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Historical Value Appraisal

  • 1.  Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-04-2016 20:28

    I've been asked by the university I work for - Brandeis University, and by the Grammy Museum people, to get a historical Value Appraisal on a piano we own.

    It is Leonard Bernstein's childhood upright, the one he started taking piano lessons on when he was 10 years old.  Lenny is a Mass. boy, and was on the faculty at Brandeis from 1951-55.  It seems that Bernstein's centennial is this next year, (born in 1918) and the Grammy Museum is putting together a worldwide tour of everything Leonard Bernstein and would like to include this upright.  It is a Brewster upright, circa 1917, in not very playable condition - jack posts unglued, ivory keytops coming off (yes, I know...the ivory would probably have to go???), a few hammer shanks broken.....the university hasn't wanted me to touch it in the 10+ years I've been there.  But they are now in discussions with the Grammy Museum, who really want this piano, as unplayable as it is, to tour the world.

    So where do I start finding someone to give us a historical value appraisal?  

    All suggestions appreciated!

    Debbie Cyr, RPT

    North Bennet Street School

    Brandeis University

    ------------------------------
    Debbie Cyr
    North Bennet Street School
    Brandeis University
    debbiecyr@me.com
    508-202-2862
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-04-2016 20:40

    If it were me; I'd probably start by contacting Sotheby's or Christie's auction houses. If that didn't work I'd probably call someone at the North Bennet Street School. Just sayin'.

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    Karl Roeder
    Pompano Beach FL



  • 3.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Posted 12-04-2016 21:34
    For appraisal, contact Dr. Albert Rice, arrice@rocketmail.com.

    Laurence Libin

    Sent from my iPad




  • 4.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-04-2016 21:49

    There really isn't any value, per se, of this piano. This is an old upright with many technical problems, which makes worth maybe a $100. Just because it was once played by Mr. Bernstein doesn't give it any value, at least not as a musical instrument. If it is "destroyed", it can't be replaced.

    Someone might be willing to pay money for it because it was once played by Mr. Bernstein, but even that value is subject to who is willing to pay for it. If you put a value of $1000, and someone wants to pay it, then is it worth that much? By the same token, if you put $100,000, but no one wants to pay that, is it worth that much?

    A local piano dealer had a Steinway M that was once owned by Doris Duke. He advertised it for several years at $65,000, because it was owned by her. In the end he sold it for $35,000, which was a more realistic value. But this was a piano that was completely restored.

    You need to find out why they want it appraised.

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789



  • 5.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Posted 12-05-2016 03:57
    The ivory is to 'go'? That's the part which Bernstein touched - no? How stupid is this form of legislation that nothing ivory is sacrosanct!! After all the elephant which gave its life to provide the ivory is Dead. Deceased. Defunct. Departed. Extinct. Perished. Gone. Inert.. &c.
    My S&S 'A' Hamburger was played by Benno Moiseiwicz, Benjamin Britten, Martin Isepp, Luiza Borac . . .  and many others and the original 1914 ivories are unblemished - can't really notice the join between head and tail without looking really hard. It's not just the piano in an historical context which is to be marvelled at - but also the keys that were played, touched, caressed . . .. Surely this upright is an Historical Artefact and, as such, is protected.     Michael   UK





  • 6.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-05-2016 07:41

    If I remember correctly (which often I don't), Barrett Jackson Auction sold John Lennon's Brambach piano for $15,000

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    608-518-2441
    928-899-7292



  • 7.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Posted 12-05-2016 07:54

    A piano is a piano. The PROOF would be the important factor. Now if you had a signed score, that would be personal connection.






  • 8.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-05-2016 08:59
    <If I remember correctly (which often I don't), Barrett Jackson Auction sold John Lennon's Brambach piano for $15,000
    Larry Messerly, RPT>

    Interesting. I service this piano, but I didn't know how much the owner paid for it. Supposedly he wrote "Imagine" on it, but I've heard that wasn't true. It had been rebuilt by somebody in New York, but with non standard parts (Baldwin). There were jiffy weights on every keystick for balance, and it didn't repeat well. I had to replace the hammers with Ronson's lightest hammers, and do a bunch of stuff to eliminate the leads. In the end, it really sounded nice with those hammers. Before that, it was just a nice looking, clangy-bangy Brambach that John used as a beater while he lived in New York.

