Hello,

I am wondering what the correct repair process is for a well-done repair on stripped screw holes, such as for the action stack and in the hammer rail.  I have had luck before drilling out the hole, gluing in a dowel, drilling a pilot hole and re-inserting the screw.  However, the dowels I have here at the university seem to be a really soft wood and just strip out right away.

So -

What is the best process for this type of repair?

Do you use a hardwood dowel?

If so, what type of hardwood should be used?

Where have you purchased these dowels?

------------------------------
David Pritchard
Lynchburg VA
434-841-7735
------------------------------

Original Message------

Hello,

I am wondering what the correct repair process is for a well-done repair on stripped screw holes, such as for the action stack and in the hammer rail.  I have had luck before drilling out the hole, gluing in a dowel, drilling a pilot hole and re-inserting the screw.  However, the dowels I have here at the university seem to be a really soft wood and just strip out right away.

So -

What is the best process for this type of repair?

Do you use a hardwood dowel?

If so, what type of hardwood should be used?

Where have you purchased these dowels?

------------------------------
David Pritchard
Lynchburg VA
434-841-7735
------------------------------

Dowels, regardless of wood species, are not a good way to do this repair.  The grain orientation is the least able to support the screw threads.  I prefer hardwood plugs, cut from the same or similar wood species as the piece being repaired.  It requires investment in a plug cutter, and access to a drill press, but worth it, as you end up with the most durable repair possible.

------------------------------
Michael Spalding RPT
Fredonia WI
262-692-3943
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2017 17:12
From: James Frazee
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

I buy various types of hardwood dowels at Woodcrafter's, either in-store or on-line.

Best,

Jim

And if you want to plug and re-drill a stripped screw hole for a large screw in a heavy-duty application (such as fastening a pedal lyre to the underside of a keyed, or the like), you can use your plug cutters to make plugs out of pin block stock. At one time, there were ready-made Falconwood (multi-multi-laminate) plugs available. Not sure itv those are still for sale, but they are VERY heavy-duty.

For lighter-duty applications such as flange screw holes, one common repair is to glue in a spilt shoe peg (which is maple, available from some piano supply houses). Another involves inserting paper towel, applying thin CA glue, and threading in the screw (coated with McLube) to cut the threads in the newly added wood-product.

Alan

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2017 17:39
From: Michael Spalding
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

Dowels, regardless of wood species, are not a good way to do this repair.  The grain orientation is the least able to support the screw threads.  I prefer hardwood plugs, cut from the same or similar wood species as the piece being repaired.  It requires investment in a plug cutter, and access to a drill press, but worth it, as you end up with the most durable repair possible.

------------------------------
Michael Spalding RPT
Fredonia WI
262-692-3943
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2017 17:12
From: James Frazee
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

I buy various types of hardwood dowels at Woodcrafter's, either in-store or on-line.

Best,

Jim

Original Message------

I buy various types of hardwood dowels at Woodcrafter's, either in-store or on-line.

Best,

Jim

Original Message------

It sounds like you are working on a non-Steinway piano, correct?  In any case, the best plugs I have found come from the Steinway parts list.  I don't remember the number but they are called 5/16" wrestplank plugs, and are awesome.  They aren't actually 5/16" but are made from pinblock material.  I routinely use them for stripped out action bracket screws, etc...   Otherwise, you can get basic hardwood oak dowels from Home Depot.  

best,

Dennis Johnson

You should get an assortment of good plug cutters.  Look up dowel and tenon cutters as well.  Substantial tool, should last.

------------------------------
David Skolnik
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2017 15:57
From: David Pritchard
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

Hello,

I am wondering what the correct repair process is for a well-done repair on stripped screw holes, such as for the action stack and in the hammer rail.  I have had luck before drilling out the hole, gluing in a dowel, drilling a pilot hole and re-inserting the screw.  However, the dowels I have here at the university seem to be a really soft wood and just strip out right away.

So -

What is the best process for this type of repair?

Do you use a hardwood dowel?

If so, what type of hardwood should be used?

Where have you purchased these dowels?

------------------------------
David Pritchard
Lynchburg VA
434-841-7735
------------------------------

Susan's leather repair is a fine field repair technique.
The nice thing about plug cutters is that you can cut plugs from wood that matches the workpiece.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2017 17:50
From: David Skolnik
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

You should get an assortment of good plug cutters.  Look up dowel and tenon cutters as well.  Substantial tool, should last.

