Pianotech

------------------------------
Patrick Baron
Christiansted, VI

------------------------------

Gentleman;  I subscribed to this discussion in the interests of keeping abreast of the current state of skills, tools, techniques, theories, etc... for the sake of maintaining my connection to the community of professionals from which I, in my semi-retirement, am physically far removed.  While my participation has been entirely passive up to this point, the recent spate of venomous posts prompts me to weigh in.  I'd like to applaud members who, like Fred Strum, remain above the fray and confine their posts to relevant technical concerns, ignoring the nasty baiting swirl of vindictive.  I will likely unsubscribe to this thread in spite of the modest percentage of useful and interesting discussion for the sake of my peace of mind. 

------------------------------
Patrick Baron
Christiansted, VI

------------------------------

Gentleman;  I subscribed to this discussion in the interests of keeping abreast of the current state of skills, tools, techniques, theories, etc... for the sake of maintaining my connection to the community of professionals from which I, in my semi-retirement, am physically far removed.  While my participation has been entirely passive up to this point, the recent spate of venomous posts prompts me to weigh in.  I'd like to applaud members who, like Fred Strum, remain above the fray and confine their posts to relevant technical concerns, ignoring the nasty baiting swirl of vindictive.  I will likely unsubscribe to this thread in spite of the modest percentage of useful and interesting discussion for the sake of my peace of mind. 

Patrick

Please don't let the behavior of a few individuals cloud your vision of the whole group. As Larry suggested, just ignore and delete topics between people who make it bad for all of us. Despite a few bad apples, we are really a fun bunch, with a lot of good information to share.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 10:43
From: Patrick Baron
Subject: behavior

------------------------------
Patrick Baron
Christiansted, VI

------------------------------

Gentleman;  I subscribed to this discussion in the interests of keeping abreast of the current state of skills, tools, techniques, theories, etc... for the sake of maintaining my connection to the community of professionals from which I, in my semi-retirement, am physically far removed.  While my participation has been entirely passive up to this point, the recent spate of venomous posts prompts me to weigh in.  I'd like to applaud members who, like Fred Strum, remain above the fray and confine their posts to relevant technical concerns, ignoring the nasty baiting swirl of vindictive.  I will likely unsubscribe to this thread in spite of the modest percentage of useful and interesting discussion for the sake of my peace of mind. 

Indeed, here is an example of how fun someone like Wim Blees actually is [from a post that he wrote to Keith McGavern]:

Wim Blees said: "But be careful with how "loudly" you defend [name omitted]. By your actions you are getting very close to having people on this list who will request that you are asked to leave. ..."

Keith McGavern: Another be careful comment. Very weird. That makes two.

Sadly, Keith died shortly after that post. Was there a connection? I don't know--I wasn't there--but threats and intimidations like these should never be acceptable in a professional organisation. Keith was defending the greater good, and Win Blees openly tried to intimidate him in front of the entire organisation. That is disgusting. This documented pattern of inappropriate behaviour is what I find morally objectionable. Even a rudimentary scanning of the archives reveals just how "fun" people are with each other. 

------------------------------
Bradley Snook
Houston
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 14:17
From: Willem Blees
Subject: behavior

Patrick

Please don't let the behavior of a few individuals cloud your vision of the whole group. As Larry suggested, just ignore and delete topics between people who make it bad for all of us. Despite a few bad apples, we are really a fun bunch, with a lot of good information to share.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 10:43
From: Patrick Baron
Subject: behavior

------------------------------
Patrick Baron
Christiansted, VI

------------------------------

Gentleman;  I subscribed to this discussion in the interests of keeping abreast of the current state of skills, tools, techniques, theories, etc... for the sake of maintaining my connection to the community of professionals from which I, in my semi-retirement, am physically far removed.  While my participation has been entirely passive up to this point, the recent spate of venomous posts prompts me to weigh in.  I'd like to applaud members who, like Fred Strum, remain above the fray and confine their posts to relevant technical concerns, ignoring the nasty baiting swirl of vindictive.  I will likely unsubscribe to this thread in spite of the modest percentage of useful and interesting discussion for the sake of my peace of mind. 

Sadly, Keith died shortly after that post. Was there a connection? I don't know--I wasn't there

What a vile insinuation. For all your ardent claims of being maligned and persecuted, I'm fairly confident that no one here has insinuated that your behavior may or may not have lead to someone's death.

Disgusting.

