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Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

  • 1.  Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Member
    Posted 02-11-2016 12:24
      |   view attached
    Hi All -

    I am rebuilding an 1893 Steinway "vertigrand" (full size) that has an interesting sostenuto mechanism. A metal bar or rod is lifted when the sostenuto pedal is depressed. Originally there was some kind of soft "tubular" cloth material that was slipped over the rod before the entire assembly was (apparently) welded together. This cloth has pretty much disintegrated, but it would seem important to reduce metallic noise when the sostenuto is used.

    Any thoughts or ideas on how and what to replace this old material with? Attached photo is not great, but problem should be obvious.

    Many thanks for advice!

    Dave Hankin
    HSU



  • 2.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-11-2016 12:33
    Hi Dave:
    I just got done recently with this same action. In my ignorance, since it was old, I didn't realize that the covering wasn't dirt, and so I sanded one section off, too late to realize my mistake. I didn't replace it. I would have used shrink tubing, but that wouldn't work, obviously. You could use some kind of rubber/vinyl paint (Plasti-Dip) or liquid insulation. In any case, it would still work. How much it would matter if it made some clicking sound I'm not sure. It's a sostenuto mechanism that I'd never seen before, and created a nightmare when I tried to reassemble the action. It's a real chinese-puzzle in reality.
    We ARE having fun.. right?
    Paul McCloud
    San Diego




  • 3.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Posted 02-11-2016 12:46
    It's just that sort of thing that made me a fan of digital cameras. Five
    minutes produces a dozen "befores", and saves time and blood pressure on
    reassembly.
    Ron N




  • 4.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-11-2016 13:21
    Good advice, as always. But I'm not even sure if "before-photos" would have saved the day. You can see what it does pretty clearly in person. But the fact that the dampers and hammer share the same flange creates a bit of a quandary. The sostenuto rails are attached to swing-arms which pivot on the action brackets. With the hammers on the end of the shanks, it's difficult to replace the whole assembly once the flanges are attached and both hammer butts and dampers are in place. You have to figure out if you want to install one or the other first, and if the end result is going to work out. Since the swing arms fit between the hammer shanks, there's very little room to maneuver the sos rail while you install it. Unless you've done this before, there's no way to describe it in words.
    The other challenge of the job was that the spring rail had become unglued from the attaching blocks which screw to the action brackets. Several attempts by previous technician(s) didn't work well either. The old blocks were broken, and I'm not even sure they were made correctly in the factory. The fact that the whole thing had come unglued means to me that there was a design flaw. The whole piano wound up DOA in a thrift store.

    Paul McCloud




  • 5.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Posted 02-11-2016 12:43
    No first hand information on this one, but I'd look at gluing thin
    bushing cloth or leather on the contact surface. PVC-E if there is
    enough surface, or Shoe Goo if it needs better grip.
    Ron N




  • 6.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Member
    Posted 02-11-2016 19:05

    Not sure if this will work but I had a Petrof with a lid lock that vibrated inside sympathetically when the piano was played in octave 5. I tried to get a replacement lock but the only one I could get would not fit. I ended up taking the lock out and used rubber electrical paint that comes in a can with a brush. I painted every piece of metal in the mechanism . when it dried it was like shrink tubing and the lock did not make any noise at all

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357



  • 7.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Member
    Posted 02-11-2016 19:26
    Very interesting idea, James!

    I just found some very fine "windshield wiper tubing" at an auto parts store. I am hoping that if I can cut through one side reasonably well, then I can push the tubing over the rod and achieve a nice result. If that does not work, then I will explore your idea. It is a neat one.

    Thanks so much.

    Dave





  • 8.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-11-2016 19:34

    James,

    Linseed oil will do the same, a lot less trouble. It dries gummy, so it inhibits vibrations like that. Good for hinges as well - best application spot is the joints in the hinges where the metal is pulled around the pin (so to speak), the gap where the “tab” meets the body of the hinge. Painting some there will get it so flow into the space between the pin and the hinge. I don’t think there is a significant difference between “boiled" and raw linseed oil for this application. 
     