------------------------------
David Skolnik
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2017 15:57
From: David Pritchard
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

Hello,

I am wondering what the correct repair process is for a well-done repair on stripped screw holes, such as for the action stack and in the hammer rail.  I have had luck before drilling out the hole, gluing in a dowel, drilling a pilot hole and re-inserting the screw.  However, the dowels I have here at the university seem to be a really soft wood and just strip out right away.

So -

What is the best process for this type of repair?

Do you use a hardwood dowel?

If so, what type of hardwood should be used?

Where have you purchased these dowels?

------------------------------
David Pritchard
Lynchburg VA
434-841-7735
------------------------------

When you glue in dowels, hardwood or not, the grain goes the wrong direction. You can't depend on end grain to hold a screw.

If you are making hardwood inserts, you need to use a plug cutter to get the grain going the right direction.

However, I find that I get much better results without delay by using a pointed strip of firm buckskin, wet with white glue. You can vary the width of the strip depending on how loose the screw is. The procedure is quite simple: cut the pointed strip, try it in the hole, and see how much is hanging out. Clip this off. Wet the strip well with white glue, insert it, and turn in the screw. If the screw is fairly firm but still overturns a little bit, it probably will be firm enough once the glue sets up. If it isn't, you can add another small strip on the opposite side of the hole.

This hint, with minor variations, came first from Jeff Hickey, to use for Steinway hammer flanges in the metal-clad rails. I turned it into a general principle, and used it for many different loose action and case screws. It scales up and down very easily. I now use a tiny little strip of buckskin for the loose small screws of a long grand hinge, by inserting the strip, putting the white glue bottle against the hole, and giving a small squeeze to flood it. Then I turn the screw back in, and wipe off the extra white glue which comes out. In an emergency, I've even used a big piece of shoe leather with white glue to hold on a grand lyre when a screw was stripped. I do think that for a lyre repair, drilling the right sized hole and using plugs and then drilling a pilot hole is a better repair.

I find the reasoning behind this leather and white glue repair to be very pleasing. When it is wet, leather gets very soft and stretchy. In the Middle Ages, shields were made by stretching wet leather over a wood frame. Then when the leather dried it got very hard. So, in a situation where a screw has gotten loose, the hole has gotten splintery as well as enlarged. The white glue sticks all the little bits back together. Since the leather takes up room in the hole, when you turn the screw back in, the wet leather is squeezed into the screw threads. Unlike wood inserts like toothpicks, etc., the leather does not have grain going the wrong direction (where the screw threads can chew the wood into fragments.)  After the glue has set up, the leather and glue are extremely hard, and they will exactly match the screw threads. White glue, unlike CA, stays flexible even after it has set up. You can tell this by squeezing some into a jar lid, and then pulling it up after it is dry. You can bend it. White glue will never seize metal, as CA often will. So, after mending a screw hole with leather and white glue, the screw can always be taken out again, and when you put it back in, the hole will have the right threading. The screws will go in and out multiple times, because the matching thread has been rebuilt in a durable way.

This technique has worked for me for many years. I just keep firm buckskin and white glue in the kit, and trim the strips with the scissors on a Swiss army knife.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2017 15:57
From: David Pritchard
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

Hello,

I am wondering what the correct repair process is for a well-done repair on stripped screw holes, such as for the action stack and in the hammer rail.  I have had luck before drilling out the hole, gluing in a dowel, drilling a pilot hole and re-inserting the screw.  However, the dowels I have here at the university seem to be a really soft wood and just strip out right away.

So -

What is the best process for this type of repair?

Do you use a hardwood dowel?

If so, what type of hardwood should be used?

Where have you purchased these dowels?

------------------------------
David Pritchard
Lynchburg VA
434-841-7735
------------------------------

Original Message------

When you glue in dowels, hardwood or not, the grain goes the wrong direction. You can't depend on end grain to hold a screw.

If you are making hardwood inserts, you need to use a plug cutter to get the grain going the right direction.

However, I find that I get much better results without delay by using a pointed strip of firm buckskin, wet with white glue. You can vary the width of the strip depending on how loose the screw is. The procedure is quite simple: cut the pointed strip, try it in the hole, and see how much is hanging out. Clip this off. Wet the strip well with white glue, insert it, and turn in the screw. If the screw is fairly firm but still overturns a little bit, it probably will be firm enough once the glue sets up. If it isn't, you can add another small strip on the opposite side of the hole.

This hint, with minor variations, came first from Jeff Hickey, to use for Steinway hammer flanges in the metal-clad rails. I turned it into a general principle, and used it for many different loose action and case screws. It scales up and down very easily. I now use a tiny little strip of buckskin for the loose small screws of a long grand hinge, by inserting the strip, putting the white glue bottle against the hole, and giving a small squeeze to flood it. Then I turn the screw back in, and wipe off the extra white glue which comes out. In an emergency, I've even used a big piece of shoe leather with white glue to hold on a grand lyre when a screw was stripped. I do think that for a lyre repair, drilling the right sized hole and using plugs and then drilling a pilot hole is a better repair.

