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Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

  • 1.  Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-17-2017 12:25
    Greetings.

    I am employed by a prestigious school of music in New England and I need some advice. We are considering the purchase of several upright pianos for general purpose practice rooms. I am not a pianist or piano technician but our piano services operation is within my area of responsibility and as such, I am responsible for making a recommendation about the purchase. The pianos we're considering are:

    Boston UP126
    Boston UP118
    Yamaha U1

    For the past 10 year or so, we have purchased Yamaha U1's based on the opinions of our technicians and other techs in the area as well as our bad experience with late 1990's - era Boston's. This Boston's didn't hold up to the daily use and abuse at all and didn't stay in tune. The U1's have done well for us and they would seem to be a better choice. However, I understand that the Boston's have been redesigned and I'm told  they are much more stable and durable than the ones we have before. None of our techs have any experience with the recent ones in an institutional setting so they really don't know what to advise. They do have a general preference for the Yamaha's over the recent Kawai's we've had.

    Pricing on the Yamaha's is a little better than the Boston's but there is also the issue of our maintaining our very good relationship with our Steinway/Boston dealer to consider (which is why I'm shielding the name of the school and my name in case they should see this, although they could probably figure it out anyway).  The "all Steinway school" designation is not important to us.

    Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

    ------------------------------
    Mr. College Administrator who has to buy some pianos
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-17-2017 12:28
    Stick with the Yamaha U1, imho. 
    Bostons have gotten better, but I still prefer the U1 for institutional use. 

    Debbie Cyr
    Registered Piano Technician 
    508-202-2862 cell

    Sent from my iPhone





  • 3.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-17-2017 12:35
    Dear Mr. College Administrator Who Has to Buy Some Pianos,

    You've been made (your name appeared asa link at the top of the post). FYI.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-17-2017 12:37
    Yah....I saw that after I posted. Oh well....

    Hey, it's just business, right? ;-)

    ------------------------------
    Brian Yankee
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-17-2017 12:50
    Dear Brian,
    You are correct about one thing in particular: 
    "...although they could probably figure it out anyway). "
    You are in the remarkably unusual situation where you have an embarrassment of opinion resources at your disposal, in virtual walking distance, especially on a nice day like this.  Your in-house technical staff has demurred, for what are likely a range of extra-technical issues.  You've said:
    "There is also the issue of our maintaining our very good relationship with our Steinway/Boston dealer to consider", while, at the same time "The "all Steinway school" designation is not important to us."  
    That relationship is also important to the technician's who would be qualified to provide you with reliable input.

    This is not the same level of stress that might otherwise the purchase of a new concert instrument, but my best advice would be to figure out how to establish trusted personal relationships with a technical community whose personal advice you felt comfortable relying on.

    Sincerely,
    David Skolnik, RPT
    former attendee at Prestigious Music Shool

    ------------------------------
    David Skolnik
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-17-2017 13:57
    David -

    You are correct. There are a remarkable number of piano techs in the vicinity. I have good relationships with many of the them and have consulted them on a wide range of issues over the years. The one thing that they all seem to lack, however, is experience with the newer Boston uprights in institutional rather than home settings. There is a general prejudice against the Boston's and in favor of the Yamaha, and I have to (and do!) respect that. However, that prejudice seems to be based on their experiences with older examples before they were redesigned. What I am hoping for is for some advice based on actual experience with the current models so that I can base my recommendations on the pianos as they are now and not what they were 10 years ago.

    ------------------------------
    Brian Yankee
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-17-2017 14:03
    I meant to add that when I said that the all-Steinway school designation is not important to us, I should have said that obtaining the all Steinway school status is not a priority for us. Rather, our priority is to obtain the best pianos at the best price to meet our needs. If they happen to be Steinways and Bostons and that qualifies us as an all-Stein school, that's fine, but the selection of pianos we purchase will not be driven by whether they are/are not Steinways/Bostons just so we can achieve that status.

    ------------------------------
    Brian Yankee
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-17-2017 14:20
    Here at a Prestigious (West Coast) Music School, we bought a slew of Yamaha U1s nearly thirty years ago. Some of the best piano-acquisition money we have ever spent. Aside from a few under-engineered pieces of hardware that have had to routinely be replaced, they have held up exceedingly well over the decades (and many of them in practice rooms that are available to the students 24/7--the true tag-team torture test!). 