------------------------------
Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
http://www.asbpianoservice.com
Omaha, NE
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 14:56
From: Bradley Snook
Subject: behavior

Indeed, here is an example of how fun someone like Wim Blees actually is [from a post that he wrote to Keith McGavern]:

Wim Blees said: "But be careful with how "loudly" you defend [name omitted]. By your actions you are getting very close to having people on this list who will request that you are asked to leave. ..."

Keith McGavern: Another be careful comment. Very weird. That makes two.

Sadly, Keith died shortly after that post. Was there a connection? I don't know--I wasn't there--but threats and intimidations like these should never be acceptable in a professional organisation. Keith was defending the greater good, and Win Blees openly tried to intimidate him in front of the entire organisation. That is disgusting. This documented pattern of inappropriate behaviour is what I find morally objectionable. Even a rudimentary scanning of the archives reveals just how "fun" people are with each other. 

------------------------------
Bradley Snook
Houston
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 14:17
From: Willem Blees
Subject: behavior

Patrick

Please don't let the behavior of a few individuals cloud your vision of the whole group. As Larry suggested, just ignore and delete topics between people who make it bad for all of us. Despite a few bad apples, we are really a fun bunch, with a lot of good information to share.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 10:43
From: Patrick Baron
Subject: behavior

------------------------------
Patrick Baron
Christiansted, VI

------------------------------

Gentleman;  I subscribed to this discussion in the interests of keeping abreast of the current state of skills, tools, techniques, theories, etc... for the sake of maintaining my connection to the community of professionals from which I, in my semi-retirement, am physically far removed.  While my participation has been entirely passive up to this point, the recent spate of venomous posts prompts me to weigh in.  I'd like to applaud members who, like Fred Strum, remain above the fray and confine their posts to relevant technical concerns, ignoring the nasty baiting swirl of vindictive.  I will likely unsubscribe to this thread in spite of the modest percentage of useful and interesting discussion for the sake of my peace of mind. 

OK, enough is enough.  Mr. Snook, there are thousands of PTG members who have done nothing to you, said nothing to you, hurt you in no way, said nothing about you, disparaged your theories - and yet you lump all PTG members in the same group.  I, among many are offended by that. You owe thousands of PTG members an apology.  To PTG members involved, how is all of this nonsense - by any of you, in any way productive?  How hard is it  to skip over posts that do not affect you?  How is it, in any way furthering what the PTG stands for and what the free exchange of ideas can stimulate in the way of new understanding for any of us, PTG or not?  It is far past time to stop these ridiculous threads and name calling.  Were there threats made to harm someone? - not in any way, shape or even stretch of the imagination. Dragging out deceased members emails crosses a line that shouldn't be crossed.  There is nothing to gain except furthering this wasteful nonsense. I cannot understand why anyone would stay in this group if they do not gain from it.  No one gains from this nonsense.  I would love to check my emails and not have all this childish behavior listed for all to see.  Tomorrow is a new day.  Let us all try harder to accept each others ideas and stop this name calling.

------------------------------
Stephen Grattan- Proud Associate Member PTG
Port Huron MI
810-984-2757
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 15:17
From: Adam Schulte-Bukowinski
Subject: behavior

Sadly, Keith died shortly after that post. Was there a connection? I don't know--I wasn't there

What a vile insinuation. For all your ardent claims of being maligned and persecuted, I'm fairly confident that no one here has insinuated that your behavior may or may not have lead to someone's death.

Disgusting.

------------------------------
Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
http://www.asbpianoservice.com
Omaha, NE
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 14:56
From: Bradley Snook
Subject: behavior

Indeed, here is an example of how fun someone like Wim Blees actually is [from a post that he wrote to Keith McGavern]:

Wim Blees said: "But be careful with how "loudly" you defend [name omitted]. By your actions you are getting very close to having people on this list who will request that you are asked to leave. ..."

Keith McGavern: Another be careful comment. Very weird. That makes two.

Sadly, Keith died shortly after that post. Was there a connection? I don't know--I wasn't there--but threats and intimidations like these should never be acceptable in a professional organisation. Keith was defending the greater good, and Win Blees openly tried to intimidate him in front of the entire organisation. That is disgusting. This documented pattern of inappropriate behaviour is what I find morally objectionable. Even a rudimentary scanning of the archives reveals just how "fun" people are with each other. 