    Not any good for the Steinway upright sostenuto rod, though, and your electrical tape paint might work well. Another thought: I don’t know how that is put together, but if the metal could be removed, and replaced with a well stretched cord of the right diameter. Seems like that's what they should have done in the first place. 
    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda



  • 9.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-11-2016 19:51
    The sostenuto rod is about the diameter of damper wire. The function of the sostenuto wire is to catch a pointed wire which attaches to the damper heads. That wire is formed into an upside down "U" shape with the open end tapered to a point. The wire comes out of the damper head and extends back behind the damper head like a claw pointed down. When the sos rod is swung into position, the swing arms pivot upwards beneath the pointed wire and (being attached to the damper head), it holds the damper head open to sustain that note. Only notes with their wire "claw" in position to be caught will be held by the sostenuto wire. To respond to Fred's suggestion, a limp piece of cord will not fulfill the function very well. Without the cover on the sos wire (rod) there will be a tiny click as the damper wire and sostenuto rod make contact. That's all the cover is for. Gluing some bushing cloth on there, as Ron suggested, would probably work just fine.
    IMHO.
    Paul McCloud
    San Diego




  • 10.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Member
    Posted 02-11-2016 21:04
      |   view attached

    I used a high quality straight pair of fly-tying scissors to cut the windshied wiper tubing that I purchased at a local auto parts store. It's reasonably stick but flexible and has an interior diameter that is very close to the sostenuto rod. I think this will work very nicely and if it does not it will be very easy to remove.

    Thanks to all for ideas!

    Dave

    ------------------------------
    David Hankin
    Trinidad CA
    707-677-0633



  • 11.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-11-2016 22:20
    Ah, so it is above and not below. The ones I have seen have an extension wire at the bottom of the damper lever, and the sostenuto rod rises to catch them. It wants to be flexible so when the other dampers' (the ones not caught) press against it, it gives. I believe it is some sort of string rather than wire, but it has been some years since I saw one - ca. 1890. 

    Above, you would have more spring tension to resist, so that is probably why they went to wire. Isn't that how the Wurlitzer sostenuto worked, that came out in the 80s? I don't think I ever saw one, just saw the ads.
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, but a hammer with which to shape it." Brecht






  • 12.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-11-2016 22:41
    Hi Fred:
    I've not seen the Wurlitzer. I've seen the modern Steinway one, and the Mason-Hamlin upright sostenuto. This has the stickers coming out of the bottom, with a rubber "blade" that pivots up. I spent hours trying to adjust these. I never really got it to work right.
    This old Steinway arrangement must have taken eons to make, with all those bends, drilling holes, lift rods and swing arms. Sometimes I can't imagine how they were able to make a profit out of all that work.
    I'm amazed that this thing actually worked when I was done. Now I've got another one of similar age and design, sans the sos. Thank God!
    All for a pedal that almost no one uses. Go figger.
    Paul McCloud




  • 13.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Posted 02-11-2016 22:59
    Hi, Paul,

    It's been quite a while since I worked on one of these. They are similar to what I think was a factory retrofit on some (Baltimore) Knabes of a slightly earlier vintage...no magic bullets, at least none I ever found.

    That said, if you have access to either Roy Kehl's book, or, the earlier one by Ron Ratcliffe, you might be able to get some information from there patent listing (reasonably up to date at their respective dates of publication). From there, you can get descriptions and drawings (in PDF format) from either:

    Google Patents:

    Http://patents.google.com

    or,

    The U.S.Patent Office:

    www.uspto.gov

    From there, you can probably suss out what "might have been" the original intent.

    It's very important to remember that, even at this fairly late date, many piano companies, in addition to trying to survive the seldom-spoken-of non-great depreasion of 1803 - 1895, were literally engineering products on the production line...rather like the latter-day Thomas organs some may remember.

    Kind regards,

    Horace
      Original Message




  • 14.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-12-2016 01:22
    Hi, Horace:
    You sure know your history! I'm going to assume you're talking about the mechanism of the Knabe being identical with the Mason. If it was a retrofit, it sure looked like one. It seemed kind of funky and not of similar quality to the rest of the piano. There were long springs to hold it in place, sort of, and the rubber blade didn't seem to be very stable. Trying to bend those stickers while in the piano seemed impossible without some kind of bending tool; much like bending spoons in a spinet, it was almost impossible. And trying to regulate them on the bench was almost futile, since the dampers need to be on the strings to provide the exact location of the tip of the stickers. That's as I remember from about 10 years ago.
    Amazing what you learn over the years after much head scratching and hair pulling. Working on some pianos is sort of like going out on an archaeological dig. You never know what you're going to find buried beneath the rubble. Then, somebody says, "Dig here!", and you find something you never knew existed, or why.
    I'm not familiar with the two books you mentioned, sorry.
    Thanks for your information.
    Paul


    Hi, Paul, It's been quite a while since I worked on one of these. They are similar to what I think was a factory retrofit on some (Baltimore)... -posted to the "CAUT" community Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.

