. However, the humidity created by a DC System is not the problem. If it were, Yamaha, and others, would never be able to sell pianos in half the world. Places like Miami, Hong Kong, and all of southeast Asia, among others, always have extremely high RH levels.The concern is the risk of spills. Keep in mind that the Humidifier in our System is powered by an 8W bar and it gets turned off when the RH reaches about 45%. We always recommend that installers go along with the manufacturer's stated position, especially in cases where the piano is still under warranty. However, if the piano owner understands that they are completely responsible for any damage created when they decided to move their U1SH into another room and water sloshes out of the tank when they hit a carpet transition strip, then that's their choice. I personally have never encountered this scenario actually happening, but it could.
In a vertical piano, the issue of whether the soundboard or the bridge is the culprit is kind of moot since they are both inside the same cavity as the DC System.
We are now shipping all grand Systems with the new Quick Release system which does indeed allow you to remove the tank in about 5 seconds. It absolutely makes servicing much easier. It is also available in a retrofit kit. For a whopping $7.47, you can update any Universal tank System. I had a tech from NY call last week and order 48 of the kits after installing a new System with the QR system. I guess he likes it.
BTW, I am working on a new and hopefully improved undercover. Stand by.
Additionally, don't bother counting on MusicSorb providing adequate humidification in any climate that gets even slightly dry, never mind a place like Prince George, B.C. It just doesn't have the water holding capacity.
As always, please let me know of any issues you encounter or questions that come up. We do actually listen and we try to make improvements as best we can.
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Charles Rempel
Dampp-Chaser Corp.
HENDERSONVILLE NC
828-692-8271
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Original Message:
Sent: 09-03-2017 23:44
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Damp-Chaser in Yamaha Silent Piano
Hello Scott,
Every six months the pads get changed. That takes about 20 seconds for an upright and maybe a minute for a grand. For a grand with an undercover I would need to add another few minutes.
Every year it gets a thorough cleaning, which means that the liner gets replaced, the pads changed, the clean sleeve replaced, and the gunk on the smart bracket cleaned off. It takes about five minutes, and an extra couple minutes for a grand.
Removing the tank from a grand is not a big deal after you do it a lot of times. That said, I am still young and flexible and have no problems climbing around underneath a grand piano. Once or twice I have run into a system that someone else installed that made the removal of the tank a pain. In those cases I have taken the extra 5 or 10 minutes to reroute the wires and/or clips so that I don't have to fiddle around with it every time it gets serviced.
The good news is that Dampp-Chaser has just developed a new grand tank mounting system that makes it even easier to remove. I don't remember all the details, but the new information should be out shortly. Charles Rempel was showing it off in St. Louis. He says that it can be removed in about 5 seconds.
The undercover is a bit of a pain. Those tacks are always bending and breaking. Even when I install an undercover that I think looks really neat and tidy after several years of service the tidiness tend to degrade as the velcro squares start to come off of the cover. Back when Tim Barnes was selling the EasyInstall undercovers I usually installed those instead and I certainly appreciate that choice now. There are some other clever ideas about how to approach this; if I remember correctly Fred Sturm uses some kind of hook-and-grommet strategy. I haven't tried any of these out, but I know that DC is aware of this problem. I think they might have an improvement coming out for this as well.
Now that I think about it, there is a real problem with servicing back-side systems. I have only ever installed one of these before, and removing the tanks for servicing is quite difficult. With those systems I must admit that I do not service them as regularly or extensively as I do the other systems.
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Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianos.com
Original Message:
Sent: 09-03-2017 14:19
From: Scott Kerns
Subject: Damp-Chaser in Yamaha Silent Piano
That makes sense. I was trying find info on the web but not having success so, if you don't mind Peter, I have some other questions. What does servicing involve other than changing the pads and liner? The uprights are pretty easy to get to, so I get that, but I've serviced a few grands and whew, they are literally a pain in the neck (and other parts too). Especially the ones with the cloth under the piano. Do you charge for grands? Is there a secret to servicing those?
You might wonder what my goal here is. I'd like to have an accurate assessment of MusicSorb vs. Dampp-Chaser. For example, as I'm writing this I was thinking there is also the cost of the water treatment and, if the owners time is worth something, there's the time it takes to get out the water can fill it up and put it in the piano a couple times a month. But, you really can't calculate that in dollars it's just what I call "the hassle factor". And, of course, this is assuming that both systems work equally well. I have my anecdotal situations and so do you, so, for the sake of discussion, I'm going to assume they both do what they say they do.