------------------------------
Bradley Snook
Houston
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 14:17
From: Willem Blees
Subject: behavior

Patrick

Please don't let the behavior of a few individuals cloud your vision of the whole group. As Larry suggested, just ignore and delete topics between people who make it bad for all of us. Despite a few bad apples, we are really a fun bunch, with a lot of good information to share.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 10:43
From: Patrick Baron
Subject: behavior

------------------------------
Patrick Baron
Christiansted, VI

------------------------------

Gentleman;  I subscribed to this discussion in the interests of keeping abreast of the current state of skills, tools, techniques, theories, etc... for the sake of maintaining my connection to the community of professionals from which I, in my semi-retirement, am physically far removed.  While my participation has been entirely passive up to this point, the recent spate of venomous posts prompts me to weigh in.  I'd like to applaud members who, like Fred Strum, remain above the fray and confine their posts to relevant technical concerns, ignoring the nasty baiting swirl of vindictive.  I will likely unsubscribe to this thread in spite of the modest percentage of useful and interesting discussion for the sake of my peace of mind. 

All

Once again I feel a need to remind everyone of the Code of Conduct to which we all agreed.  If you need a refresher go to the bottom of the Home page and click on Code of Conduct.  Lately several members have skated very close to the out of bounds line and a few have dangled their toes over the line.  Before we all regret things that have been said please remember that the lists exist for the exchange of ideas and information.  It is easy to become passionate about your particular position or methodology but we need to respect the persons behind the posts.  I hope many of you will come to Denver and exchange ideas in person and even dare to sit down to a meal with someone with whom you may have disagreed and see if you can embrace the person and respect the ideas exchanged.

President for a couple more weeks.

------------------------------
Norman Cantrell
Piano Clinic
Lawton OK
580-355-5003
------------------------------

-------------------------------------------

All

Once again I feel a need to remind everyone of the Code of Conduct to which we all agreed.  If you need a refresher go to the bottom of the Home page and click on Code of Conduct.  Lately several members have skated very close to the out of bounds line and a few have dangled their toes over the line.  Before we all regret things that have been said please remember that the lists exist for the exchange of ideas and information.  It is easy to become passionate about your particular position or methodology but we need to respect the persons behind the posts.  I hope many of you will come to Denver and exchange ideas in person and even dare to sit down to a meal with someone with whom you may have disagreed and see if you can embrace the person and respect the ideas exchanged.

President for a couple more weeks.

------------------------------
Norman Cantrell
Piano Clinic
Lawton OK
580-355-5003
------------------------------

-------------------------------------------

Thank you, Norm, for the reminder.

And thank you, too, for all your service to the PTG. It is greatly appreciated.

Denver?????   Where's that?  (big grin)

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 22:21
From: Norman Cantrell
Subject: behavior

All

Once again I feel a need to remind everyone of the Code of Conduct to which we all agreed.  If you need a refresher go to the bottom of the Home page and click on Code of Conduct.  Lately several members have skated very close to the out of bounds line and a few have dangled their toes over the line.  Before we all regret things that have been said please remember that the lists exist for the exchange of ideas and information.  It is easy to become passionate about your particular position or methodology but we need to respect the persons behind the posts.  I hope many of you will come to Denver and exchange ideas in person and even dare to sit down to a meal with someone with whom you may have disagreed and see if you can embrace the person and respect the ideas exchanged.

President for a couple more weeks.

------------------------------
Norman Cantrell
Piano Clinic
Lawton OK
580-355-5003
------------------------------

-------------------------------------------

All

Once again I feel a need to remind everyone of the Code of Conduct to which we all agreed.  If you need a refresher go to the bottom of the Home page and click on Code of Conduct.  Lately several members have skated very close to the out of bounds line and a few have dangled their toes over the line.  Before we all regret things that have been said please remember that the lists exist for the exchange of ideas and information.  It is easy to become passionate about your particular position or methodology but we need to respect the persons behind the posts.  I hope many of you will come to Denver and exchange ideas in person and even dare to sit down to a meal with someone with whom you may have disagreed and see if you can embrace the person and respect the ideas exchanged.

President for a couple more weeks.

------------------------------
Norman Cantrell
Piano Clinic
Lawton OK
580-355-5003
------------------------------

-------------------------------------------

it was a nice place until Snookums got on board.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

From the Code of Conduct: 'Don't challenge or attack others. The discussions and comments are meant to stimulate conversation not to create contention. Let others have their say, just as you may.'

Ashley Turner, RPT

Ethics Committee

------------------------------
Ashley Turner
Ashburn, VA
703-657-9404
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 19:21
From: Jon Page
Subject: behavior

it was a nice place until Snookums got on board.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

Ron

I believe in this context, the word challenge is meant to in the controversial sense, like "I challenge you to a fight".