    CAUT

    Post New Message Re: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright
    Reply to Group Reply to Sender
    Horace Greeley Feb 11, 2016 10:59 PM
    Horace Greeley
    Hi, Paul,

    It's been quite a while since I worked on one of these. They are similar to what I think was a factory retrofit on some (Baltimore) Knabes of a slightly earlier vintage...no magic bullets, at least none I ever found.

    That said, if you have access to either Roy Kehl's book, or, the earlier one by Ron Ratcliffe, you might be able to get some information from there patent listing (reasonably up to date at their respective dates of publication). From there, you can get descriptions and drawings (in PDF format) from either:

    Google Patents:

    Http://patents.google.com

    or,

    The U.S.Patent Office:

    www.uspto.gov

    From there, you can probably suss out what "might have been" the original intent.

    It's very important to remember that, even at this fairly late date, many piano companies, in addition to trying to survive the seldom-spoken-of non-great depreasion of 1803 - 1895, were literally engineering products on the production line...rather like the latter-day Thomas organs some may remember.

    Kind regards,

    Horace




  • 15.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Posted 02-12-2016 16:32
    Hi, Paul,

    On 2/11/2016 10:22 PM, Paul McCloud via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
    > Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login. Hi, Horace: You
    > sure know your history! I'm going to assume you're talking about the
    > mechanism of the Knabe being identical with the Mason. If it was a
    > retrofit, it sure looked like one.

    I'm not sure that they were actual "identical" in the strict sense of
    the word (especially as M&H wasn't part of what became Aeolian-American
    until after 1928). That said, my memory is that they were very, very
    similar, at least. Yes...retrofit, I think; but, reasonably well done,
    for the period, and what they were trying to do.

    > It seemed kind of funky and not of similar quality to the rest of the
    > piano.

    Yup.

    > There were long springs to hold it in place, sort of, and the rubber
    > blade didn't seem to be very stable. Trying to bend those stickers
    > while in the piano seemed impossible without some kind of bending
    > tool; much like bending spoons in a spinet, it was almost impossible.
    > And trying to regulate them on the bench was almost futile, since the
    > dampers need to be on the strings to provide the exact location of the
    > tip of the stickers. That's as I remember from about 10 years ago.

    Yes; my memory, as well. Not any particular fun.

    > Amazing what you learn over the years after much head scratching and
    > hair pulling. Working on some pianos is sort of like going out on an
    > archaeological dig. You never know what you're going to find buried
    > beneath the rubble. Then, somebody says, "Dig here!", and you find
    > something you never knew existed, or why.

    Yup...with pianos from that period, there simply is no one-size-fits-all
    answer...for anything. The reason is actually very simple: There was
    so much that was actually done by hand that, no matter how beautifully
    things looked when finished/operational, there were countless
    discrepancies in endless measurements which meant that each instrument
    was, in fact, unique. Losing that perspective means that whatever work
    we do now simply misses the point. (Modern manufacturing processes,
    reasonably applied, have, of course, very much changed this picture.)

    > I'm not familiar with the two books you mentioned, sorry.

    No worries. They're very valuable resources. Some overlapping
    information; but different enough to warrant having both, I think.
    They're available here:

    Kehl, Roy: The Official Guide to Steinway Pianos ISBN: 9781574671988

    http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=18151256886&searchurl=sts%3Dt%26an%3DRoy%2520Kehl

    Ratcliffe, Ronald: Steinway ISBN: 9780877015925

    http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=15622160538&searchurl=bi%3D0%26ds%3D30%26sts%3Dt%26bx%3Doff%26sortby%3D17%26an%3DRonald%2520Ratcliffe%26recentlyadded%3Dall

    FWIW, I get many books from www.abebooks.com (The "abe" stands for
    "Amazon Book Exchange".) The reason is that while Amazon, itself, can
    often provide fairly quick and cost-effective response, the dark side of
    that is that Amazon is all about the client/purchaser. So, the vendor
    comes out on the short end of whatever problem may come up. ABEbooks,
    on the other hand, is (essentially) made up of nearly 15,000
    "independent" (or sort of so) vendors from around the globe.
    Importantly, the vendor policies work to make a more level playing field
    between vendor and purchaser, so, one winds up with a much wider range
    of potential purchasing situations (for certain kinds of books and
    publications). Obviously, YMMV; but, give abebooks a try.

