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Bass string splice versus replace

  • 1.  Bass string splice versus replace

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-10-2017 11:01

    In a University setting, do you recommend splicing a bass string if possible, or would you always replace the string?

    I had String number 4 break on a Steinway be that is about a year and a half old.  It is in one of the piano professors offices.  I spliced it for now but was planning on ordering a replacement string from Mapes (who makes the strings for Steinway).  Good plan?

    Do you have different protocols for whether it is a concert instrument, piano faculty, other faculty, classroom, or practice room piano?

    Thanks!

    David Pritchard
    Liberty University

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    David Pritchard
    Lynchburg VA
    434-841-7735
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  • 2.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Posted 01-10-2017 12:13

    Depends on the splicing method and location of break. Photo will provide more targeted response. Different kind of knots make it debatable. 1 1/2 years it stablized a lot. New string will destablize it

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    Benjamin Sloane
    Cincinnati OH
    513-257-8480



  • 3.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-10-2017 12:24
    I guess I should have been more specific on the type of break.  I am talking about when the string breaks right at the tuning pin so that it can be spliced in the non-speaking length near the tuning pin.  A break at another termination point I would normally replace anyway, but in my years in the "field" I would regularly splice strings in the situation I described.  I am trying to find a consensus for in a CAUT situation as to whether you ever splice strings and leave them that way, or if it generally preferred to replace the string, either right away, or as soon as possible if needing to order the string.










  • 4.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-10-2017 12:44

    David, well it definitely depends on the situation as Benjamin has said. And for the record, not sure you will get a consensus from CAUTs--However, as a "rule" (as in NORMALLY in a University setting) I have had much greater success replacing strings. Follow-up will be a "snap" in your particular example, being only a single string and that bass strings seem to stabilize much faster than plain wire strings. 

    In our school of music (just over 100 pianos including about 15 Steinway grands) we still have about 2 to 3 spliced bass strings still in service--were there before I arrived. BUT not on any of our concert/performance pianos. 

    I have only spliced as a temporary fix and then followed up with new strings. 

    (My goal is to fix things right as soon as I can get there, and to make repairs as LONG TERM as possible. For me going back and tuning a spliced string until it's finally stabilized is a waste of time & resources--why not get it fixed ASAP and then spend time/energy on the replacement.) 

    I hope this helps---I will say that splicing is a FAR BETTER alternative to "universal bass strings!! Yuck! --changes the tinmbre/tone/overtones!! And I'm not against splicing. It can be a great option--in SOME CASES & situations  

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    [Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
    [Staff Techician]
    [Texas Tech Univ]
    [Lubbock] [TX]
    [8067783962]



  • 5.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-10-2017 12:49

    Hi David,

    I routinely splice strings that break at the tuning pin, both bass and treble strings. As Benjamin pointed out, the original string has stabilized considerably already and will probably be the best match tonally with it's neighboring strings. In my experience, spliced strings achieve tuning stability sooner than an entirely new string. YMMV.

    Alan

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    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483



  • 6.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-10-2017 14:52
    Like Alan, I splice and leave it spliced (don't bother to replace), and I agree this achieves stability faster. I have three splices on monochord strings of our concert grands (one on one of them, two on the other), and have never seen the need to bother replacing them (though I do have a spare set in case of need). 15 years and holding is good enough for me to call it permanent. If there was a situation where there were TV cameras swooping in, that would be different. 
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "When I smell a flower, I don't think about how it was cultivated. I like to listen to music the same way." Mompou






  • 7.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Posted 01-10-2017 18:24

    I think the only time time I ever spliced was in preparation for the  PTG  test in 1983!! Here at BU /Music I always have a full set  of bass strings for  Steinway model's   D and B,  O and M  and Baldwin  9' and Yamaha C6, Mason and Hamlin  BB and A.  When one needs replacing Mapes sends it  right back to keep the set complete. I also have some depleted sets  for the Baldwin smaller grands.

