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directory

  • 1.  directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-16-2017 00:27
    Some time ago there was talk about creating a searchable data base of all colleges/universities and their technicians. What happened with that idea?
    ​​

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 2.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-17-2017 09:21
    Hi Wim,

    That database was created roughly 10 or 12 years ago but I cannot tell you what happened to the effort to keep the files current after I went off the CAUT committee. It was a time consuming job. I was involved with setting up the list and still have the files. To some degree they are certainly out of date. The Home Office also had the files but you would have to ask Kathy if they are still there.

    Don

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    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-17-2017 15:06
    Don

    Thanks for your response. But it isn't that old list I was talking about. As I said, there was talk about creating a searchable data base. So I guess that never materialized.

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 4.  RE: directory

    Posted 09-17-2017 18:42
    Hi Wim

    Initially, I recall that the Endorsements page was a cornerstone aspect to the guidelines to provide crediblity.

    Since we have the CAUT forum and members of the forum are able to communicate to each other ... isn't the membership already searchable?

    What do you think should change?


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    Garret Traylor
    Trinity NC
    336-887-4266
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  • 5.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-17-2017 18:46
    Garrett. 

    We know each other, and what schools we are in.  What I was looking for is a data base we can go to to find the tech at a certain university.

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 6.  RE: directory

    Posted 09-17-2017 18:53
    This should be easily done, just a matter of having an additional field in the member profile.

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    Garret Traylor
    Trinity NC
    336-887-4266
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  • 7.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-17-2017 20:02
    Garret,

    That is essentially what happened some time after we developed the database. After the revamp of the member profiles, fields were added for the members to list their affiliation to schools. Currently one can add the affiliation in the "Business Name, General Information or Services Offered fields. IMHO, it would be best to add a field that is labeled "CAUT Affiliation" or something similar. Also, it would be nice to add a searchable feature to generate a list.

    Back in the day we had more ambitious plans to stay in touch with most of the schools and build a large database. The idea was to keep in touch with the technicians (PTG member or not) and their schools. Perhaps it was too ambitious! :-)

    Don

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    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-18-2017 01:48
    Back in the day we had more ambitious plans to stay in touch with most of the schools and build a large database. The idea was to keep in touch with the technicians (PTG member or not) and their schools. Perhaps it was too ambitious! :-) Don


    This is what I was asking about. But it was not just to keep in touch with each other, My vision is to be able to do a search of a university, and the technician would show up, or visa a versa. The idea would be to enter all universities and colleges that have a music department, even if there were only as few as 6 pianos and a faculty of two, and the technician who takes care of the pianos, whether they were a member of PTG or not.

    I realize this would be a tremendous undertaking, but if a small committee would be given the task, and allowed to work on it for several years, I believe it could be done. 

    Just a thought.

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 9.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-18-2017 11:40
    The database Don McKechnie developed and maintained for years was up on our CAUT website (hosted by CAUT Scott Thile on a the Murray State University server), and during the last years it was searchable and I believe you could edit (add your own name and position). When we moved to My.PTG, we exerted quite a bit of effort trying to find a way to either port that database to our My.PTG microsite, or to find a way to use the PTG directory and its interface to allow for the same kind of search ability. We hit brick walls, and so that fizzled. One of the problems was the fact that many people had a lot of part time gigs, and the directory could only handle one institutional entry per tech. That directory relies on members to enter accurate information and to update it. (When was the last time you checked your full information there and made sure it was accurate?) And obviously it would include only PTG members - at one point we guessed that that might be half the CAUT jobs.

    The problem with such a project is to find people who are not only willing to volunteer to do the work, but who will also actually follow through. There are over 2000 music degree granting programs in the US, as I recall (College Music Society directory). A pretty mammoth undertaking, when you consider that getting accurate data for each job can take hours of research. In some cases, usually with place that have full time techs, they are fairly accessible on the institution's website, but in most they are buried or nowhere (especially with "contract" cauts, who are the vast majority). 
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico






  • 10.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-18-2017 12:50

    The problem with such a project is to find people who are not only willing to volunteer to do the work, but who will also actually follow through. There are over 2000 music degree granting programs in the US, as I recall (College Music Society directory). A pretty mammoth undertaking, when you consider that getting accurate data for each job can take hours of research. In some cases, usually with place that have full time techs, they are fairly accessible on the institution's website, but in most they are buried or nowhere (especially with "contract" cauts, who are the vast majority). 