    Best.

    Horace











    Thanks for your information. Paul Hi, Paul, It's been quite a while
    since I worked on one of these. They are similar to what I think was a
    factory retrofit on some (Baltimore)... -posted to the "CAUT" community
    Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login. CAUT Post New
    Message Re: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright Reply to Group Reply
    to Sender Horace Greeley Feb 11, 2016 10:59 PM Horace Greeley Hi, Paul,
    It's been quite a while since I worked on one of these. They are similar
    to what I think was a factory retrofit on some (Baltimore) Knabes of a
    slightly earlier vintage...no magic bullets, at least none I ever found.
    That said, if you have access to either Roy Kehl's book, or, the earlier
    one by Ron Ratcliffe, you might be able to get some information from
    there patent listing (reasonably up to date at their respective dates of
    publication). From there, you can get descriptions and drawings (in PDF
    format) from either: Google Patents: Http://patents.google.com or, The
    U.S.Patent Office: www.uspto.gov From there, you can probably suss out
    what "might have been" the original intent. It's very important to
    remember that, even at this fairly late date, many piano companies, in
    addition to trying to survive the seldom-spoken-of non-great depreasion
    of 1803 - 1895, were literally engineering products on the production
    line...rather like the latter-day Thomas organs some may remember. Kind
    regards, Horace


  • 16.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-12-2016 18:16
    Well, I guess I got it from the Horace's mouth. Thanks for the information.
    In regards to all the hand work, especially the square grands, there must have been a lot of "hungry" carpenter/cabinet people around to do all the carving and shaping of every square mm of the entire piano. Otherwise, how could they have kept the production cost lower than the selling price? Many of those big old uprights had pinstriping and artwork done to the plate where no one other than the tuner ever saw it. Those days are gone.
    Anyway, that's what makes this business so interesting. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye.

    Paul


    Hi, Paul,

    On 2/11/2016 10:22 PM, Paul McCloud via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
    > Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login. Hi, Horace: You
    > sure know your history! I'm going to assume you're talking about the
    > mechanism of the Knabe being identical with the Mason. If it was a
    > retrofit, it sure looked like one.

    I'm not sure that they were actual "identical" in the strict sense of
    the word (especially as M&H wasn't part of what became Aeolian-American
    until after 1928). That said, my memory is that they were very, very
    similar, at least. Yes...retrofit, I think; but, reasonably well done,
    for the period, and what they were trying to do.

    > It seemed kind of funky and not of similar quality to the rest of the
    > piano.

    Yup.

    > There were long springs to hold it in place, sort of, and the rubber
    > blade didn't seem to be very stable. Trying to bend those stickers
    > while in the piano seemed impossible without some kind of bending
    > tool; much like bending spoons in a spinet, it was almost impossible.
    > And trying to regulate them on the bench was almost futile, since the
    > dampers need to be on the strings to provide the exact location of the
    > tip of the stickers. That's as I remember from about 10 years ago.

    Yes; my memory, as well. Not any particular fun.

    > Amazing what you learn over the years after much head scratching and
    > hair pulling. Working on some pianos is sort of like going out on an
    > archaeological dig. You never know what you're going to find buried
    > beneath the rubble. Then, somebody says, "Dig here!", and you find
    > something you never knew existed, or why.

    Yup...with pianos from that period, there simply is no one-size-fits-all
    answer...for anything. The reason is actually very simple: There was
    so much that was actually done by hand that, no matter how beautifully
    things looked when finished/operational, there were countless
    discrepancies in endless measurements which meant that each instrument
    was, in fact, unique. Losing that perspective means that whatever work
    we do now simply misses the point. (Modern manufacturing processes,
    reasonably applied, have, of course, very much changed this picture.)

    > I'm not familiar with the two books you mentioned, sorry.

    No worries. They're very valuable resources. Some overlapping
    information; but different enough to warrant having both, I think.
    They're available here:

    Kehl, Roy: The Official Guide to Steinway Pianos ISBN: 9781574671988

    www.abebooks.com/servlet/...

    Ratcliffe, Ronald: Steinway ISBN: 9780877015925

    www.abebooks.com/servlet/...