    I have no comparative experience with Bostons in an institutional setting, whether old or new.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-17-2017 15:05
    Well here at Boston University Music School the last major purchase of uprights was in 1985 just when i started and at that time 30 Baldwin Hamilton's were the choice to fill that portion of the inventory. They have never had the usage  of course that the practice room grand pianos receive, mostly vocalists, some composition students, or harmony  theory practice , but the cabinets have suffered over the years. Yamaha U1  models would be fine but maybe  too much piano for intended usage  as piano performance students are never going to use them, so Yamaha P22 would be an option, and my preference over any ''Boston'' brand piano. 2 years ago we bought 6  Yamaha digital hybrid NU1 pianos which I notice now are getting much more usage by students, including instrumentalists wanting to take  a break from their primary instrument in long practice sessions  but who also are quite accomplished pianists. They have been versatile in their usage they do have a very acceptable ''harpsichord '' voice  which has been very useful in scheduling  preliminary  chamber reh's in practice rooms that do not have a h'schord, also pitch can very easily  be lowered to accommodate Baroque reh's. We also used the NU1  in rehearsal for the 2 piano piece by Ives with pianos tuned a quarter tone apart. At performance  we used one of our Yamaha Avant Grands as the pitch altered  instrument.
    The pricing on the NU1's is very competitive to the P22, there is of course still a need for a certain number of traditional  upright acoustic instruments in any school's inventory but I'd recommend  complimenting that with initially a small number of NU1 models to give the students and faculty  another musical experience choice. Talk to  Tony Falcetti the local Boston area Yamaha  dealer..........

    ------------------------------
    Martin Snow
    Boston MA
    617-543-1030
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-17-2017 23:58
    You could use the lack of time testing for the new Essex models to try to secure extra warranty coverage or depreciated buy-back price warranties, to make the seller stand behind their claims of durability. If a new product has no track record, that factor should be part of the price equation, especially in an institutional setting.

    ------------------------------
    Edward McMorrow
    Edmonds WA
    425-299-3431
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-18-2017 06:24
    I've had experience with the 118's from 2008. Yes they have a good tone and are fairly dependable mechanically, but could never hold their tuning for more than a week. One thing for sure, climate control, as with any piano, has to be pristine but in the Boston case even more so. That should be a big consideration when purchasing an instrument.
    For that reason, Yamaha U1 is a very solid piano and can stand up against pretty bad climate. Another choice to consider, if there happens to be a dealer, is Charles Walter.
    As for the all Steinway school, be wary if you're climate control is indeed out of whack for your warranty will be voided.

    Sent from my iPad




  • 12.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-18-2017 07:07
    Brian -
    In spite of my initial skepticism with regard to the effectiveness of this particular mode of outreach, I think you've gotten some genuinely worthwhile responses.  I am fond of Ed McMurrow's thought of sharing, or even more accurately, displacing the risk.  If a dealer or manufacturer is making claims regarding stability and durability, they should be willing to stand by those assertions.  All of this, of course, assumes that the actual instrument more than adequately fulfills the necessary musical requirements.  

    Out of prurient curiosity,  has the institution made efforts to deal with environmental humidity issues?

    Best wishes

    ------------------------------
    David Skolnik
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-18-2017 08:20
    Adding to Ed's thoughts on Essex: these are very much worth considering as posdibly even a better choice than the Bostons. I was able to tune quite a few of these at a University not too far from me and was very impressed actually. It may depend a bit on the model but the ones here had a big powerfull bass and were built very solid. These pianos are not all that new and from what I have heard from Jim Busby (he was at BYU for many years and my understanding is they bought a bunch of Essex quite a few years ago. His reviews were actually pretty good for these pianos. He may be another source for you to contact--??)

    About 2 years ago we (Texas Tech School of music) had a huge donor give monies for 29 new Yamaha U1s. Probably a wonderful decision for us in the long run and I echo other thoughts others have made about these. 
    (One caveat for us has been that these pianos were "straight off the truck" with ZERO prep. Dealer did cover basic prep and one free tuning, but these pianos do require quite a bit more work to really break in than I would have thought based on my other experiences with U1s. 

