CAUT

Anyone out there have any experience with benches made (and distributed) by Benchworld? Their product is being considered by a music school that has asked me to advise them. Our last several bench purchases have been from Hidrau Model (Spain).

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

I had looked at Benchworld, found their prices high, haven't purchased anything from them. Looking at their current web page, they seem to be carrying Hidrau benches at an exorbitant mark up. Their own bench, specifically the "Allegro PE," has the following "warrantee" language, which certainly raises my eyebrows:

"If the bench is abused by the user then the warranty will be void. We do sell parts for this bench however. You can purchase the entire mechanism all put together in the future. To extend the life of the mechanism you must avoid lowering the bench too quickly. You can avoid this by turning the knob slowly while seated or simply standing up and pushing the bench down by using your knee. This piano bench is designed to handle maximum weight of 200 lb while being lowered. Once it is adjusted to the right height, then it can handle up to 350 lb. So if you are a heavy person you must stand up and lower the bench using your hand or your knee. Or simple lowering the bench very slowly to avoid hitting the bottom rubbers that are inside the mechanism. By lowering the bench too quickly you can cause damage to the rubbers inside the mechanism and the bench will be a bit wobbly afterwards. This is not covered under warranty. If the gas mechanism stops working within a year then you must return the bench to an authorized benchworld repair dealer and we will send them parts. Parts and labour is fully covered but shipping cost and return fee are not covered."

Yeah, right, you are going to be able to control whether the users lower it too fast. Maybe in some worlds. The fact that it is built so flimsy as to need that warning is a big red flag. (I wonder who is an authorized bench world repair person). The legs look much like some Chinese make I once bought two of - a big mistake. Judging from the not too revealing photos, I'd guess it is more or less the same: the pneumatic cylinders are contained within the legs, which are probably cheap wood with a bunch of thick polyester polished finish on top. 

Our Hidrau of the same ilk (looks like a Jansen) has been absolutely trouble free and extremely popular in the year we have had it. Solidly built, flawless operation with extraordinary control. The sleeker, more modern look Hidrau benches are extremely price competitive for institutions. BTW, Patrycja Piechota, the Hidrau rep, assures me that now orders with payment by credit card work flawlessly. I wouldn't risk money on Benchworld, myself. However, if you learn something from someone who has tried them, I'd be happy to know.

------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-08-2017 21:00
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Benchworld Pneumatic benches

Anyone out there have any experience with benches made (and distributed) by Benchworld? Their product is being considered by a music school that has asked me to advise them. Our last several bench purchases have been from Hidrau Model (Spain).

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Fred wrote:
"BTW, Patrycja Piechota, the Hidrau rep, assures me that now orders with payment by credit card work flawlessly."

Yes, at first they didn't believe that there were problems with their credit card processing system. After all, they reasoned: Others had made credit card purchases before. But that turned out to be limited to the particular combination of a certain credit card and a certain bank.

A mere 68 emails later, they seem to have it fully functional at last.

You're welcome!

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-08-2017 22:32
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: Benchworld Pneumatic benches

I had looked at Benchworld, found their prices high, haven't purchased anything from them. Looking at their current web page, they seem to be carrying Hidrau benches at an exorbitant mark up. Their own bench, specifically the "Allegro PE," has the following "warrantee" language, which certainly raises my eyebrows:

"If the bench is abused by the user then the warranty will be void. We do sell parts for this bench however. You can purchase the entire mechanism all put together in the future. To extend the life of the mechanism you must avoid lowering the bench too quickly. You can avoid this by turning the knob slowly while seated or simply standing up and pushing the bench down by using your knee. This piano bench is designed to handle maximum weight of 200 lb while being lowered. Once it is adjusted to the right height, then it can handle up to 350 lb. So if you are a heavy person you must stand up and lower the bench using your hand or your knee. Or simple lowering the bench very slowly to avoid hitting the bottom rubbers that are inside the mechanism. By lowering the bench too quickly you can cause damage to the rubbers inside the mechanism and the bench will be a bit wobbly afterwards. This is not covered under warranty. If the gas mechanism stops working within a year then you must return the bench to an authorized benchworld repair dealer and we will send them parts. Parts and labour is fully covered but shipping cost and return fee are not covered."

Yeah, right, you are going to be able to control whether the users lower it too fast. Maybe in some worlds. The fact that it is built so flimsy as to need that warning is a big red flag. (I wonder who is an authorized bench world repair person). The legs look much like some Chinese make I once bought two of - a big mistake. Judging from the not too revealing photos, I'd guess it is more or less the same: the pneumatic cylinders are contained within the legs, which are probably cheap wood with a bunch of thick polyester polished finish on top. 

Our Hidrau of the same ilk (looks like a Jansen) has been absolutely trouble free and extremely popular in the year we have had it. Solidly built, flawless operation with extraordinary control. The sleeker, more modern look Hidrau benches are extremely price competitive for institutions. BTW, Patrycja Piechota, the Hidrau rep, assures me that now orders with payment by credit card work flawlessly. I wouldn't risk money on Benchworld, myself. However, if you learn something from someone who has tried them, I'd be happy to know.

