Well Benjamin, science is a good and honorable word in my world. I wish you peace in yours.
Paul M. Rattigan
Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2016 12:19
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: Steinway's Dead Octave on a Graph?
Paul,
Science is such a loaded word to-day. I am having difficulty responding because you used it. This will sound cryptic without meaning to be so.
Generally Hayek is thought to have alienated himself, to be revered and feared, for being a bloodthirsty capitalist in a dialectic with Keynes. I disagree.
He challenged the science that William James created by following Comte and creating a positivistic psychology. That is why Hayek got abandoned. This was James' very goal and claim. At the heart of every 12 step group. Celebrate positivism. Ever since everything is justified and verified by the physical sciences, Orient and Occident. The Asians are flocking the ivy league to be doctors and practice a medicine founded on the physical sciences. But medicine is one of the 5 Arts of Chinese metaphysics, not the physical sciences.
These sort of arguments buy into that sort of worldview. The counseling movement in the seminaries has convinced Evangelicals theology and metaphysics are worthless. I just don't have time or authority to explain.
------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
Original Message:
Sent: 12-04-2016 19:03
From: Paul M. Rattigan
Subject: Steinway's Dead Octave on a Graph?
Hello Benjamin,
I apologize for being delayed in responding to your thoughtful email. Things have been very busy around here.
Although we may have some disagreements as to the particulars of piano technology, we seem to have much in common in terms of experience and the degree of passion we both bring to the subject.
Although I never worked directly for Steinway (although I did get a job offer to work at the Hall in 1980 for the princely sum of $5.75 per hour!), I had an association with the Boston dealer for more than 20 years - performing tuning, prep., repair, and concert work. Though never an insider, as you put it, I did see enough to know it would never have been a good fit for me. I agree with your assessment of the corporate culture at Steinway, and the problems that a relaxed sense of entitlement has fostered.
I only now realize that I came to this thread a little late, and can bring nothing to the subject of soundboard design as it relates to the dead zone on Steinway grand pianos. I have never installed a soundboard, and have focused my career on tone development from the keyboard end of things.
As I see it, even the most dedicated among us, who work tirelessly toward improved methods and protocol are working more in the realm of art that of science. I'm a big believer in the creative process, but I think we can agree that more science, in the form of controlled experimentation, could avoid so much of the back and forth that goes on on this blog.
There most definitely are some things about our approach to the work that we disagree on - with each of us equally convince of the rectitude of our own methods. The question for me is: How better to get to a resolution of such disagreements than by employing the scientific method through controlled experiments? Speaking for myself, finding the best methods to achieve our goals as technicians is so much more important than protecting my ego (of which I have no shortage in that category), should it turn out that any of my dearly held opinions should prove to be flawed.
I would like to see the PTG show some leadership in getting to hard and fast results - rather than simply refereeing verbal brawls on the internet.
Enough said for now. I'm more than happy to keep up the dialogue. Let me know your thoughts.
Paul
------------------------------
Paul M. Rattigan
Senior Concert Piano Technician
Cambridge MA
781-659-4681
Original Message:
Sent: 12-01-2016 20:04
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: Steinway's Dead Octave on a Graph?
Ok Paul. In first person.
What is the problem with Steinway, i my opinion? It is not a dead octave.
I perhaps claimed too much about voicing procedures, hammer manufacturing, and shank tapering manufacturing and distribution. The fact is a soundboard should not be engineered around mistakes in these areas. The reason I brought up your thoughts on the discussion “Last Minute Switch to Fazioli…” is to find a way to agree, and participate, in what you very well may be absolutely correct about. Piano technicians frequently prepare pianos wrong in doing work having nothing to do with soundboards to pianos.
