Pianotech

I have a client with one string of a wound bichord missing. I've always had the broken string to duplicate but without it I'm not sure how to figure out the other specs. 

Any help would be useful.

many thanks

------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Hi Ruben:
You'll need a micrometer to measure the overall diameter of the other string, plus the diameter of the core. You'll have to measure the length of the string from the agraffe to the hitch pin, and the length of the speaking section from agraffe to the bridge pin. Removing the damper head will make it easier to do this. It is possible that the string winder has the measurements for the string if you have the Make and Model, but even that might not be correct.
A Universal string is another option if it's not a high-end piano. I know, they often don't sound good or match, but sometimes they do a pretty good job. Even if they don't like it, and you still have to have a custom string wound, it will at least get it up and running while you wait.
Paul McCloud


Original Message------

I have a client with one string of a wound bichord missing. I've always had the broken string to duplicate but without it I'm not sure how to figure out the other specs. 

Any help would be useful.

many thanks

------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Hi Paul, thanks for the info.

That much I can do. What I'm trying to figure out for the missing string is the position and length of the winding, distance between winding and hitch pin as well as agraffe. I'm assuming the length of the winding will be the same as that of the other string, however it's placement in relation to the lengthwise center point of the core between termination points will be offset relative to the bridge and agraffe.

For example, if I copy the specs of the other string, it's counterpart replacement's winding will contact the bridge pins. I could peel back the winding to solve this, but I'm thinking that will cause a mismatch and sound terrible for numerous reasons.

I hope that's a clear enough description of what I'm after. I definitely need to study scale design.


------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:41
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Ruben:
You'll need a micrometer to measure the overall diameter of the other string, plus the diameter of the core. You'll have to measure the length of the string from the agraffe to the hitch pin, and the length of the speaking section from agraffe to the bridge pin. Removing the damper head will make it easier to do this. It is possible that the string winder has the measurements for the string if you have the Make and Model, but even that might not be correct.
A Universal string is another option if it's not a high-end piano. I know, they often don't sound good or match, but sometimes they do a pretty good job. Even if they don't like it, and you still have to have a custom string wound, it will at least get it up and running while you wait.
Paul McCloud

Yes, of course, you can't duplicate the specs of the other string. The string company will know from the dimensions how much wrap to make so that it won't contact the agraffe or bridge pin. If you like, you could also include the length of the wrapped section. They will know how much the string will stretch so that as you tighten it, the end of the wrap will not touch the agraffe before it gets to pitch. Give Mapes a call and talk to them about what you have, and they'll be glad to walk you through it. 423 543-3700. Nice people over there. You don't have to be a scale expert.
Paul


Original Message------

Hi Paul, thanks for the info.

That much I can do. What I'm trying to figure out for the missing string is the position and length of the winding, distance between winding and hitch pin as well as agraffe. I'm assuming the length of the winding will be the same as that of the other string, however it's placement in relation to the lengthwise center point of the core between termination points will be offset relative to the bridge and agraffe.

For example, if I copy the specs of the other string, it's counterpart replacement's winding will contact the bridge pins. I could peel back the winding to solve this, but I'm thinking that will cause a mismatch and sound terrible for numerous reasons.

I hope that's a clear enough description of what I'm after. I definitely need to study scale design.


------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

You will find a lot if information about this on James Arledge's web site.
To get a perfect match, you will do best to replace both strings of the bichord.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:58
From: Ruben Jackson
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Paul, thanks for the info.

That much I can do. What I'm trying to figure out for the missing string is the position and length of the winding, distance between winding and hitch pin as well as agraffe. I'm assuming the length of the winding will be the same as that of the other string, however it's placement in relation to the lengthwise center point of the core between termination points will be offset relative to the bridge and agraffe.

For example, if I copy the specs of the other string, it's counterpart replacement's winding will contact the bridge pins. I could peel back the winding to solve this, but I'm thinking that will cause a mismatch and sound terrible for numerous reasons.

I hope that's a clear enough description of what I'm after. I definitely need to study scale design.


------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:41
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Ruben:
You'll need a micrometer to measure the overall diameter of the other string, plus the diameter of the core. You'll have to measure the length of the string from the agraffe to the hitch pin, and the length of the speaking section from agraffe to the bridge pin. Removing the damper head will make it easier to do this. It is possible that the string winder has the measurements for the string if you have the Make and Model, but even that might not be correct.
A Universal string is another option if it's not a high-end piano. I know, they often don't sound good or match, but sometimes they do a pretty good job. Even if they don't like it, and you still have to have a custom string wound, it will at least get it up and running while you wait.
Paul McCloud

If you have brand, model, and age, Mapes quite often has the scale already. Just need to give them the string numbers. IOW replace both!

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 12:37
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

You will find a lot if information about this on James Arledge's web site.
To get a perfect match, you will do best to replace both strings of the bichord.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:58
From: Ruben Jackson
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Paul, thanks for the info.

That much I can do. What I'm trying to figure out for the missing string is the position and length of the winding, distance between winding and hitch pin as well as agraffe. I'm assuming the length of the winding will be the same as that of the other string, however it's placement in relation to the lengthwise center point of the core between termination points will be offset relative to the bridge and agraffe.