I find the reasoning behind this leather and white glue repair to be very pleasing. When it is wet, leather gets very soft and stretchy. In the Middle Ages, shields were made by stretching wet leather over a wood frame. Then when the leather dried it got very hard. So, in a situation where a screw has gotten loose, the hole has gotten splintery as well as enlarged. The white glue sticks all the little bits back together. Since the leather takes up room in the hole, when you turn the screw back in, the wet leather is squeezed into the screw threads. Unlike wood inserts like toothpicks, etc., the leather does not have grain going the wrong direction (where the screw threads can chew the wood into fragments.)  After the glue has set up, the leather and glue are extremely hard, and they will exactly match the screw threads. White glue, unlike CA, stays flexible even after it has set up. You can tell this by squeezing some into a jar lid, and then pulling it up after it is dry. You can bend it. White glue will never seize metal, as CA often will. So, after mending a screw hole with leather and white glue, the screw can always be taken out again, and when you put it back in, the hole will have the right threading. The screws will go in and out multiple times, because the matching thread has been rebuilt in a durable way.

This technique has worked for me for many years. I just keep firm buckskin and white glue in the kit, and trim the strips with the scissors on a Swiss army knife.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

My go-to repair for stripped flange screw holes is a leather strip and glue. However, I make certain that the strip is positioned to the side of the screw so the added pressure does not press open any crack in the wood that may exist.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2017 19:17
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

When you glue in dowels, hardwood or not, the grain goes the wrong direction. You can't depend on end grain to hold a screw.

If you are making hardwood inserts, you need to use a plug cutter to get the grain going the right direction.

However, I find that I get much better results without delay by using a pointed strip of firm buckskin, wet with white glue. You can vary the width of the strip depending on how loose the screw is. The procedure is quite simple: cut the pointed strip, try it in the hole, and see how much is hanging out. Clip this off. Wet the strip well with white glue, insert it, and turn in the screw. If the screw is fairly firm but still overturns a little bit, it probably will be firm enough once the glue sets up. If it isn't, you can add another small strip on the opposite side of the hole.

This hint, with minor variations, came first from Jeff Hickey, to use for Steinway hammer flanges in the metal-clad rails. I turned it into a general principle, and used it for many different loose action and case screws. It scales up and down very easily. I now use a tiny little strip of buckskin for the loose small screws of a long grand hinge, by inserting the strip, putting the white glue bottle against the hole, and giving a small squeeze to flood it. Then I turn the screw back in, and wipe off the extra white glue which comes out. In an emergency, I've even used a big piece of shoe leather with white glue to hold on a grand lyre when a screw was stripped. I do think that for a lyre repair, drilling the right sized hole and using plugs and then drilling a pilot hole is a better repair.

I find the reasoning behind this leather and white glue repair to be very pleasing. When it is wet, leather gets very soft and stretchy. In the Middle Ages, shields were made by stretching wet leather over a wood frame. Then when the leather dried it got very hard. So, in a situation where a screw has gotten loose, the hole has gotten splintery as well as enlarged. The white glue sticks all the little bits back together. Since the leather takes up room in the hole, when you turn the screw back in, the wet leather is squeezed into the screw threads. Unlike wood inserts like toothpicks, etc., the leather does not have grain going the wrong direction (where the screw threads can chew the wood into fragments.)  After the glue has set up, the leather and glue are extremely hard, and they will exactly match the screw threads. White glue, unlike CA, stays flexible even after it has set up. You can tell this by squeezing some into a jar lid, and then pulling it up after it is dry. You can bend it. White glue will never seize metal, as CA often will. So, after mending a screw hole with leather and white glue, the screw can always be taken out again, and when you put it back in, the hole will have the right threading. The screws will go in and out multiple times, because the matching thread has been rebuilt in a durable way.

This technique has worked for me for many years. I just keep firm buckskin and white glue in the kit, and trim the strips with the scissors on a Swiss army knife.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2017 15:57
From: David Pritchard
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

Hello,

I am wondering what the correct repair process is for a well-done repair on stripped screw holes, such as for the action stack and in the hammer rail.  I have had luck before drilling out the hole, gluing in a dowel, drilling a pilot hole and re-inserting the screw.  However, the dowels I have here at the university seem to be a really soft wood and just strip out right away.

