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Alternate lubricants

  • 1.  Alternate lubricants

    Posted 01-16-2017 11:47
    Hi!

    I live and work in Romania and wanted to buy some Protek CLP and Protek MPL from Germany.. As they are flammable products, they can not ship them to me..:(

    They suggested Renolan instead of the CLP, which is not flammable. Anyone had any experience with it?

    What about the Protek MPL wax? I wanted to buy that to lubricate repetition spring slots on the whippens... Do you know a good alternate lubricant for that, which is not flammable?

    Thanks!!! I'd highly appreciate your answer(s) :)

    Best to you all!

    Ovi

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    Ovidiu Turcu
    Bucharest
    +40724414692
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  • 2.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Posted 01-16-2017 18:22
      |   view attached
    PTGers will tell you it creeps. At Oberlin in the eighties we lubed balance and front rail pins with liquid silicone all the time. 

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    Benjamin Sloane
    Cincinnati OH
    513-257-8480
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  • 3.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-16-2017 18:33
    Yes, silicone in a can is good. However, make sure it is not the water-based type. Very easy to find in auto parts stores, etc. But just make sure it is the regular "use caution--product flammable" type as water-based ones have become fairly common.

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 4.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Posted 01-16-2017 18:58
    Did not recommend a non-flammable alternative. Just something you still could buy possibly in Romania. I read the label. Do Romanians still drive cars?

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    Benjamin Sloane
    Cincinnati OH
    513-257-8480
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  • 5.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Posted 01-17-2017 06:40
    Romanians MAKE cars -   Michael   UK





  • 6.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Posted 01-16-2017 19:18
    Heat petroleum jelly and mix in Teflon powder, let cool. A microwave, a few seconds at a time will soften it sufficiently.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
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  • 7.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-16-2017 22:12
    Hello, Ovi

    For the repetition spring slots in wippens, I first scrape out as much as I can of the greasy junk someone else may have put in there, and then I lubricate by using a sharp soft pencil (6B) to rub the slot. You can see where the spring was touching. I try to get that place smooth if the spring has made a dent there. I also clean the spring, to get any grease from old lubricant off of it. Sometimes if it is kinked I change the curve of it.

    Over time a "wet" greasy lubricant tends to get gummy. The graphite from a soft pencil won't do that.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 8.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Posted 01-17-2017 06:42
    Yes, Ovi - Susan's reply is very much better than mine!   Michael  UK






  • 9.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Posted 01-17-2017 06:38
    A touch of vaseline - applied with a toothpick? in the spring grooves. If you have centre-pin stiffness you could try a soldering iron to heat and expand the pins - might work!
    Larivedere   Michael  UK





  • 10.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-17-2017 09:40
    Yes Susan's advice is excellent. Also the vaseline warmed & mixed with teflon is fantastic for many applications. Also good to have some type of silicone for key pins, etc. But Michael also brings up an important point--sometimes a bit of heat can be used to free up sticking center pins (and the heated broach method is can be great for key bushings. Should be easy to ship that set-up if you don't already have it.) And I agree but I would just say use heat with caution on center pins. Even better for center pins would be using rubbing alcohol with some water added makes a good re-sizing solution. That should be available also. (Depending on the percentage of alcohol to water you have, try to mix it about 50/50 or even 70/30 water to alcohol.) If you are interested we could explain the technique on this--which is really important.

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 11.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 01-17-2017 17:14
    I like what heat does to the bushings -- makes them denser and more stable -- but if you use heat with the parts assembled, you have to consider what it does to the wood of the "birdseye", which can char. Hot metal firmly pressed into wood. Keeping the hole of the birdseye intact and small enough so that the center pin can't creep out is critically important, and it's not that easy to fix if the wood is enlarged, charred, egged out with wear, and so on.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 12.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Posted 01-18-2017 06:28
    Using heat to ease a centre pin can be made easier by slightly driving the pin out, applying the heat, then pushing it back in place. This gets rid of the possibility of scorching the birds' eye. I use heat in many areas of 'easement'(?) of screws in the piano. Particularly the set-off screws in upright actions which are otherwise prone to breakage in the set-off rail.    Michael  UK





  • 13.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Posted 01-17-2017 09:54

    Hi Ovi,

    It`s very strange that supplies from Germany can not send Protek to Romania which is EU country. The post can use ground transportation for that reason.

    If you order it from USA,  yes they whoud not send it by plane.

    (I used to order protek to Ukraine there was no problem at all).

    I have even experimented for the sake of interest, Protek is not flammable, its dialuted Teflon but defenately not flammable.

    Here is the company to order from:


    https://www.pianoteile.com/unsecure/default.aspx

      Ballistol Oil is used as an additional lubricant in my kit.



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    Ivan Jochner
    Senior Piano Technician
    Vinnitsa
    +380980646308
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  • 14.  RE: Alternate lubricants

    Posted 01-18-2017 04:37
    Hi!

    Thanks so much for the great tips!!

    Baumgartel says they cannot ship to Romania, but they can ship to Hungary... I don't know why is there a difference... both are EU countries..

    Yes, silicone can be available here, there are a lot of car parts / paints stores here that have a lot of specialized stuff. Thanks!! The graphite method for repetition springs also seems great! Rubbing alcohol (I also have isopropyl alcohol) can be found here anywhere.

    Yes.. we do drive cars... although I am not one of them, many Romanians are very obsessed by BMW, Mercedes and Audi. And yes... SUVs.. I just love my old Renault :) and save money for music.

    I've seen on a Romanian page that someone used sewing machine oil to lubricate action parts in an upright piano. What do you think? It is a "fine mechanics" oil, with no acids nor resin, felt / leather friendly (when you sew a garment, if it drops on it it won't affect it).

    Thank you guys again!!

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    Ovidiu Turcu
    Bucharest
    +40724414692
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