------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-08-2017 21:00
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Benchworld Pneumatic benches

Anyone out there have any experience with benches made (and distributed) by Benchworld? Their product is being considered by a music school that has asked me to advise them. Our last several bench purchases have been from Hidrau Model (Spain).

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Fred and all,

The prices on the Benchworld website are full retail. That way you can let a client look at the selection and choose a bench to order through you. You can set up an account easily to get the wholesale prices, and I find their shipping reasonable. 

I have no doubt they are pulling "standard" pneumatics off the shelf. I recently researched and purchased an office chair. The normal chairs are rated for weight far below the heavy duty chairs and are priced differently. I expect the heavy duty versions to last longer for everyone.  

Kudos to Hidrau for taking the high road.

------------------------------
David Stocker
Olympia WA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-08-2017 22:32
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: Benchworld Pneumatic benches

I had looked at Benchworld, found their prices high, haven't purchased anything from them. Looking at their current web page, they seem to be carrying Hidrau benches at an exorbitant mark up. Their own bench, specifically the "Allegro PE," has the following "warrantee" language, which certainly raises my eyebrows:

"If the bench is abused by the user then the warranty will be void. We do sell parts for this bench however. You can purchase the entire mechanism all put together in the future. To extend the life of the mechanism you must avoid lowering the bench too quickly. You can avoid this by turning the knob slowly while seated or simply standing up and pushing the bench down by using your knee. This piano bench is designed to handle maximum weight of 200 lb while being lowered. Once it is adjusted to the right height, then it can handle up to 350 lb. So if you are a heavy person you must stand up and lower the bench using your hand or your knee. Or simple lowering the bench very slowly to avoid hitting the bottom rubbers that are inside the mechanism. By lowering the bench too quickly you can cause damage to the rubbers inside the mechanism and the bench will be a bit wobbly afterwards. This is not covered under warranty. If the gas mechanism stops working within a year then you must return the bench to an authorized benchworld repair dealer and we will send them parts. Parts and labour is fully covered but shipping cost and return fee are not covered."

Yeah, right, you are going to be able to control whether the users lower it too fast. Maybe in some worlds. The fact that it is built so flimsy as to need that warning is a big red flag. (I wonder who is an authorized bench world repair person). The legs look much like some Chinese make I once bought two of - a big mistake. Judging from the not too revealing photos, I'd guess it is more or less the same: the pneumatic cylinders are contained within the legs, which are probably cheap wood with a bunch of thick polyester polished finish on top. 

Our Hidrau of the same ilk (looks like a Jansen) has been absolutely trouble free and extremely popular in the year we have had it. Solidly built, flawless operation with extraordinary control. The sleeker, more modern look Hidrau benches are extremely price competitive for institutions. BTW, Patrycja Piechota, the Hidrau rep, assures me that now orders with payment by credit card work flawlessly. I wouldn't risk money on Benchworld, myself. However, if you learn something from someone who has tried them, I'd be happy to know.

------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-08-2017 21:00
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Benchworld Pneumatic benches

Anyone out there have any experience with benches made (and distributed) by Benchworld? Their product is being considered by a music school that has asked me to advise them. Our last several bench purchases have been from Hidrau Model (Spain).

Thanks,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message------

Fred and all,

The prices on the Benchworld website are full retail. That way you can let a client look at the selection and choose a bench to order through you. You can set up an account easily to get the wholesale prices, and I find their shipping reasonable. 

I have no doubt they are pulling "standard" pneumatics off the shelf. I recently researched and purchased an office chair. The normal chairs are rated for weight far below the heavy duty chairs and are priced differently. I expect the heavy duty versions to last longer for everyone.  

Kudos to Hidrau for taking the high road.

------------------------------
David Stocker
Olympia WA
------------------------------

Hi, all,

Just this week, I bought and delivered a Jansen pneumatic bench to a concert hall. Price was $825 for bench, vinyl top, high-polish ebony, standard length J3 spade legs.

Shipping was probably around $60 for the bench alone, but I also ordered two extra sets of legs for them, 12” and 16”. If you order only the bench, Jansen can give you the shipping cost over the phone when you order, since they already know it. This hall now has 5 Jansen benches, and can accommodate an artist who asks for a bench to go lower or higher, which happens occasionally. It takes very little time to swap out a set of legs. The hall became interested in the bench when they saw one purchased by my David (Vanderlip) for Pomona College, and they also had an artist request a pneumatic “if available”. I have had several artists lately requesting pneumatic benches, so apparently they are common enough these days.

The Jansen bench will drop with a bit of a bump if you are sitting with your full weight on it and release the handle, but you only do it once and no harm done! It’s easy enough to lean forward a little and relieve some of the weight while going down. You have to do the same thing when going up, since it can’t lift your full weight. David also learned that it helped to put a mark (a gold dot, I think he used) on the handle that activates the release, although using both at once would have the same effect.

