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Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

  • 1.  Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-15-2018 18:29
    Hello All,

    This week's tips for the efficient tuner is here. Enjoy!

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    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
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  • 2.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Posted 01-15-2018 19:57
    One of the best tips I got at a PTG convention was on how to avoid this kind of injury. The instructor said really all the force we need for a test blow is letting the arm/hand fall and keep the fingers relaxed (using two fingers and a thumb is better than one or two fingers). Just the weight of the arm and hand in a free-fall is plenty for most of what we encounter.  We don't really need to be adding much force (if any) to a test blow. That is...as long as the lever technique is good. Lever technique is king.

    I've found that tuning twice is the best thing for stability. I don't play loud or do test blows the first pass. Test blows on the second pass, and never a crashing-smashing test blow. It doesn't move much usually. With time, one becomes more confident and doesn't need to do extreme test blows. Ron Nossaman was fond of stating that rapid, moderately loud tuning blows will stabilize better than a single massive blow. He was right, and that will save your joints as well.

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    John Formsma, RPT
    New Albany MS
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  • 3.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Posted 01-15-2018 21:21
    aye...as John said..."Lever technique is king".

    I don't now, and have never slammed the keys...actually, I will play the note only in a musical fashion, and mostly tune at mf. Sometimes quieter, listening for fine pitch movement or non-movement as the lever plays with non-speaking segment tension.

    I agree with Ben...attention to ergonomics is non-negotiable...pay attention or you lose.   


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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 4.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-15-2018 23:02
    "Pay attention or you lose."

    Jim, thank you for saying it like that. That's the truth, and it's so important to understand it, both on a professional level and a personal one.

    I totally agree with John, the force of dropping your arm is enough for a tuning blow, and a test blow. Although I was never a "beat the livin' daylights out of it" tuner, I used the three finger technique John described, but still developed joint problems (which thankfully have gone away for the most part). Thus I began using a key pounder. Even now, I don't think I hit the keys any louder than a MF blow, except very rarely. Perhaps a better name would be "artificial finger devise." More accurate, if not easier on the tongue.

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    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
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  • 5.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-16-2018 10:26
    One tuner suggested that I try to master turning the pin at the same instant as pounding the key. I think sometimes it does improve stability.


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    Scott Cole
    Talent OR
    541-601-9033
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  • 6.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Posted 01-16-2018 11:04
    Yes, if you're talking about tuning during the "attack" of the sound, and not during the decay. It really does help one tune faster and more precisely. Read Ron Nossaman's posts in the archives

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    John Formsma, RPT
    New Albany MS
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  • 7.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-16-2018 11:27
    Isn't the force of the blow dependent on the particular piano, and the inherent friction of the string routing and force required to break that friction?

    Which leads to (yet) another question:
    I've tuned a few Steinway verticals, but recently had the misfortune to come across a really beastly one from 1940. I had to walk away from that one. In fact, the owner has had trouble finding anyone in the area. I was told by the owner that when the model was told to prospective tuners over the phone, said tuners were suddenly "too busy."


    Here's the question about these pianos that I haven't seen addressed in the forums (I've looked back at discussions on Steinway verticals): I've heard that some techs lubricate bearing points, but I've not found that lubricant has helped.

    What is the downside of loosening the pressure bar? Surely it must be part of the problem. I'd think the big danger is that a screw come totally out--you'd have to guess how far you could go. It would have to have some down bearing of course.

    Naturally the pitch of the entire section will fall, but in the end will it help? Has anyone tried it?

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    Scott Cole
    Talent OR
    541-601-9033
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  • 8.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Posted 01-16-2018 12:53
    Great question, Scott, concerning the Steinway uprights.  I think it might be a good idea if a new appropriately-titled thread were to be started for the replies to this question, to make it easier to find in the future, since this will continue to be an issue that technicians face.