    Regards,

    Fred Sturm

    I agree with Fred.  When I was at the University of Alabama I wanted to find out the piano tech at all the Alabama universities. So I sent an email to piano faculty at all the schools asking who their tech was. About half of them replied, but quite a few had no idea who took care of their pianos. I even asked some of the department chair, and they couldn't, or wouldn't, give me a name. 

    I don't have a solution. I only asked the question. 



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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 11.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-18-2017 14:16
      |   view attached
    Thanks much for the explanation Fred. After our 2005 survey I developed the database using FileMaker Pro. There were many searchable parameters (see attached) available and more probably could have been added. The PTG member database alone contained 609 full-time and contract CAUT's. I also had a mailing list to 1,741 schools. Maintaining such as database does take a long-term commitment and I doubt there is much willingness in PTG to do so.

    Don

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    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]
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  • 12.  RE: directory

    Posted 09-18-2017 17:59
    CAUT will always be exemplary for developing the Guidelines for Institutional Maintenance. I would love to see something similar adopted for the band repair profession.

    KISS
    Keep it simple sweetie!  :-)

    As for getting every school and technician(s) paired within a database appears to a wistful expectation. It is not apparent to me that such a database would even have a cost benefit.

    Because of marketing channels already in place prospective employers and technicians can already connect via various job applications and websites.

    Continuing to encourage our members to become proactive with their profile will give us the biggest bang for our efforts.

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    Garret Traylor
    Trinity NC
    336-887-4266
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  • 13.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-18-2017 23:41
    Having a data base of CAUT's and their university will never be cost effective. But them neither is having our entire membership on file. 

    But speaking of our searchable data base for our members, we already have that in place. Customers, (and us), can search for members by name, chapter, city and/or zip codes. Would it be possible to add the university the member works at or for to the searchable parameters?  Of course each member would need to keep their own information up to date, and, of course, it would only be good for our membership.  We would still not be able to do a search for any music program. Would that be something the CAUT committee could approach the HO/Board with?

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 14.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-19-2017 08:54
    Garret,

    One of the primary reasons for the database was to market PTG to non members and schools. There was no analysis of its cost effectiveness that I am aware of but, for a couple of years at least we did raise awareness. We saw an increase in non member CAUT's attending conventions and schools were receiving our mailings. I cannot help but wonder how well the effort would have worked if we could have sustained it. Oh well, onward to new and fruitful endeavors to promote PTG and CAUT technicians!

    Don

    Don McKechnie, RPT
    Piano Technician
    Home: 607.277.7112
    Cell: 607.339.8679

    Sent from my iPad





  • 15.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-19-2017 09:22
    Don't we have a full-time employed person at PTG headquarters whose job is media, website, my.ptg, etc?  Would it be unreasonable to expect him to create and maintain a database as part of his job, especially if it actually would get non-member CAUTs to come to conventions, as stated below?  I imagine in the long run it would increase membership and create more awareness at the college level of our organization and give more credibility to our "Guidelines", which state that a University Tech should be an RPT, etc...  To me, this seems doable, and it seems like the type of thing the PTG home office should consider.

    David Pritchard





  • 16.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-19-2017 12:15
    David,

    That was part of the plan with regard to someone in the Home Office working on the marketing and getting CAUT committee input. Fred spoke to the issues involving the my.ptg site. Why the plan was never fully implemented is beyond my knowledge. As mentioned, we did pull in non member CAUT's during those years.

    Don

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    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]
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  • 17.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-19-2017 14:17
    Don,

    I think it's amazing that you actually got the original information. A few years ago I tried just pulling together the Big 10 and Big 12 schools' technicians and struggled to get the information compiled. I can't imagine what it must have been like to try to pull together 2000 schools. Perhaps with a committee of several people it could be done. But, then, to keep the list up-to-date would be difficult as well, so I can see why the home office either didn't want to tackle that or dropped the ball. 

    I like the idea of having a database. Throughout my tenure at Nebraska, I thought university techs were an untapped resource for PTG. The outreach, local base/chapter support,  and education possibilities seemed obvious. But, like piano technicians in general, getting independent guys to cooperate is like herding cats. I can say that I had an effect on the hiring of the last technician at NE. As you may remember, I made a concerted effort to affect the job description. I even wrote a letter to the faculty which many CAUTs supported. A year or so ago I heard that the Director of the School of Music was upset with me. He felt that airing my concerns affected the pool of applicants. I was somewhat taken aback when I heard that, but maybe there was some truth to it. After I left, they had dropped the salary for my position considerably and did not improve the amount in any significant way. Today they're in a hiring freeze, so the university has gone back to contract technicians. Sad state of affairs. I don't think NE is an isolated case. Public support of public institutions is in a sorry state.