    Paul McCloud
    San Diego




  • 9.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-05-2016 09:02

    There are many, many funky old uprights upon which John Lennon allegedly wrote "Imagine."

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483



  • 10.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-06-2016 12:03

    I am pretty sure that Lennon's Brambach piano was actually sold for $300,000.

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    Peter Stevenson RPT
    P.S. Piano Service
    Prince George BC
    250-562-5358
    ps@pspianoservice.com



  • 11.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-06-2016 12:22
    Check out this link:

    https://entertainment.ha.com/itm/musical-instruments/keyboards-and-pianos/imagine-owning-john-lennon-s-brambach-baby-grand-piano-john-lennon-and-yoko-ono-moved-to-new-york-in-1972-and-into-their-h/a/612-22483.s

    Price is not shown.

    Paul McCloud




  • 12.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-06-2016 12:25
    Here's an unconfirmed price on this page (scroll down) that matches your quote:

    http://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Forum/1/topic/008668/Number/0/site_id/1#import

    The owner lives in Rancho Santa Fe, so I have no doubt he could have paid this amount.

    Paul McCloud
    San Diego




  • 13.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-05-2016 09:11

    Hi Debbie,

    Ed Swenson may be able to offer advise:

    http://www.mozartpiano.com/

    Don

    ------------------------------
    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]



  • 14.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-05-2016 12:23

    Hi Debbie -

    Leave it to you to crack open a most exquisite can of assorted worms.  This is likely to be one of the more extended threads.   You've gotten some good leads with regard to expert appraisers, from Karl (Southeby's & Christies - but you should also contact Phillips 
    http://www.pianoauctions.co.uk/catalogue.php );  Laurence Liben (Albert Rice); Don MeKechnie (Ed Swensen), but, in each and every case, there is some sort of algorithm begin applied that attempts to align an absolute value with what that which the  market, even a highly niche one, would  assign.  If a wealthy Chinese (or other) collector was interested in this piano, what would its value become, and what would it have to be insured for?  Could he pay some thousands, or more, and yet only be able to insure it for, say, $5,000?  Does the willingness to pay, in and of itself, establish an inherent value?  

    I suspect this would not be a subject of conversation were it not for the Grammy Museum's involvement.  In other words, if the the piano were to be exhibited at Brandeis, as part of a local Bernstein celebration, would there be an issue, either with the value or, for that matter, the ivory?  And, again with regard to the ivory, would it make a difference if the tour were to remain  in this country?  I don't think that either you or the University should have to do all this leg-work.  What is the Museum willing to do, if they're so intent on having this piece?  

    I spoke with someone at another well known gallery.  He said that they now refuse to deal with any piece that has ivory, as, even when they attempt to adhere to the procedures required to establish legitimacy, they get no response from government.  I'm sorry, this whole thing is outrageous, not to mention insane.   If you were to remove the ivory, would you be required to destroy it?  Maybe you could make a temporary exhibit of the ivories themselves, while the piano was traveling, (with some temporarily whitened keys). Then reattach them when the piano returns.  As I said, it gets insane.

    ------------------------------
    David Skolnik
    Hastings-on-Hudson NY
    914-231-7565



  • 15.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-05-2016 18:09
    Thank you everyone!  I've compiled the info and will send it off to my boss.
    I'll keep y'all posted as to what happens, if anything.

    Debbie Cyr
    Registered Piano Technician
    508-202-2862 cell/text
    debbiecyr@me.com








  • 16.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-05-2016 20:37

    Just one quick comment: Any value based on the attachment to Lenny Bernstein is contingent on solid documentation that this was, indeed, his instrument. That is, written documentation, and a full paper trail. That's what the appraisers will want to see before coming to any figure.

    ------------------------------
    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda



  • 17.  RE: Historical Value Appraisal

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 12-06-2016 05:36
    Thanks Fred -
    The documentation is all there - that won't be an issue.

    Debbie Cyr
    Registered Piano Technician
    508-202-2862 cell/text
    debbiecyr@me.com