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    Martin Snow
    Boston MA
    617-543-1030



  • 8.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Posted 01-10-2017 19:02

    New strings can work. With dummy pins. Don't stress the block

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    Benjamin Sloane
    Cincinnati OH
    513-257-8480



  • 9.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-11-2017 06:34

    Martin -

    If you have an imaginative (and appropriately obsessive) approach to organizing and storing bass string sets, it would be interesting to see.  (Description and, if possible, photo).  Sorry I didn't think to take a picture of what I had made (or, to maintain appropriate modesty, 'had had  made) when at Manhattan School.  It wasn't perfect and didn't address humidity, beyond what the A/C controlled in the summer, but, given the space, limitations, seemed to work.  Michelle S... any improvements you would have (had) made?

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    David Skolnik
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565



  • 10.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Posted 01-14-2017 02:29
    I agree that splicing can be more effective. In either case, with bass strings, left of the bass break, I find a common engineering problem with most manufacturers; the duplex tuning pin side, i.e., fighting to retain pin stability with the torque created by the duplex on the pin side of the agraffe. Frequently, greater stability is achieved backing out the pin and leaving it higher than adjacent pins, deliberately, closer to level with the duplex rail, particularly in newer pianos. Downbearing to the coil is counterproductive, most of all when the plain wire part of the copper wound string is too thick to flex around the duplex bar. Or to fit in the tuning pin itself even. 

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    Benjamin Sloane
    Cincinnati OH
    513-257-8480
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  • 11.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Posted 01-11-2017 10:01
    Treble strings: Broken at the wrest pin. If the metals are shared I usually release some from the wrest pin of its pair, ease out the worst bends at the hitch and bridge pins, hold the string to the hitch pin with a small vise-clamp, and with a short, strong wood punch remove the old coil from the wrest pin before turning up that wrest pin about three whole turns. Then insert the string back in its wrest pin hole and pull up to pitch. If it's a Bosendorfer or Grotrian Steinweg the treble sections are individually strung and new strings are necessary.  
    Bass strings: I have had success splicing in the speaking length(!) but must first remove some of the copper covering. The knot makes up for the lost mass.
    I don't know about your thoughts but feel that knots in strings reflect on the tuner - which is why I usually replace the whole string at some later point. This, of course, depends on circumstances . . . .        Michael  UK





  • 12.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-11-2017 10:30

    For treble strings, if I decide to use some of the coil of the other tuning pin, I pull the coil and straighten part of it (a turn and a half), then replace it on its pin. I also turn out the pin where the string broke about 1 1/2 turns. I straighten the hitchpin bend, make a new hitchpin bend, and insert the free end of the wire into the becket of the free pin. I make a small (2 - 3 mm) bend on the end of the wire that is pulled through the becket to ensure it will be secure to the pin. I then turn that pin, making sure the coils are made tightly.

    The purpose of removing the coil and straightening some of its coils it is so that that pin will not end up higher than the others. Straightening the coil is done by holding the coil with round nosed pliers while pulling the end of the coil straight, shifting where you hold the coil as you work a few coils straight.

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    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda



  • 13.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Posted 01-12-2017 09:44
    Yes, Fred, you do exactly as I in this situation - except I don't straighten out the coil windings but leave that to nature, for having clamped the string at the hitch I then pull the string up as I undo the wrest pin. As for winding out 1 1/2 turns, you can always bonk it in to line up with the other pins but if you don't turn it out sufficiently you can't bonk it out!! Thanks for the 'becket' nomenclature - I simply couldn't remember what that hole was called! Moral: "Don't get old, you forget things" I'm 82 now.                         
    Michael    UK





  • 14.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-11-2017 00:54

    In that situation if you have a string replace it, if you don't and can splice it, splce it. If the splice isn't compromised for tone there's no reason to replace it. You'll still have to make a return to to retune.

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    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320



  • 15.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-11-2017 07:34

    Greetings,

     I routinely splice broken  wire.  I have numerous splices in my clientele that have been in place for years with no problem.  They stabilize faster and match the originals better than replacements.  

    regards, 

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    Ed Foote RPT



  • 16.  RE: Bass string splice versus replace

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-11-2017 10:00

    I generally tie them if possible for immediate results then wait to order replacements a few at a time, or till one breaks that can not be tied. 

    Best,

    Dennis Johnson

    St. Olaf College

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    Dennis Johnson, R.P.T.
    St. Olaf College
    Music Dept.
    Northfield, MN 55337
    sta2ned@stolaf.edu
    (507) 786-3587