Good results so far, with the ones I have in use.

Kathy


Original Message------

I figured the Benchworld web prices were retail, but $2300 for a bench I pay less than $800? Even if they offer wholesale at 50% off, they make out like bandits if they ever sell one. 

The Jansen pneumatic is, I'm quite sure, far better than the Benchworld (I've got one). Don't know the price, as mine came with a Shigeru Kawai.

Regards,

Fred Sturm

fssturm@comcast.net

http://fredsturm.net

www.artoftuning.com

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein

Original Message------

Hi, all,

Just this week, I bought and delivered a Jansen pneumatic bench to a concert hall. Price was $825 for bench, vinyl top, high-polish ebony, standard length J3 spade legs.

Shipping was probably around $60 for the bench alone, but I also ordered two extra sets of legs for them, 12” and 16”. If you order only the bench, Jansen can give you the shipping cost over the phone when you order, since they already know it. This hall now has 5 Jansen benches, and can accommodate an artist who asks for a bench to go lower or higher, which happens occasionally. It takes very little time to swap out a set of legs. The hall became interested in the bench when they saw one purchased by my David (Vanderlip) for Pomona College, and they also had an artist request a pneumatic “if available”. I have had several artists lately requesting pneumatic benches, so apparently they are common enough these days.

The Jansen bench will drop with a bit of a bump if you are sitting with your full weight on it and release the handle, but you only do it once and no harm done! It’s easy enough to lean forward a little and relieve some of the weight while going down. You have to do the same thing when going up, since it can’t lift your full weight. David also learned that it helped to put a mark (a gold dot, I think he used) on the handle that activates the release, although using both at once would have the same effect.

Good results so far, with the ones I have in use.

Kathy

I would agree with Dennis that the more modern design is just fine, and the "concert style" Hidrau is pricey. However, I do have people who don't like the less expensive, "standard" Hidrau benches. One reason is the type of upholstery: a flat surface, meaning the material is stretched over what is undoubtedly a foam pad. This means that when you lean, the foam kind of leans with you, making for a less secure feel. The concert style bench has the standard type of "tufted" upholstery, for a more solid feel. The bench is also heftier - some are disconcerted by the light look of the modern design. But the mechanism is also better, much more controllable (not that the others are at all bad). It is simply an elegant bench, very well designed and executed. Virtually everybody chooses it.

My cost a year ago was €736, which comes to $824 at today's exchange rate. That included delivery.

I was interested to see that when Steinway hosted the Olga Kern Competition here last fall, the benches for the actual competition were the modern pneumatic design (I didn't have the opportunity to see the maker's name). They seem to be omnipresent in Europe, and rapidly making headway in the US. I can't imagine buying something else, at this point. Turning those handles is so last decade :-) (and wastes a lot of time and effort, especially for a studio recital). Also, the steel legs (on the modern design) are far less likely ever to break than wooden ones.

------------------------------
Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 06-09-2017 21:19
From: Dennis Johnson
Subject: Benchworld Pneumatic benches

I second the recommendation for Hidrau benches and Patrycja is great to work with. We've made a few orders and and process is easy with delivery as fast as anywhere in this country. I am a bit concerned that our factory direct relationship could change if American reps gain control so take advantage of this bargain if you can.  The benches are great. We checked and I got information that the Jansen pneumatic bench was made in China.  Maybe we are talking about a different model, but the Hidrau concert bench is also quite expensive, and perhaps over rated, IMO. We are using the standard "scholar" Hidrau bench in our recital hall and it works just fine.  Everyone loves it.  I just got 3 more delivered yesterday and were ordered the week before. 

best

Dennis Johnson

St. Olaf College

Original Message------

Hi, all,

Just this week, I bought and delivered a Jansen pneumatic bench to a concert hall. Price was $825 for bench, vinyl top, high-polish ebony, standard length J3 spade legs.

Shipping was probably around $60 for the bench alone, but I also ordered two extra sets of legs for them, 12” and 16”. If you order only the bench, Jansen can give you the shipping cost over the phone when you order, since they already know it. This hall now has 5 Jansen benches, and can accommodate an artist who asks for a bench to go lower or higher, which happens occasionally. It takes very little time to swap out a set of legs. The hall became interested in the bench when they saw one purchased by my David (Vanderlip) for Pomona College, and they also had an artist request a pneumatic “if available”. I have had several artists lately requesting pneumatic benches, so apparently they are common enough these days.

The Jansen bench will drop with a bit of a bump if you are sitting with your full weight on it and release the handle, but you only do it once and no harm done! It’s easy enough to lean forward a little and relieve some of the weight while going down. You have to do the same thing when going up, since it can’t lift your full weight. David also learned that it helped to put a mark (a gold dot, I think he used) on the handle that activates the release, although using both at once would have the same effect.

Good results so far, with the ones I have in use.

Kathy