    Honestly the main issues with Boston may be nearly impossible to overcome. Past reputation perhaps the biggest hurdle, the other being logistics with Kawai, Steinway, PRICING, etc. This is IMHO!

    ------------------------------
    [Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
    [Staff Techician]
    [Texas Tech Univ]
    [Lubbock] [TX]
    [8067783962]
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-18-2017 12:01
    Thanks to everyone for the replies. You've given me much to consider. I hadn't thought of the Essex pianos as a viable alternative and I like Ed's suggestion re: spreading the risk around.

    To answer David's question:  Unfortunately our facilities are not climate controlled. In fact, they are about as far from "climate controlled" as you can get, which makes piano tuning and maintenance quite a challenge. At least we had a relatively mild winter this year and, unlike last year, the techs didn't have to scoop snow out of one of our Steinway B's because a student left a window open during an overnight snowstorm.

    ------------------------------
    Brian Yankee

    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-18-2017 13:05

    Brian:

    I feel compelled to comment on your search for pianos.  As you have discovered, piano purchases can be tricky business and time consuming. For many university piano technicians keeping up with piano developments (brands, models, prices, rebuilding vs. new, etc.) in order to be ready to make recommendations to administrators is part and parcel of the job.  It seems obvious that would be the case. 

    However, administrators too often don't appreciate the adminstrative/managerial part of a staff technician's job. This oversight all too often leads to a negative impact on the position's pay scale. I hope your introduction to a piano tech's world will give you a greater appreciation of the multifaceted, and multilayered nature of university piano service.  University techs must not only be skilled at their craft, but capable at taking care of an inventory often worth millions.  Moreover, work on concert instruments is a public face for the unversity. For a good overview of our work consult the publication Guidelines for Effective Institutional Piano Maintenance. It is a bit self serving, but it is educational. It is available at

    http://my.ptg.org/communities/community-home/librarydocuments?LibraryKey=6ed0ec0a-4df5-48ee-bd82-b9889df7b97c

    I hope you will share what you have learned with colleagues around the country. I have known many university technicians with supervisors who typically felt piano technicians were little more than piano janitors and paid them accordingly.  Since working for a university can be very rewarding and satisfying professionally, many technicians endure poor pay and poor recognition. Often university technicians are put in compromising situations when university demands conflict with personal business schedules. One university administrator thought she was doing the piano technician a big favor by providing a sort of endorsement. She used that argument to say she couldn't do anything about the low pay. "You can get so much outside work!" she said.  When I worked for the University of Nebraska, I refused outside work. I was getting paid for 40 hours of work and wanted to have a life beyond that.

    Sorry if this has gone on too long. Thanks for "listening." 

     Richard West, Registered Piano Technician, Piano Technicians Guild, Inc.

    Former Staff Piano Technician, University of Nebraska, Lincoln, NE

    Retired








  • 16.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-18-2017 23:44
    Brian,

    Yamaha uprights are a good value for the money. My only caution would be to consider the top lid of the piano, believe it or not. Most of the taller, higher quality pianos (such as the U1) tend to have a long piano hinge bisecting the length of the lid, which permits liquid to seep down inside and nail the bass strings and dampers. Unless you have some magical way to keep drinks out of the practice rooms, there will be damage eventually, costing you parts and labor.

    This is not a matter of if, it's a question of when. Drinks are totally ubiquitous these days; seems that students have drinks permanently attached to one of their hands.

    Model P22 has a solid lid on top, offering adequate protection from spill damage to the parts inside. If you decide on the U1, invest in a top lid cover, either one that is commercially available, or have someone fashion a protective top out of a piece of plywood or thick MDF type of product. A groove would need to be routed to accommodate the hinge barrel which protrudes above the top, but it is doable. We had to do this for 2 pianos (U1 knock-offs) at SFSU, unfortunately belatedly after one suffered from a spill.

    And I agree with Martin Snow's previous comment that if a serious pianist or piano major has access to a grand, playing almost any upright will be a distant second choice. It's important to know who will likely be playing these pianos so that you can invest appropriately; perhaps the less expensive P22 would be adequate for use by non-piano majors.