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-02-2015 01:02
From: Ronald Nossaman
Subject: behavior

> From the Code of Conduct: 'Don't challenge or attack others. The
> discussions and comments are meant to stimulate conversation not to
> create contention. Let others have their say, just as you may.'

I must protest on one point. Challenge is absolutely necessary to bring
some of the other worldly claims made into the realm of physical
reality. The current idea that all opinions carry equal weight and
deserve equal consideration is hideous to anyone concerned and having
made any attempt to contain themselves to said physical reality.
Contention is, universally, the product of ignorance. If everyone knows,
there is no disagreement. Disagreement, therefor, is the result of
ignorance. A realistic discussion should, in a viable species, result in
a tacit agreement on some basic truth, even when the truth is that we
don't know enough to say one way or another. "I don't know" is among the
least stated opinions of the technical world in any category you can name.
Ron N

OK, enough is enough.  Mr. Snook, there are thousands of PTG members who have done nothing to you, said nothing to you, hurt you in no way, said nothing about you, disparaged your theories - and yet you lump all PTG members in the same group.  I, among many are offended by that. You owe thousands of PTG members an apology.  To PTG members involved, how is all of this nonsense - by any of you, in any way productive?  How hard is it  to skip over posts that do not affect you?  How is it, in any way furthering what the PTG stands for and what the free exchange of ideas can stimulate in the way of new understanding for any of us, PTG or not?  It is far past time to stop these ridiculous threads and name calling.  Were there threats made to harm someone? - not in any way, shape or even stretch of the imagination. Dragging out deceased members emails crosses a line that shouldn't be crossed.  There is nothing to gain except furthering this wasteful nonsense. I cannot understand why anyone would stay in this group if they do not gain from it.  No one gains from this nonsense.  I would love to check my emails and not have all this childish behavior listed for all to see.  Tomorrow is a new day.  Let us all try harder to accept each others ideas and stop this name calling.

------------------------------
Stephen Grattan- Proud Associate Member PTG
Port Huron MI
810-984-2757
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 15:17
From: Adam Schulte-Bukowinski
Subject: behavior

Sadly, Keith died shortly after that post. Was there a connection? I don't know--I wasn't there

What a vile insinuation. For all your ardent claims of being maligned and persecuted, I'm fairly confident that no one here has insinuated that your behavior may or may not have lead to someone's death.

Disgusting.

------------------------------
Adam Schulte-Bukowinski, RPT
http://www.asbpianoservice.com
Omaha, NE
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 14:56
From: Bradley Snook
Subject: behavior

Indeed, here is an example of how fun someone like Wim Blees actually is [from a post that he wrote to Keith McGavern]:

Wim Blees said: "But be careful with how "loudly" you defend [name omitted]. By your actions you are getting very close to having people on this list who will request that you are asked to leave. ..."

Keith McGavern: Another be careful comment. Very weird. That makes two.

Sadly, Keith died shortly after that post. Was there a connection? I don't know--I wasn't there--but threats and intimidations like these should never be acceptable in a professional organisation. Keith was defending the greater good, and Win Blees openly tried to intimidate him in front of the entire organisation. That is disgusting. This documented pattern of inappropriate behaviour is what I find morally objectionable. Even a rudimentary scanning of the archives reveals just how "fun" people are with each other. 

------------------------------
Bradley Snook
Houston
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 14:17
From: Willem Blees
Subject: behavior

Patrick

Please don't let the behavior of a few individuals cloud your vision of the whole group. As Larry suggested, just ignore and delete topics between people who make it bad for all of us. Despite a few bad apples, we are really a fun bunch, with a lot of good information to share.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------


Original Message:
Sent: 07-01-2015 10:43
From: Patrick Baron
Subject: behavior

------------------------------
Patrick Baron
Christiansted, VI

------------------------------

Gentleman;  I subscribed to this discussion in the interests of keeping abreast of the current state of skills, tools, techniques, theories, etc... for the sake of maintaining my connection to the community of professionals from which I, in my semi-retirement, am physically far removed.  While my participation has been entirely passive up to this point, the recent spate of venomous posts prompts me to weigh in.  I'd like to applaud members who, like Fred Strum, remain above the fray and confine their posts to relevant technical concerns, ignoring the nasty baiting swirl of vindictive.  I will likely unsubscribe to this thread in spite of the modest percentage of useful and interesting discussion for the sake of my peace of mind.