    FWIW, I get many books from www.abebooks.com (The "abe" stands for
    "Amazon Book Exchange".) The reason is that while Amazon, itself, can
    often provide fairly quick and cost-effective response, the dark side of
    that is that Amazon is all about the client/purchaser. So, the vendor
    comes out on the short end of whatever problem may come up. ABEbooks,
    on the other hand, is (essentially) made up of nearly 15,000
    "independent" (or sort of so) vendors from around the globe.
    Importantly, the vendor policies work to make a more level playing field
    between vendor and purchaser, so, one winds up with a much wider range
    of potential purchasing situations (for certain kinds of books and
    publications). Obviously, YMMV; but, give abebooks a try.

    Best.

    Horace




  • 17.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Posted 02-12-2016 18:40
    Hi, Paul,

    On 2/12/2016 3:15 PM, Paul McCloud via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
    > Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
    >
    > Well, I guess I got it from the Horace's mouth. Thanks for the information.

    You're most welcome.

    > In regards to all the hand work, especially the square grands, there must have been a lot of "hungry" carpenter/cabinet people around to do all the carving and shaping of every square mm of the entire piano. Otherwise, how could they have kept the production cost lower than the selling price? Many of those big old uprights had pinstriping and artwork done to the plate where no one other than the tuner ever saw it. Those days are gone.

    It's important to remember that the largest immigrant group into the US
    in the middle part of the 19th Century were Germans. Importantly, many
    of them were piano and/or organ (HE Steinway, for example), and/or
    cabinet makers. Even after the widespread use of cast-iron plates, much
    that was done had as much to do with joinery and cabinetry as it did
    with making pianos. My favorite plates from that general area are the
    incredibly complex and wonderfully decorated ones done by firms like
    Weber and Chickering...many other examples. (Makes me crazy when some
    nit arbitrarily installs vertical hitch pins in these
    things...ridiculous misuse of technology.)

    > Anyway, that's what makes this business so interesting. There's a lot more to it than meets the eye.

    Yup...every piano is new each time one sees it...always something to learn.

    Kind regards.

    Horace



    >
    > Paul
    >
    >
    > Hi, Paul,
    >
    > On 2/11/2016 10:22 PM, Paul McCloud via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
    >> Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login. Hi, Horace: You
    >> sure know your history! I'm going to assume you're talking about the
    >> mechanism of the Knabe being identical with the Mason. If it was a
    >> retrofit, it sure looked like one.
    > I'm not sure that they were actual "identical" in the strict sense of
    > the word (especially as M&H wasn't part of what became Aeolian-American
    > until after 1928). That said, my memory is that they were very, very
    > similar, at least. Yes...retrofit, I think; but, reasonably well done,
    > for the period, and what they were trying to do.
    >
    >> It seemed kind of funky and not of similar quality to the rest of the
    >> piano.
    > Yup.
    >
    >> There were long springs to hold it in place, sort of, and the rubber
    >> blade didn't seem to be very stable. Trying to bend those stickers
    >> while in the piano seemed impossible without some kind of bending
    >> tool; much like bending spoons in a spinet, it was almost impossible.
    >> And trying to regulate them on the bench was almost futile, since the
    >> dampers need to be on the strings to provide the exact location of the
    >> tip of the stickers. That's as I remember from about 10 years ago.
    > Yes; my memory, as well. Not any particular fun.
    >
    >> Amazing what you learn over the years after much head scratching and
    >> hair pulling. Working on some pianos is sort of like going out on an
    >> archaeological dig. You never know what you're going to find buried
    >> beneath the rubble. Then, somebody says, "Dig here!", and you find
    >> something you never knew existed, or why.
    > Yup...with pianos from that period, there simply is no one-size-fits-all
    > answer...for anything. The reason is actually very simple: There was
    > so much that was actually done by hand that, no matter how beautifully
    > things looked when finished/operational, there were countless
    > discrepancies in endless measurements which meant that each instrument
    > was, in fact, unique. Losing that perspective means that whatever work
    > we do now simply misses the point. (Modern manufacturing processes,
    > reasonably applied, have, of course, very much changed this picture.)
    >
    >> I'm not familiar with the two books you mentioned, sorry.
    > No worries. They're very valuable resources. Some overlapping
    > information; but different enough to warrant having both, I think.
    > They're available here:
    >
    > Kehl, Roy: The Official Guide to Steinway Pianos ISBN: 9781574671988
    >
    > www.abebooks.com/servlet/...
    >
    > Ratcliffe, Ronald: Steinway ISBN: 9780877015925
    >
    > www.abebooks.com/servlet/...
    >
    > FWIW, I get many books from www.abebooks.com (The "abe" stands for
    > "Amazon Book Exchange".) The reason is that while Amazon, itself, can
    > often provide fairly quick and cost-effective response, the dark side of
    > that is that Amazon is all about the client/purchaser. So, the vendor
    > comes out on the short end of whatever problem may come up. ABEbooks,
    > on the other hand, is (essentially) made up of nearly 15,000
    > "independent" (or sort of so) vendors from around the globe.
    > Importantly, the vendor policies work to make a more level playing field
    > between vendor and purchaser, so, one winds up with a much wider range
    > of potential purchasing situations (for certain kinds of books and
    > publications). Obviously, YMMV; but, give abebooks a try.
    >
    > Best.
    >
    > Horace
    >
    >