    I don't know if having a database would help. If I affected the pool of applicants, would a pool of technicians be helpful or just perceived as a "union" of sorts interfering with university hiring. 

    Richard West








  • 18.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-20-2017 10:05
    Richard,

    Getting the schools list together was the easy part. They were compiled from the College Music Society and NASM directories. Getting the technicians names was the more challenging part. Through mailing surveys, surveys taken during CAUT classes at conventions and web searches we did a pretty good job. Of course, this goes back to the discussion of maintaining the list of CAUT's and keeping it up to date.

    Your story of what happened at NE is truly a sad one. I believe the biggest hurtle for technicians and the schools is the salary issue. The pool is not going to be good if the salary is not good. Salary was another of our primary goals during the day. The schools need to understand the value of having a qualified technician and therefore offer a good salary. That task would obviously have to be a long term commitment by PTG. The schools were not going to be educated overnight!

    This is not an easy issue to tackle and each school presents its own unique challenges with budget and personalities. I do believe inroads could have been made with persistence. Of course, I believed that the PTG CAUT Certification would have been good in regard to this discussion but the is opening up an old can of worms!

    Don

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    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]
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  • 19.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-20-2017 20:48
    Hi-

    Glad this discussion has come up again.  I think I always imagined the directory would be of more value to us than to anyone else, and even if it was limited to PTG members that's not a bad start. Hopefully word would get out and people would like being included, but naturally we have little influence on non-members. If each us updated our dues membership information that included a field for institutional work, and a brief description of employee or contacted, full-time or part-time, it should not be a big step to transfer that into a directory and go from there. 


    best,

    Dennis Johnson
    St. Olaf College 





  • 20.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-20-2017 14:26
    There was no analysis of its cost effectiveness that I am aware of but, for a couple of years at least we did raise awareness. We saw an increase in non member CAUT's attending conventions and schools were receiving our mailings. I cannot help but wonder how well the effort would have worked if we could have sustained it. Oh well, onward to new and fruitful endeavors to promote PTG and CAUT technicians!

    Don

    If there were more attendance at convention of non-member CAUT's, it would seem to me that the Board would keep that program going. When more CAUT"s attend convention, they are more likely to join the PTG.

    But I would like to suggest one very important thing when we contact non-member CAUT's. We need to invite them to join the PTG, period. We should put more emphasis on being part of the organization, and not on becoming an RPT. Let the CAUT's decide on whether or not becoming an RPT is for them. Let them make that a personal choice, not one that the PTG is "forcing" them to become.

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 21.  RE: directory

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 09-20-2017 15:06
    "But I would like to suggest one very important thing when we contact non-member CAUT's. We need to invite them to join the PTG, period. We should put more emphasis on being part of the organization, and not on becoming an RPT. Let the CAUT's decide on whether or not becoming an RPT is for them. Let them make that a personal choice, not one that the PTG is "forcing" them to become." Wim

    WIM!! Yes!! I belive you are REALLY on to something now! 
    Doing things that will DRAW those interested and prospects is the ABSOLUTE best approach. Pressure and the like just does not work. It's counter productive even. 
    I passed my exams in Austin in '93 at...yep..a very active, prominent University. (Butler SOM at UT). From my viewpoint, I had a huge desire to become an RPT from pretty much day one. Now that I've been a CAUT for nearly 10 years, it seems evident that CAUTS in general are a very underutilized and dare I say "underappreciated" segment. 
    I do not know the answer or answers, but if there were something we could do to help DRAW these CAUTS to be involved more, then we have a "WIN-WIN". 
    I'm not sure how this can or could be done. I don't really think it's about the money so much--so a very small discount to conventions may or may not do anything. Nor am I suggesting putting CAUTS on a pedistal. But encouraging us to be involved more, or things of this nature perhaps could help. The RPT status is really not broken or a bad thing. Pretty much every accountant wants to be a "CPA" and in the same way the RPT is already desired. My 2 cents worth--hope it doesn't "fall flat". <grin>

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    [Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
    [Staff Techician]
    [Texas Tech Univ]
    [Lubbock] [TX]
    [8067783962]
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  • 22.  RE: directory

    Posted 09-18-2017 07:51
    Hi Don,
    Sounds like a good plan.

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    Garret Traylor
    Trinity NC
    336-887-4266
    ------------------------------