    I have no experience with Boston or Essex pianos in practice room settings.

    Margie Williams
    pnotuner@pacbell.net

    "We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing." (Unknown)




  • 17.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-19-2017 09:51
    Budget undoubtedly comes into play, I really prefer to have the school let me know what funds are available  for new piano purchases at any one time , then I can make recommendations  as to what piano purchases will make the most impact to upgrade the inventory at that time, whether it's targeting the concert instruments, piano performance teaching studios, general  teaching studios, classrooms, or practice modules for grands,  or smaller studios, and some practice rooms for uprights.
    So just for the hell of it as the initial request was for uprights here are some contenders,  prices quoted are  close to MSRP so institutional discounts or bulk purchase discounts  have not been applied and you'll have to talk numbers with each company, I could tell you what they are likely to be, but that's part of your negotiation.
    * BOSTON 118............$11,600.
    * KAWAI K300..............$10,000.
    * STEINWAY 1098.........$32,300.
    *  STEINWAY K52...........$37,600.
    *  YAMAHA U1.................$11,000.
    *  YAMAHA P22..................$7,100.
    *  YAMAHA  NU1  DIGITAL $5800.

    ------------------------------
    Martin Snow
    Boston MA
    617-543-1030
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-19-2017 11:42

    Hi-

    We also have primarily Yamahas in upright practice rooms for non-piano major use and they have worked very well.  We also have very clear signs in each practice room explaining that drinks are not allowed, put nothing on top of the piano, and to please wash your hands after use.   Occasionally, someone ignores the policies but overall that works for us and the students are respectful.... knock on wood. 

    I know that our negotiated prices were significantly lower than those MSRP list from Martin, but each dealer is different and our last purchases were a couple years ago.  We have a few Boston UP-132's and a 126 in dorms that do have higher maintenance issues but it's not a fair comparison between our monitored practice rooms with some climate control and a public dorm lounge without.  I did notice the Boston's seem to sound pretty good though right out of the box and required less voicing up front, if that's important. 


    regards,

    Dennis Johnson
    St. Olaf College





  • 19.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-19-2017 12:40
    Martin -

    The situation I'm in is a little unusual in that the budget has not been set. Rather, the folks above me are asking essentially "What will it cost us to do this?"  and they will set the budget based on what I recommend - within reason of course.

    So that puts me in the position of trying to find the best piano for our purposes for the least amount of money - the best "bang for the buck" - but it also means that I don't have to worry too much about relatively small differences in price between brands and models.  By "best" I mean most durable, most stable, most easy to tune and maintain and most playable (touch, feel, tone etc.) I realize that it is unlikely that one piano will be the best at all of these things.

    To make it clear, these pianos will go into rooms with OK temperature control but no humidity control. The windows in the rooms can and will be opened and left that way for long periods. The primary users of the rooms will be non-pianists with occasional use by a pianist and a vocalist for a vocal coaching situation.

    Considering the list you provided above, I will rule out the Steinway uprights as too expensive. Putting aside the price differences and considering only criteria and purposes and conditions described above, if you had to choose between the Boston 118, the Kawai K300, the Yamaha U1 and the Yamaha P22, which would you choose?

    ------------------------------
    Brian Yankee
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-19-2017 13:05
    Brian-
    Your candor with regard to the conditions that pianos wool be subject to is appreciated.  How often would you expect these instruments to be tuned and regulated?

    ------------------------------
    David Skolnik
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-19-2017 13:59

    I expect that they will be tuned about every 4- 6 weeks during the school year and regulated once each year unless something is really off.



    ------------------------------
    Brian Yankee
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-19-2017 14:05
    I salute your "mystery institution" on the the high maintenance standards of even your practice room uprights. An example to be emulated!