So -

What is the best process for this type of repair?

Do you use a hardwood dowel?

If so, what type of hardwood should be used?

Where have you purchased these dowels?

------------------------------
David Pritchard
Lynchburg VA
434-841-7735
------------------------------

Original Message------

When you glue in dowels, hardwood or not, the grain goes the wrong direction. You can't depend on end grain to hold a screw.

If you are making hardwood inserts, you need to use a plug cutter to get the grain going the right direction.

However, I find that I get much better results without delay by using a pointed strip of firm buckskin, wet with white glue. You can vary the width of the strip depending on how loose the screw is. The procedure is quite simple: cut the pointed strip, try it in the hole, and see how much is hanging out. Clip this off. Wet the strip well with white glue, insert it, and turn in the screw. If the screw is fairly firm but still overturns a little bit, it probably will be firm enough once the glue sets up. If it isn't, you can add another small strip on the opposite side of the hole.

This hint, with minor variations, came first from Jeff Hickey, to use for Steinway hammer flanges in the metal-clad rails. I turned it into a general principle, and used it for many different loose action and case screws. It scales up and down very easily. I now use a tiny little strip of buckskin for the loose small screws of a long grand hinge, by inserting the strip, putting the white glue bottle against the hole, and giving a small squeeze to flood it. Then I turn the screw back in, and wipe off the extra white glue which comes out. In an emergency, I've even used a big piece of shoe leather with white glue to hold on a grand lyre when a screw was stripped. I do think that for a lyre repair, drilling the right sized hole and using plugs and then drilling a pilot hole is a better repair.

I find the reasoning behind this leather and white glue repair to be very pleasing. When it is wet, leather gets very soft and stretchy. In the Middle Ages, shields were made by stretching wet leather over a wood frame. Then when the leather dried it got very hard. So, in a situation where a screw has gotten loose, the hole has gotten splintery as well as enlarged. The white glue sticks all the little bits back together. Since the leather takes up room in the hole, when you turn the screw back in, the wet leather is squeezed into the screw threads. Unlike wood inserts like toothpicks, etc., the leather does not have grain going the wrong direction (where the screw threads can chew the wood into fragments.)  After the glue has set up, the leather and glue are extremely hard, and they will exactly match the screw threads. White glue, unlike CA, stays flexible even after it has set up. You can tell this by squeezing some into a jar lid, and then pulling it up after it is dry. You can bend it. White glue will never seize metal, as CA often will. So, after mending a screw hole with leather and white glue, the screw can always be taken out again, and when you put it back in, the hole will have the right threading. The screws will go in and out multiple times, because the matching thread has been rebuilt in a durable way.

This technique has worked for me for many years. I just keep firm buckskin and white glue in the kit, and trim the strips with the scissors on a Swiss army knife.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message------

When you glue in dowels, hardwood or not, the grain goes the wrong direction. You can't depend on end grain to hold a screw.

If you are making hardwood inserts, you need to use a plug cutter to get the grain going the right direction.

However, I find that I get much better results without delay by using a pointed strip of firm buckskin, wet with white glue. You can vary the width of the strip depending on how loose the screw is. The procedure is quite simple: cut the pointed strip, try it in the hole, and see how much is hanging out. Clip this off. Wet the strip well with white glue, insert it, and turn in the screw. If the screw is fairly firm but still overturns a little bit, it probably will be firm enough once the glue sets up. If it isn't, you can add another small strip on the opposite side of the hole.

This hint, with minor variations, came first from Jeff Hickey, to use for Steinway hammer flanges in the metal-clad rails. I turned it into a general principle, and used it for many different loose action and case screws. It scales up and down very easily. I now use a tiny little strip of buckskin for the loose small screws of a long grand hinge, by inserting the strip, putting the white glue bottle against the hole, and giving a small squeeze to flood it. Then I turn the screw back in, and wipe off the extra white glue which comes out. In an emergency, I've even used a big piece of shoe leather with white glue to hold on a grand lyre when a screw was stripped. I do think that for a lyre repair, drilling the right sized hole and using plugs and then drilling a pilot hole is a better repair.