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    Floyd Gadd
    Regina SK
    306-502-9103
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  • 9.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-16-2018 18:17
    John's point is a good one. I would add that it is speed and not force at the key that causes the hammer to strike the string with more speed/force. It is not necessary to have your finger pound the bottom of the key into the keybed to get a FFF sound (though I agree with several who have pointed out that it is better to tune - most of the time - at a far lower volume level). I think we psychologically feel the need to have our arms, wrists and fingers tense when playing nots while tuning. It is better to loosen up, have the joints be flexible.

    One technique is to use the drop/weight of the arm, and also use your wrist joint as a "shock absorber": leave your wrist relaxed, and allow it to give when the finger hits bottom. Another is to use the wrist to move the key: arm pretty much stable, wrist moves rapidly but without a whole lot of force, finger joint gives a bit when it bottoms out. There are several alternatives that will reduce joint fatigue to a minimum.

    Learning new techniques takes practice, but your joints will thank you 30 - 50 years from now (as well as sooner). I've been tuning 35 years, probably over 30,000 tunings, no chronic problems - but that is largely because I pay attention to my body, and notice when something is going wrong. Observe, figure out how to do it better, or a little differently. Switch postures, have a few alternative ways of doing things. There is no question that this profession can cause lots of physical problems, and you have to be pretty attentive and inventive to avoid them.

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    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
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  • 10.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Posted 01-16-2018 19:05
    Test blows are not need with proper hammer technique. Fred touched on a very important aspect: it is the speed of the key decent and not the force applied that produces the louder, controlled volume. I learned this from a piano teacher who studied under Tobias Matthay. My technique took a quantum leap in performance (such that it is).

    Strike the unison with two fingers to reduce impact. MF is all that is needed. Speed of repetition is dependent on octave. Lesser in bass, increasing to more rapid in the high treble. No 'test' blows required. Test blow are for novices.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
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  • 11.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Posted 01-16-2018 21:59
    <no chronic problems - but that is largely because I pay attention to my body, and notice when something is going wrong.

    I'd just like to emphasize what Fred said here...

    Sometimes, when folks say they've been without chronic problems,  its easy to get the impression that somehow, physically, they are singular charmed souls. This impression is mostly incorrect, as everyone has their own challenges...we just don't get to see those very private challenges often.

    Folks who have avoided chronic issues, have developed the self-awareness to check in with their bod' regularly, and to know when things are going wrong, early on in the progression, before its gets out of hand. They have also developed the ability to analyze what may be happening, the discipline to experiment with corrections as a regular habit of mind, and the wisdom to seek assistance when stumped. Being stumped happens...expect it, and makes moves to locate help when necessary.


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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 12.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-16-2018 22:15
    This is a good thread and I find myself nodding to all who have stressed being aware of your body while tuning.  I too have tuned for 45 years and have avoided chronic pain.  As a practical matter I would stress the importance of standing while tuning, both for grands and uprights.  Occasional sitting is acceptable, but by and large you have much better mechanical advantage while standing,  Your balance is better, your lower body is contributing and the reaching positions are more stable and less extended.

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    Carl Lieberman
    RPT
    Venice CA
    310-392-2771
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  • 13.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 5

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-18-2018 14:30
    The following is not in any way intended to minimize the chronic pain that many feel. The pain is real, and can be debilitating, however: 

    There is pain that comes from certain injuries that is temporary and goes away once healing takes place. Then there is chronic pain that often seems out of proportion to what the individual has been exposed to physically. Many years ago Dr. John Sarno (and a few others) began investigating whether some other issue was at work here. He found that very often (in fact almost universally), patients exhibiting various chronic pain syndromes actually had other highly stressful or long term stress situations going on in their lives, totally unrelated to the specific pain situation. He found that by educating the patient of the connection between the two, that the pain actually went away or improved dramatically. No medication, no therapy, no "treatment". Just education. Very interesting.

    The above is an encapsulation of quite a bit of material but is the gist of what he wrote about in "The Divided Mind". I encourage any who suffer from chronic pain of any sort to investigate his work. 

    The solution is often simple...not necessarily easy...but simple. Worth the read.

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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