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-19-2017 17:03
    Brian,

    In the 25 years I have been at Arizona State University we have purchased close to 100 uprights.  By far our most popular and dependable upright is the U1.  We have tried Charles Walter, Kawai (UST9, K3, K5), Yamaha P22, Baldwin 243, and Schimmel 120.  I love the Schimmel uprights, but they are a little pricey and only go in select studios.  We have never purchased Boston pianos due to their institutional reputation.  I have some personal experience with Boston and none of it has been favorable, but, to be honest, I have not worked on their newest models.  We still have U1 pianos in our main practice rooms from 1992 that are going strong.  The actions are precise and hold their regulation well, they tune up quickly, usually under 30 minutes, and their finishes are durable (we rub them out every few years and they look close to new). Yamaha also has, in my opinion, the best warranty/customer service in the industry.  We are able to purchase other brands and models for hundreds less per unit (P22, Kawai, Essex) or more expensive and more refined pianos (Schimmel), but I have yet to find an upright that offers the value (cost, musical quality, durability, ease of service) that the U1 has given us.

    For what it is worth, I think it is a mistake making purchasing decisions based on keeping a relationship with a Dealer/Manufacturer.  Your job is to procure the best instruments your budget and service capabilities can support.  If the Dealer/Manufacturer does not understand that, you don't have a relationship anyway.

    Good luck,

    Rick

    ------------------------------
    Rick Florence
    Manager, Keyboard Technology and Event Services
    Arizona State University, School of Music
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-19-2017 20:18
    Brian..... I  do  like diversity within an inventory as do students, so for example   if you were purchasing 20 units I would buy 14 U1 models, 4 P22 models and 2 Yamaha NU1 digital  pianos if every practice room has a power outlet.
    Margie's caution of the  long lid hinge on the U1 is something I had not considered, so signage in the practice rooms NO DRINKS  is a must, and make some up in Mandarin !! All best..........

    ------------------------------
    Martin Snow
    Boston MA
    617-543-1030
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-19-2017 22:22
    Although we have very Boston or Essex, and Steinways only in performance situations, I have cared for many Yamaha and Kawai models.
    The upper Yamaha models (U1), have held up well to institutional use and extreme humidity swings. The only downside is having to reinforce the music desk which inevitably cracks. Hopefully newer models have addressed this flaw.
    The Yamaha P22s have not performed well in our climate. In our public schools the actions need endless centerpin work, brass flange work, unstable tunings and cabinets that don't take a beating or repair well. Even in our climate controlled university the P22s were traded in.
    The Kawai K3-- also performs well under hard use and tough climate. Very stable.

    We do have very strict rules about food and drink; none outside the lobby or the green room.

    Best wishes, Nancy Salmon RPT
                        Frostburg State Univ.
                        LaVale, MD 21502





  • 26.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-20-2017 07:04
    In addition to NO DRINKS in practice rooms, there should be a sign that says, NO STANDING ON PIANOS. 

    I was mortified, once, when I saw a custodian stand on a brand new Bechstein to change a bulb. 





  • 27.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-20-2017 09:54
    As someone who got their certificate in piano technology at this particular prestigious school of music, I'm following this thread with interest.  I've also recently made a recommendation for a package of new pianos and all these questions were in my mind.  We ended up going for the Boston uprights.  Why? A few reasons - we were also buying some S&S grands, the money wasn't coming directly out of our departmental budget, I wasn't happy with the newer (Chinese-made) P22s we had bought a few years earlier, and even though the few Boston 118s we already had, had some tuning issues, we went with the 126 and understand that the more recent models are better in this regard.

    I've also found electricians standing on pianos.  For a while I kept on adding more and more ridiculous prohibitions to my list of no-no's posted in the practice rooms, but after a while it became laughable and I went back to a smaller list that hopefully addressed more general concerns.  I also think that a sign won't necessarily stop someone from using the piano as a ladder.

    ------------------------------
    Zeno Wood
    Brooklyn, NY
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Posted 04-20-2017 17:41
    Well, despite reluctance to chime in on particular products,

    I don't believe reading mention of the Mason & Hamlin Model 50. New England, eh? As a technician and a player, this is troubling and unacceptable. There is no more ignored and underrated vertical. 

    As a lifetime aural tuner, at present, 100% of the time, it is hard to understand the general assessment of Yamaha as anything but a consistent experience of ETD tuning without the ability to accurately assess the condition of the tuning immediately prior to tuning. Yamaha verticals, U1 and P22, are some of the most unstable for tuning in the industry; not to deny these tune quickly and easily. But how do you concatenate that with how quickly these go out of tune? Not a question for ETD users. There has been recent improvement with the U1, but the ease of tuning goes away with the improvement.