  • 18.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Posted 02-12-2016 18:47
    > (Makes me crazy when some
    > nit arbitrarily installs vertical hitch pins in these
    > things...ridiculous misuse of technology.)

    That's going to need an explanation. You might well consider it
    desecration of an objet d'art, but someone might actually have
    considered function to trump bling.
    Ron N




  • 19.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-12-2016 18:45
    Paul,
    Your comment about regulating the M & H style sostenuto: I have one, a model 50 from the early 70s, at UNM, and had reason to regulate it. The "trick" is to emulate where the strings are. First, regulate damper lift from the pedal. Then measure in 2 - 3 places the distance from the wooden front of the hammer rest rail to the screw head on a damper head (I like to use a 6" rule, and insert it in the slot of the damper head screw.

    Then you remove the action to the bench, and recreate the string line by shimming the damper lift rod so you get the distances you measured. Now you can bend all those wires to be in line, and so that they are in front of the sostenuto lip at rest, on the other side when a note is played (meaning you emulate that by raising a wippen past let off, as a close approximation. Do a few samples, put it back and check your work, adjust as needed, then bend all in a straight line to a straightedge. 
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "Art is not a mirror held up to reality, but a hammer with which to shape it." Brecht






  • 20.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-11-2016 20:48
    James,
    Linseed oil will do the same, a lot less trouble. It dries gummy, so it inhibits vibrations like that. Good for hinges as well - best application spot is the joints in the hinges where the metal is pulled around the pin (so to speak), the gap where the "tab" meets the body of the hinge. Painting some there will get it so flow into the space between the pin and the hinge. I don't think there is a significant difference between "boiled" and raw linseed oil for this application. 

    Not any good for the Steinway upright sostenuto rod, though <G>. I don't know how that is put together, but if the metal could be removed, and replaced with a well stretched cord of the right diameter, that might be a solution.
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda






  • 21.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Member
    Posted 02-13-2016 08:21

    I saw a nylon type material which may be adaptable to covering metal. It is like a small hose that can be slit with a razor to slip it over a wire or a rod. I have seen short [pieces of the same stuff used to protect wires from touching.If anyone is interested I will find the link and post it.

    On the subject of Sostenutos Knabe came up. Another Baltimore piano maker Chas M Stieff had sostenutos in some models. This was engineered into the action not a retrofit. I would be interested in seeing more detailed pictures of the Steinway sostenuto in case I see one in the future.

    Locally I inspected a Chas M Stieff in which the middle pedal was not sostenuto but it engaged a muffler rail. A very clever wooden cam arrangement locked it in. Instead of having springs like modern muffler rails the connecting rod drops down and the rail lowers by gravity. The cam trips and locks the pedal . I forget exactly how it releases but I think you push the middle pedal down along with the left pedal.

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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357



  • 22.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Member
    Posted 02-13-2016 15:15

    Hi James -

    I'd be interested in the link to the nylon tubing material. That would probably be better than than thin diameter rubber tubing material that I used, but my hunch is that what I did will work just fine and it looks quite nice as well. The original nylon "tubing" was also black.

    Once I have the complete action assembled, I will post some photos of the sosenuto and how it engages the unusual damper wires on this 1893 Steinway upright.

    Thanks again.

    Dave

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    David Hankin
    Trinidad CA
    707-677-0633



  • 23.  RE: Sostento "rod" on 1893 Steinway upright

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-13-2016 21:03

    The old Steinway uprights were a"pet" project of Theodore. His brothers hated how expensive they were to make.

    Thanks to all for the helpful hints on the many types of upright sostenutos that are out there.

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    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431