I find the reasoning behind this leather and white glue repair to be very pleasing. When it is wet, leather gets very soft and stretchy. In the Middle Ages, shields were made by stretching wet leather over a wood frame. Then when the leather dried it got very hard. So, in a situation where a screw has gotten loose, the hole has gotten splintery as well as enlarged. The white glue sticks all the little bits back together. Since the leather takes up room in the hole, when you turn the screw back in, the wet leather is squeezed into the screw threads. Unlike wood inserts like toothpicks, etc., the leather does not have grain going the wrong direction (where the screw threads can chew the wood into fragments.)  After the glue has set up, the leather and glue are extremely hard, and they will exactly match the screw threads. White glue, unlike CA, stays flexible even after it has set up. You can tell this by squeezing some into a jar lid, and then pulling it up after it is dry. You can bend it. White glue will never seize metal, as CA often will. So, after mending a screw hole with leather and white glue, the screw can always be taken out again, and when you put it back in, the hole will have the right threading. The screws will go in and out multiple times, because the matching thread has been rebuilt in a durable way.

This technique has worked for me for many years. I just keep firm buckskin and white glue in the kit, and trim the strips with the scissors on a Swiss army knife.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Hi, David

The strip goes on one side of the hole, and the point is at the bottom, so it can go a little further into the hole. You can vary the width of the strip depending on how loose the screw is. If the screw doesn't seem centered, consider which side to put the strip on, or if the screw is very loose you could put in two thin strips, one on either side.

Try it, you'll like it. And it's easy to carry a little bit of firm buckskin and a small bottle of white glue in your kit. Every time you see a loose screw, you just spend a few minutes fixing the hole.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-07-2017 00:49
From: David Pritchard
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

Hi Susan,

I like your leather and white glue idea.  You say pointed buckskin - I am trying to picture what you mean.  Is the point down in the bottom of the hole and the buckskin just touching one side of the hole?  Or are you trying to create a tube of leather so that all sides of the hole have buckskin touching and the entire screw is encased.

David Pritchard

"I am wondering what the correct repair process is for a well-done repair on stripped screw holes, such as for the action stack and in the hammer rail."

Don't over do it.

Shop Red Oak Veneer at Lowes.com

Lowes		remove preview
Shop Red Oak Veneer at Lowes.com Shop red oak veneer in the wood veneer section of Lowes.com. View this on Lowes >

Don't even need glue. Just a heat gun, or glue if you want. Replacing the whole frame and top action?

Create jigs to hold screws, with 88 notches for shank flanges, and however many for action brackets. This ensures you are less likely to encounter this problem in the first place. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2017 15:57
From: David Pritchard
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

Hello,

I am wondering what the correct repair process is for a well-done repair on stripped screw holes, such as for the action stack and in the hammer rail.  I have had luck before drilling out the hole, gluing in a dowel, drilling a pilot hole and re-inserting the screw.  However, the dowels I have here at the university seem to be a really soft wood and just strip out right away.

So -

What is the best process for this type of repair?

Do you use a hardwood dowel?

If so, what type of hardwood should be used?

Where have you purchased these dowels?

------------------------------
David Pritchard
Lynchburg VA
434-841-7735
------------------------------

I have had excellent results using West 105 epoxy to fill the screw hole and rebuild the thread. One must be sure the hole has no wax, so in the case of some Steinways that have paraffin on the flange screws, I drill the hole out to the full size of the hole in the metal. The screws must be waxed before you set them in place or you won't get them out!!!.

What you do is fill the hole with epoxy and place the screw even and straight with the neighbors and a little deeper than when it will be tight against the flange. It does take 24 hours to cure but the feel is excellent. One can apply full torque to achieve proper tightness just like a new one would have. Screw can be put in and out many times with no change in feel.

------------------------------
Edward McMorrow
Edmonds WA
425-299-3431
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2017 20:13
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

"I am wondering what the correct repair process is for a well-done repair on stripped screw holes, such as for the action stack and in the hammer rail."

Don't over do it.

Shop Red Oak Veneer at Lowes.com

Lowes		remove preview
Shop Red Oak Veneer at Lowes.com Shop red oak veneer in the wood veneer section of Lowes.com. View this on Lowes >

Don't even need glue. Just a heat gun, or glue if you want. Replacing the whole frame and top action?

Create jigs to hold screws, with 88 notches for shank flanges, and however many for action brackets. This ensures you are less likely to encounter this problem in the first place. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-29-2017 15:57
From: David Pritchard
Subject: Hardwood Dowels

Hello,

I am wondering what the correct repair process is for a well-done repair on stripped screw holes, such as for the action stack and in the hammer rail.  I have had luck before drilling out the hole, gluing in a dowel, drilling a pilot hole and re-inserting the screw.  However, the dowels I have here at the university seem to be a really soft wood and just strip out right away.

So -

What is the best process for this type of repair?

Do you use a hardwood dowel?

If so, what type of hardwood should be used?

Where have you purchased these dowels?

------------------------------
David Pritchard
Lynchburg VA
434-841-7735
------------------------------