Thanks for your patience and help Peter!
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"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
www.thattuningguy.com
Tunic OnlyPure & TuneLab user
Original Message:
Sent: 09-03-2017 12:36
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Damp-Chaser in Yamaha Silent Piano
I cod not charge anything extra to service the DC system. I find that the tunings go quicker because of the extra stability so I don't mind taking the time to service the system. I also do the suggested routine of pad changes every 6 months and lining changes every 12 months. However, I do charge for replacement pad treatment.
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Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianos.com
Original Message:
Sent: 09-03-2017 12:27
From: Scott Kerns
Subject: Damp-Chaser in Yamaha Silent Piano
"MusicSorb might be a good option, but it is awfully expensive if it really does need to be replaced every year. And I'm not sure how its effectiveness compares with a Dampp-Chaser when the humidity drops below 20%."
I don't charge as much as the website lists. I'm sure that over time (several years) that MusicSorb is more expensive. On the other hand, with DC you have the unit cost with installation cost, so an initial expense and regular maintenance. I have wondered what people charge to service a DC system and how often that needs to be done. If it needs serviced once a year, then MusicSorb could actually be less expensive without the initial output of several hundred dollars. I've had good results with MusicSorb and I wouldn't say that it's as good as DC, but, I've seen a lot of DC units unplugged, broken or just not maintained so in those situations it certainly would be better than nothing. It's also nice in a situation where the pianos are moved around a lot so the DC unit doesn't stay plugged in.
Not too long ago there was a big discussion about what actually makes a piano go out of tune. Movement of the soundboard or movement of the bridge. The situations where MusicSorb works very well indicate that movement of the bridge is the main culprit because it sits inside next to the bridge, on a grand. I have a 9' grand I service once a month with MusicSorb in it and it rarely moves more than 2-3 cents month to month. It's kept totally closed all the time and is sealed up with weather stripping. The church put it on there to control the sound but a side benefit was that it controlled the humidity! They don't even use the music stand. They modified a Manhasset stand to sit on top of the piano. So, it seems the key to MusicSorb and humidity control in general, is to keep the area enclosed.
I know I'm taking this thread in a different direction and really I don't mean this to be a sales pitch for MusicSorb but these are things I ponder and thought it might be interesting to others.
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"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
www.thattuningguy.com
Tunic OnlyPure & TuneLab user
Original Message:
Sent: 09-03-2017 00:18
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Damp-Chaser in Yamaha Silent Piano
Thanks for all your input. In my environment, humidity is what is needed. Just installing a dehumidifier isn't going to do much of anything. And although the client can humidify their room, that often creates problems with condensation and mold in my area.
I understand that moisture and electronics don't mix and that the safest bet is it just not do it. I am just trying to gauge the risk level. I mean, the Damp-Chaser system itself has electronics, but we don't worry about all those plugs and the humidistat being so close to the humidifier. And just to clarify, the actual electronic box on the U1SH is outside of the piano. The only parts that are near the humidifier are the cables and the power supply. And if I taped them off with waterproof tape like gaffer tape, is there really a reasonable amount of risk involved?
MusicSorb might be a good option, but it is awfully expensive if it really does need to be replaced every year. And I'm not sure how its effectiveness compares with a Dampp-Chaser when the humidity drops below 20%.
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Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianos.com
Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2017 22:35
From: Scott Kerns
Subject: Damp-Chaser in Yamaha Silent Piano
I'd suggest you consider another product all together: MusicSorb
It sure seems to me that water & electronics are a dangerous combination.
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"That Tuning Guy"
Scott Kerns
www.thattuningguy.com
Tunic OnlyPure & TuneLab user
Original Message:
Sent: 09-02-2017 16:17
From: Peter Stevenson
Subject: Damp-Chaser in Yamaha Silent Piano
Hello all,
Has anyone installed a Dampp-Chaser in a silent piano? I was asked to do this once in an old MP80T but since they didn't use the silent function at all I ended up dismantling the system. However, I have now been asked about installing a Dampp-Chaser in a new Yamaha U1SH. Unlike the MP80T, none of the electronics are anywhere near the humidifier. The only issues that I could think of are the power source on the other side of the soundboard and the wire connections:
I was thinking of just covering these up with electricians' tape. However, I am aware that Yamaha Canada's official recommendation is no humidity control system in their hybrid pianos. Does anyone anticipate any problems with this scenario?
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Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianos.com
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