I thought of starting a new thread, “What is the problem with Steinway.” It is not a dead octave. You can kill the ostensible dead octave on any piano with voicing techniques trade schools rave about. The problem with Steinway is best summed up in verse 3 from the “Dao De Jing:"
(Keeping the people at rest)
Not to value and employ men of superior ability is the way to keep the people from rivalry among themselves; not to prize articles which are difficult to procure is the way to keep them from becoming thieves; not to show them what is likely to excite their desires is the way to keep their minds from disorder. Therefore the sage, in the exercise of his government, empties their minds, fills their bellies, weakens their wills, and strengthens their bones. He constantly (tries to) keep them without knowledge and without desire, and where there are those who have knowledge, to keep them from presuming to act (on it). When there is this abstinence from action, good order is universal.[1]
No, the biggest problem for Steinway is its unparalleled reputation. Steinway turns men into animals fighting over bare bones. Innumerable “Steinway artists” don’t want to be on the list but stay there because to not be one is to not have a career in the arts. This is a horrible position to be in as Steinway, to have so discouraged opposition. The problem is not “the dead octave.” It is not nepotism. It is not innovation or tradition. It is not inferiority or superiority.
The best thing people can do for Steinway problems is not to reengineer pianos to compensate for “Dead octaves.” I’ve seen people create dead octaves on Yamaha concert grands voicing. No, the best thing people can do for Steinway is recognize the fact that a whole host of other manufacturers are doing things for pianos as good and better.
The Steinway family is the most dysfunctional corporate family on the planet because so many people are fighting to get in it, and behaving like beasts in order to do so. The best I can do as someone born into Steinway is to express my appreciation for the superiority of other products.
Part of the reason people go crazy with needles these days is they refuse to tune aurally, and lose all sense of the art in our work.
[1] ctext.org/dao-de-jing
------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
Original Message:
Sent: 11-30-2016 18:29
From: Paul M. Rattigan
Subject: Steinway's Dead Octave on a Graph?
Benjamin,
As a general rule of discourse, I have difficulty when people state opinion as indisputable fact, as you have here - especially when my opinion as to what the facts are is at variance, at least in part, to yours.
(A little more clarity in stating exactly what your opinions are would be helpful, as well.)
Just saying.....
Sent from my iPhone
------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
Original Message:
Sent: 12-06-2016 05:03
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: Steinway's Dead Octave on a Graph?
Paul,
Science is such a loaded word to-day. I am having difficulty responding because you used it. This will sound cryptic without meaning to be so.
Generally Hayek is thought to have alienated himself, to be revered and feared, for being a bloodthirsty capitalist in a dialectic with Keynes. I disagree.
He challenged the science that William James created by following Comte and creating a positivistic psychology. That is why Hayek got abandoned. This was James' very goal and claim. At the heart of every 12 step group. Celebrate positivism. Ever since everything is justified and verified by the physical sciences, Orient and Occident. The Asians are flocking the ivy league to be doctors and practice a medicine founded on the physical sciences. But medicine is one of the 5 Arts of Chinese metaphysics, not the physical sciences.
These sort of arguments buy into that sort of worldview. The counseling movement in the seminaries has convinced Evangelicals theology and metaphysics are worthless. I just don't have time or authority to explain.
------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
Original Message:
Sent: 12-04-2016 19:03
From: Paul M. Rattigan
Subject: Steinway's Dead Octave on a Graph?
Hello Benjamin,
I apologize for being delayed in responding to your thoughtful email. Things have been very busy around here.
Although we may have some disagreements as to the particulars of piano technology, we seem to have much in common in terms of experience and the degree of passion we both bring to the subject.
Although I never worked directly for Steinway (although I did get a job offer to work at the Hall in 1980 for the princely sum of $5.75 per hour!), I had an association with the Boston dealer for more than 20 years - performing tuning, prep., repair, and concert work. Though never an insider, as you put it, I did see enough to know it would never have been a good fit for me. I agree with your assessment of the corporate culture at Steinway, and the problems that a relaxed sense of entitlement has fostered.
I only now realize that I came to this thread a little late, and can bring nothing to the subject of soundboard design as it relates to the dead zone on Steinway grand pianos. I have never installed a soundboard, and have focused my career on tone development from the keyboard end of things.
