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Upright stage dolly question

  • 1.  Upright stage dolly question

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-10-2017 23:04
    New customer. Church. Their U1 is installed on this stage dolly. (See pic) Rocks back and forth and squeaks loudly with every movement. Pianist doesn't seem to mind but it made tuning extremely difficult. My first thought is that the piano has been installed on the dolly incorrectly leaving no support for the front. My second thought is that if the piano is installed correctly then there must be something missing that would help lock the front of this piano solidly in place. 

    Your thoughts/suggestions?




    niTeMAizQmy5RiaWLCXq_0309171811_HDR.jpg

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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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  • 2.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-11-2017 01:15
    I have installed many of these dollies. Most of the time, I drill through the dolly into the toe and fasten it with a lag screw. No more wobbling. 

    Does it deface a potentially visible surface? Yes. But after 20-30 years of heavy use and abuse at a church or school, it will likely not be the worst damage. 

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    David Stocker
    Olympia WA
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  • 3.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-11-2017 02:14
    Goeff

    Those dollies have to be screwed down in two places.  On the back with four lag bolts in each dolly, and then on the bottom with 4 screws on each dolly. To do those, the piano has to be on it's back, or tilted on one end.  

    Too many techs just screw them down with only 2 screws on each dolly. 

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 4.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Posted 03-11-2017 06:15
    I usually place two screws on the back because some lower bracing doesn't extend high enough for the top two screw holes, two screws on the bottom. These four screws have been sufficient.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
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  • 5.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-11-2017 08:42
    One more version; we all have our methods. I use lag screws into the lower back beam and bolts
    through the bottom board. Check for location of trap work inside and locate dollies so the bolts
    will have clearance. Very secure with the bolts through the bottom, with lock washers and tightened down tight.
    If you don’t have a one-man tilter to put the piano on its back, that is a very useful piece of equipment, and I
    recommend that you acquire one.
    Best regards,
    Claude H.




  • 6.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Posted 03-11-2017 08:49
    I use lag bolts, threaded to the head. I've also used nuts and bolts on the bottom to secure if the terrain is not smooth and the wheels likely to get jarred on an uneven surface.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
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  • 7.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-11-2017 12:25
    Typical, someone from the church had the brilliant idea to do this, ordered them online, and just lifted the piano onto them. They are probably not attached at all and are now a danger

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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
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  • 8.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Posted 03-12-2017 03:31
    Lag bolts. Are these what in the UK we 'Coach Bolts' which are sturdy square or hex-headed bolts with threads from the screw tip to (depending on choice) two or more inches up the shank? They can be many lengths or diameter (pretty well). There's a new and interesting wood screw on the market made by 'Carpenters Mate'. They're quite expensive but very fast to use. Each box comes with a 'drive tool' for your power driver to suit the type of head on the screws in that particular box. There's no 'pre-drilling' as each screw has, at its point, a drill point. They're intended for heavy duty work (roof trusses, timber frame houses) or multi-purpose. May even be for piano dollies! See them on: 


    Michael    UK  





  • 9.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-11-2017 12:14
    Thank you all for your responses. Excuse me if I sound like an idiot for these follow-up questions. 

    Is the dolly, in fact, placed correctly?

    I don't understand about the screws. I understand why screws would be important, but I don't understand the where. Is there a diagram some place that I could look up and see locations of these screws?

    Thanks --

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    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
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  • 10.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-11-2017 12:38
    Geoff

    Yes, the dollies are in the right place. As far as where the screws go in, that will become very evident once you've got the piano on its back. You will need to drill holes in the back and on the bottom for the screws to go into.

    The reasons I like lag bolts is because the they are bigger, and the heads allow them to be flush with the metal brackets.

    One more thing. You said the piano rocks back and forth.  It could be that the previous tech did attach the dolly with screws on the bottom, but if the piano still rocks then the whole bottom plank must be loose. So when you've got the piano on its back, make sure all the bottom plank screws are tight.


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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 11.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Posted 03-11-2017 19:13
    The bottom might not be flat, in which case you'll need to shim. It could be two or three levels. Or rounded like some pianos. The location looks OK, you just need to make sure that the dollies are not too close to the toe blocks because the front casters might bind on them when they swivel.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
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  • 12.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-12-2017 01:34
    Especially for the lag screws which fasten into the back, it's important to get the strongest ones available.  If the  twin dollies hit an obstruction when the piano is being moved, there's a lot of leverage applied to the back flange as the piano tries to tilt and I've seen the heads come off.  The bolts securing the bottom are not so critical as the weight of the piano is working in their favor.  Look for the radial markings on the head of the bolt or lag screw.  No mark indicates the weakest grade, six the strongest.  Stainless is stronger than the poorest grade, but not necessarily equivalent to a six.  However, typically it's the only upgrade available at most hardware stores.  If you can't find a better grade of lag screw at the hardware store, consider drilling out the hole in the flange to accommodate a thicker one.  I don't think longer bolt would help in this situation.

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    Cecil Snyder
    Torrance CA
    310-542-7108
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  • 13.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-12-2017 01:13
    Ah. My bad, I presumed everybody knew they are bolted in the back of the piano. I'm sorry I don't currently have pictures to illustrate. 

    My procedure for installing heavy duty dollies:

    1. Using piano tilter, raise piano up onto its back. 
    2. Remove old casters. Sometimes they are in the way, sometimes they will rattle. 
    3. Check positioning of the dollies. They should be:
      a. As close to the sides of the piano as possible, to avoid bending the bottom of the piano upwards towards the keybed. 
      b. If there are "toes" on the piano, the side of the front of the dolly comes up against the toe. 
      b. Flat to the bottom of the piano, and to the back of the piano. Modifying the back of the piano may be necessary to allow proper fit. 
      c. Check the back structure. It may allow all four screw holes to be used, or three, or only two. Determine how long of a screw will fit without interfering with soundboard, etc.
    4. Attach dolly with two short screws to the bottom of the piano.
    5. Pre-drill for the lag screws in the back of the piano.
    6. Install back lag screws.
    7. Hold the dolly caster out of the way, and pre-drill through the side of the dolly into the toe. 
    8. Install a lag screw into the toe. 

    I have a kit with an assortment of lag screws of different lengths, lock washers, flat washers, drill bits and sockets. 

    With lag screws installed into the back, some pianos are stable. I have found many will still rock front to back. Screwing the front of the dolly into the toe eliminates this extra (annoying) movement. 

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    David Stocker
    Olympia WA
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  • 14.  RE: Upright stage dolly question

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-12-2017 01:15
    Jon, this design of dolly is wider than the radius of the caster's wheel movement. It cannot hit the toe. 

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    David Stocker
    Olympia WA
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