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Cracked bridge

  • 1.  Cracked bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-24-2017 12:39
      |   view attached
    I recently came across a piano that had a continuous crack running down the entire length of the treble bridge. The piano is a 1913 Kimball parlor grand, currently on display at a local museum. The owners want to get it fixed up, but have a limited budget. Any suggestions?

    Unfortunately I forgot to take a picture of the bridge, but here's a pic of the piano. 

    Thanks

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Lompoc CA
    805-315-8050
    benpianopro@comcast.net
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  • 2.  RE: Cracked bridge

    Posted 04-24-2017 12:42

    Why let the customer decide your price?
    Give them an estimate of what you would charge to fix it right with new bridge caps.






  • 3.  RE: Cracked bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-24-2017 18:28
    Believe me Chris, I don't let clients decide my price. However, I'm not set up right now to do a full bridge cap replacement. Is there a way to at least seal those cracks?

    Thanks

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    Benjamin Sanchez
    Lompoc CA
    805-315-8050
    benpianopro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Cracked bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-24-2017 18:46
    If there is still side bearing on the bridge pins, epoxy would probably be the best band-aid solution. Must be thin so it will completely fill the void and of course block the ends so it doesn't run out.

    Pwg


    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Cracked bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-24-2017 18:51

    Benjamin,

    I haven't been able to see a photo, but if it's what I'm imagining, a product we carry,

    Wood Rebuilder, will take care of it.  Here is a link: 

    https://www.alliedpiano.com/wood-rebuilder-information

    https://www.alliedpiano.com/wood-rebuilder/small-75-ml-kit

    Forgive me if this is too commercial, but this is quite inexpensive and will work.

    Ruth Zeiner, Allied Piano

    ruth@alliedpiano.com

    215-491-3045

     

     






  • 6.  RE: Cracked bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-24-2017 19:14
    Benjamen, without picture(s), no one can give you accurate advice.  Hold your questions until you have taken  pictures and shared therm here.  

    Will Truitt

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    William Truitt
    Bridgewater NH
    603-744-2277
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  • 7.  RE: Cracked bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-24-2017 19:20
    Ruth, 

    I use wood rebuilder all the time (and love it...though not the smell), but I am pretty sure it won't work in a case like this EXCEPT perhaps at the ends of the bridge as a blockage. It is a bit too thick, although I'm aware it can be mixed thin...I think it would make a mess, especially when inexperienced.

    I am assuming from Benjamin's description that it is a vertically laminated bridge and has failed all the way down one lamination.

    Hmmm


    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Cracked bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-24-2017 19:59
      |   view attached
    This photo was taken from an old upright that looks, at least to my eye, to have the same problem as the Kimball grand. The main differences are:

    In the grand both sets of bridge pins have cracks running along the pin lines.

    The cracks in the grand are about 1/32" to 1/16" deeper. As far as I can tell here, the cracks in the old upright are about 1/16" deep or so. 

    Unfortunately I won't be able to get a picture of the actual problem for a few more weeks, if not longer. 

    Thanks for the advice,

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Lompoc CA
    805-315-8050
    benpianopro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Cracked bridge

    Posted 04-25-2017 08:42
    In a piano of this vintage, the high treble bridge cap may have come unglued.
    Clear away the strings and bridge pins as needed to see the work site and position the broken cap.
    Good quality CA will give a quick repair in one visit.
    Epoxy will give you working time to position the pieces, but will need curing time.

    ------------------------------
    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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  • 10.  RE: Cracked bridge

    Posted 04-25-2017 13:01
    Hi Benjamin,
    Is it a tight budget? Or is it "not set up for recapping"?
    If they gave you a tight budget to work with, and you are not restringing(leaving plate in), then epoxy is kind of the only choice. Doing a good and clean job requires some practice. Along with choosing the right consistency of epoxy. Too thin, won't fill the gap, read the label. Too thick can get sloppy.
    If its "not being set up for recapping" could you sub that part of the rebuild out? 
    I'm ok with using epoxy for loose bridge pins, but when it comes to cracks following along a series of pins, then its recapping in my book.
    In order to make that happen while working with a budget is salesmanship. Afterall, how on the one hand do you tell the customer recapping is the right thing to do, but because I'm not set up in my shop for it, lets do an epoxy repair? BTW, I've seen some really awful looking epoxy repairs, gunk all over the place. Customers get upset a little when its shown to them, and they usually want it fixed. Which kind leads to promoting having it done right the first time.

    Regards


    Chernobieff Piano and Harpsichord Mfg.

    Chris Chernobieff 
    Associate Member of the Piano Technicians Guild
    Facebook:  https://www.facebook.com/ChernobieffPianoandHarpsichordMFG/
    email: chrisppff@gmail.com
    phone: 865-986-7720




    On Tue, Apr 25, 2017 at 8:41 AM, Ed Sutton via Piano Technicians Guild






  • 11.  RE: Cracked bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-25-2017 14:31
    Hi Chris, 
    Its actually a bit of both. The owners want that bridge fixed, because it's something that is a visible problem. I'm not doing a rebuild, was just called to tune it. Funny, they have money to have it tuned twice a year, but not to get the action regulated or any other needed work. I guess it's a matter of priorities. I can try to persuade them to have the bridges recapped, but have a feeling that they will want the cheaper option. 

    If it comes to epoxy repair, I will definitely practice first. 

    Now that I think about it, I should probably try to persuade them to have it rebuilt...

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Lompoc CA
    805-315-8050
    benpianopro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: Cracked bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-25-2017 07:20

    Got it, thanks Peter, the crack is different than what I was thinking.

    CA to the rescue!  I also use a lot of it (CA).  Thanks, Ruth






  • 13.  RE: Cracked bridge

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 04-25-2017 22:56
    Benjamin,

    Although I agree in principle with Chris, we all know that people will spend if they WANT to, but they will not spend (even if they have it) if they DON'T WANT to. Sounds like a "Duhhhh" but it's true.

    So, the way I often handle this sort of thing Is to give options:

    Option 1 (surgery):  Rebuild, recap, fully restore...$xx,xxx.xx.  Fix it once, fix it right

    Option 2 (non-surgical/interventional): Epoxy in place (or CA glue depending on how bad it is). This will "stop it in it's tracks" but is, in essence, a big band-aid. "It is not THE correct procedure, rather A PROCEDURE", which I am not recommending, but I will do it if you tell me that is what you want me to do"...$xxx.xx

    Option 3 (rhetorical): Get a different piano

    If they're thinking, they will then ask: "If we do option 2 now, can we still do option 1 later?"

    You say: "Wwwelllllll...yessss...maybe, but it will definitely make it more complicated and ultimately more costly...so yes...but...(which is precisely why I'm not recommending it). Option 2 is for those who absolutely CANNOT afford going all the way with it, AND don't mind that it will look a little ugly...but...I will do it if that's the only way to keep it going for you".

    Then shut up. 

    Catch my drift?

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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