    The institutional Kawai is a challenge to tune, but far more stable than the Yamaha, if you can get it in tune. Not everybody can, it bears too tight at termination points. I would be reluctant to tune it with the right hand and/or time limits. But the Kawai proffers a more sophisticated sound in the institution than Yamaha. The feel is impeccable comparatively.

    Action parts in the Kawai are proven to be less suseptible to climate change than any other vertical I know of. The new 50's are probably also like this, but I don't see enough to say.

    Who's workin the M & H factory anyway? Anybody?


    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sloane
    Cincinnati OH
    513-257-8480
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-20-2017 18:20
    Benjamin, perhaps one reason is (for us University Techs at least) - due to our rigorous requirements to "go to bid" and typically we must choose the absolute lowest bid of those minimum of 3, it CAN BE nearly impossible to justify more expensive pianos in the same catergory (comparable according to their regulations). 
    Another reason perhaps is lack of awareness and perhaps their..umm.. lack of effective marketing?? Not sure why exactly but I have personally never serviced a newer Mason vertical. 
    Best, Kevin

    ------------------------------
    [Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
    [Staff Techician]
    [Texas Tech Univ]
    [Lubbock] [TX]
    [8067783962]
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: Advice needed re: piano purchase for school

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-21-2017 11:42
    I'm not sure I agree with the notion of trying to come up with "the best" models/manufacturer. In my upright inventory, Yamaha U-1 and P-22 have plurality status, but I also have Kawai UST-8, UST-9, K2, K3, K400; Petrof 115, 118, 122; a couple Perzinas, a Pearl River, a Mason & Hamlin 50. And Yamaha T118, T121, YUS5. 

    There are positives and negatives for all of them. For instance, I like the Petrofs in general, but they do tend to move pitch in the usual places (low tenor, above treble break) a little faster than some others. I like the Kawai ABS parts: no flange screw tightening needed, less movement/flexing of parts. OTOH, I do have some issues with catcher dowels getting loose in joints with the butt and the catcher (plastic to wood) and clicking - easy to fix but annoying (note this may be a dry climate phenom, single digit RH for extended periods). I definitely prefer UST9 to UST8.

    The Yamaha U1 music rack is quite annoying: not only does it tend to split, and screws get loose constantly, but it is nasty for placing xeroxed pages on (they bend and slip off). The split lid is a spill problem, and also in the newer ones they changed where it is split so that the back lid overhangs so much I need a longer tuning hammer tip - pretty annoying also. Plus tiny casters. Small annoyances, but significant. I find their tuning slightly less bad than other makes after a major RH change, but not all that much so.

    All of the instruments benefit enormously from adequate prep, meaning a day or two of concentrated work. Why do German makes (Schimmel, Bechstein, Sauter) have such a high reputation (and cost)? They are meticulously prepped in the factory. I was about to teach a class on upright prep at a convention, checking out travel on the upright that had been provided (a Bechstein), and a German technical rep looked in. He said "You won't find anything." He was right, Absolutely meticulous travel (I found one hammer to quibble with). That's one example. When all the factors are refined, you end up with a very refined instrument. You can do the same to your Yamaha, Kawai, Petrof, etc. and they will stand comparison with anything in terms of being an excellent musical instrument.

    My suggestion is not to put all your eggs in one basket. If the dealer is so anxious to sell you some Bostons, buy a couple, try them out. They will not be a disaster, and you will know more after you have them 2-5 years. Then you can make an educated decision on the next purchase. In general, IMO, you should be making minor purchases every few years, not a big purchase all at once. Pick a target maximum age of instrument, like 30 years, and replace instruments on that basis. Budget for it. That means total upright inventory replacement value divided by 30 for your annual replacement budget. Quite simple minded, exactly what most departments of higher education do with equipment from computers to automobiles. If you replace a bit at a time, you have a balanced inventory in terms of age and wear, and you can keep up with what is happening on the manufacturing scene over time.

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    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
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