As I see it, even the most dedicated among us, who work tirelessly toward improved methods and protocol are working more in the realm of art that of science. I'm a big believer in the creative process, but I think we can agree that more science, in the form of controlled experimentation, could avoid so much of the back and forth that goes on on this blog.
There most definitely are some things about our approach to the work that we disagree on - with each of us equally convince of the rectitude of our own methods. The question for me is: How better to get to a resolution of such disagreements than by employing the scientific method through controlled experiments? Speaking for myself, finding the best methods to achieve our goals as technicians is so much more important than protecting my ego (of which I have no shortage in that category), should it turn out that any of my dearly held opinions should prove to be flawed.
I would like to see the PTG show some leadership in getting to hard and fast results - rather than simply refereeing verbal brawls on the internet.
Enough said for now. I'm more than happy to keep up the dialogue. Let me know your thoughts.
Paul
------------------------------
Paul M. Rattigan
Senior Concert Piano Technician
Cambridge MA
781-659-4681
Original Message:
Sent: 12-01-2016 20:04
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: Steinway's Dead Octave on a Graph?
Ok Paul. In first person.
What is the problem with Steinway, i my opinion? It is not a dead octave.
I perhaps claimed too much about voicing procedures, hammer manufacturing, and shank tapering manufacturing and distribution. The fact is a soundboard should not be engineered around mistakes in these areas. The reason I brought up your thoughts on the discussion “Last Minute Switch to Fazioli…” is to find a way to agree, and participate, in what you very well may be absolutely correct about. Piano technicians frequently prepare pianos wrong in doing work having nothing to do with soundboards to pianos.
I thought of starting a new thread, “What is the problem with Steinway.” It is not a dead octave. You can kill the ostensible dead octave on any piano with voicing techniques trade schools rave about. The problem with Steinway is best summed up in verse 3 from the “Dao De Jing:"
(Keeping the people at rest)
Not to value and employ men of superior ability is the way to keep the people from rivalry among themselves; not to prize articles which are difficult to procure is the way to keep them from becoming thieves; not to show them what is likely to excite their desires is the way to keep their minds from disorder. Therefore the sage, in the exercise of his government, empties their minds, fills their bellies, weakens their wills, and strengthens their bones. He constantly (tries to) keep them without knowledge and without desire, and where there are those who have knowledge, to keep them from presuming to act (on it). When there is this abstinence from action, good order is universal.[1]
No, the biggest problem for Steinway is its unparalleled reputation. Steinway turns men into animals fighting over bare bones. Innumerable “Steinway artists” don’t want to be on the list but stay there because to not be one is to not have a career in the arts. This is a horrible position to be in as Steinway, to have so discouraged opposition. The problem is not “the dead octave.” It is not nepotism. It is not innovation or tradition. It is not inferiority or superiority.
The best thing people can do for Steinway problems is not to reengineer pianos to compensate for “Dead octaves.” I’ve seen people create dead octaves on Yamaha concert grands voicing. No, the best thing people can do for Steinway is recognize the fact that a whole host of other manufacturers are doing things for pianos as good and better.
The Steinway family is the most dysfunctional corporate family on the planet because so many people are fighting to get in it, and behaving like beasts in order to do so. The best I can do as someone born into Steinway is to express my appreciation for the superiority of other products.
Part of the reason people go crazy with needles these days is they refuse to tune aurally, and lose all sense of the art in our work.
[1] ctext.org/dao-de-jing
------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
Original Message:
Sent: 11-30-2016 18:29
From: Paul M. Rattigan
Subject: Steinway's Dead Octave on a Graph?
Benjamin,
As a general rule of discourse, I have difficulty when people state opinion as indisputable fact, as you have here - especially when my opinion as to what the facts are is at variance, at least in part, to yours.
(A little more clarity in stating exactly what your opinions are would be helpful, as well.)
Just saying.....
Sent from my iPhone