For example, if I copy the specs of the other string, it's counterpart replacement's winding will contact the bridge pins. I could peel back the winding to solve this, but I'm thinking that will cause a mismatch and sound terrible for numerous reasons.

I hope that's a clear enough description of what I'm after. I definitely need to study scale design.


------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:41
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Ruben:
You'll need a micrometer to measure the overall diameter of the other string, plus the diameter of the core. You'll have to measure the length of the string from the agraffe to the hitch pin, and the length of the speaking section from agraffe to the bridge pin. Removing the damper head will make it easier to do this. It is possible that the string winder has the measurements for the string if you have the Make and Model, but even that might not be correct.
A Universal string is another option if it's not a high-end piano. I know, they often don't sound good or match, but sometimes they do a pretty good job. Even if they don't like it, and you still have to have a custom string wound, it will at least get it up and running while you wait.
Paul McCloud

------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 14:12
From: Larry Messerly
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

If you have brand, model, and age, Mapes quite often has the scale already. Just need to give them the string numbers. IOW replace both!

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 12:37
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

You will find a lot if information about this on James Arledge's web site.
To get a perfect match, you will do best to replace both strings of the bichord.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:58
From: Ruben Jackson
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Paul, thanks for the info.

That much I can do. What I'm trying to figure out for the missing string is the position and length of the winding, distance between winding and hitch pin as well as agraffe. I'm assuming the length of the winding will be the same as that of the other string, however it's placement in relation to the lengthwise center point of the core between termination points will be offset relative to the bridge and agraffe.

For example, if I copy the specs of the other string, it's counterpart replacement's winding will contact the bridge pins. I could peel back the winding to solve this, but I'm thinking that will cause a mismatch and sound terrible for numerous reasons.

I hope that's a clear enough description of what I'm after. I definitely need to study scale design.


------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:41
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Ruben:
You'll need a micrometer to measure the overall diameter of the other string, plus the diameter of the core. You'll have to measure the length of the string from the agraffe to the hitch pin, and the length of the speaking section from agraffe to the bridge pin. Removing the damper head will make it easier to do this. It is possible that the string winder has the measurements for the string if you have the Make and Model, but even that might not be correct.
A Universal string is another option if it's not a high-end piano. I know, they often don't sound good or match, but sometimes they do a pretty good job. Even if they don't like it, and you still have to have a custom string wound, it will at least get it up and running while you wait.
Paul McCloud

A Bosendorfer, eh? IF the bass strings currently on that piano were made by Bosendorfer--and have any life left in them--then strings made by most anyone else will not match the sound of the other notes with wound strings. (Ask me how I know!)

I'm jus' sayin',

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 16:29
From: Ruben Jackson
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

I intend to replace both, of course. The problem is that I don't have dimensions for the missing side of the bichord. This is a bosendorfer ca 1880s, I will look again for a s/n.

------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 14:12
From: Larry Messerly
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

If you have brand, model, and age, Mapes quite often has the scale already. Just need to give them the string numbers. IOW replace both!

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 12:37
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

You will find a lot if information about this on James Arledge's web site.
To get a perfect match, you will do best to replace both strings of the bichord.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:58
From: Ruben Jackson
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Paul, thanks for the info.

That much I can do. What I'm trying to figure out for the missing string is the position and length of the winding, distance between winding and hitch pin as well as agraffe. I'm assuming the length of the winding will be the same as that of the other string, however it's placement in relation to the lengthwise center point of the core between termination points will be offset relative to the bridge and agraffe.

For example, if I copy the specs of the other string, it's counterpart replacement's winding will contact the bridge pins. I could peel back the winding to solve this, but I'm thinking that will cause a mismatch and sound terrible for numerous reasons.

I hope that's a clear enough description of what I'm after. I definitely need to study scale design.


------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:41
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Ruben:
You'll need a micrometer to measure the overall diameter of the other string, plus the diameter of the core. You'll have to measure the length of the string from the agraffe to the hitch pin, and the length of the speaking section from agraffe to the bridge pin. Removing the damper head will make it easier to do this. It is possible that the string winder has the measurements for the string if you have the Make and Model, but even that might not be correct.
A Universal string is another option if it's not a high-end piano. I know, they often don't sound good or match, but sometimes they do a pretty good job. Even if they don't like it, and you still have to have a custom string wound, it will at least get it up and running while you wait.
Paul McCloud

You will want to measure them, even if they have the Bosey scale. I once replaced a set on an older Imperial. The strings on it were almost touching the bridge pins, so we ordered a new set from (name withheld). The windings ended up with the same exact position! I had to make a rubbing, and they redid them for nothing (mucho thanks). They were surprised because they had been making lots of sets, and nobody complained. Weird.
Paul McCloud
San Diego



I'm jus' sayin',

Alan >

Original Message------

A Bosendorfer, eh? IF the bass strings currently on that piano were made by Bosendorfer--and have any life left in them--then strings made by most anyone else will not match the sound of the other notes with wound strings. (Ask me how I know!)

I'm jus' sayin',

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

It's been restrung.

------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 17:15
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

A Bosendorfer, eh? IF the bass strings currently on that piano were made by Bosendorfer--and have any life left in them--then strings made by most anyone else will not match the sound of the other notes with wound strings. (Ask me how I know!)

I'm jus' sayin',

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 16:29
From: Ruben Jackson
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

I intend to replace both, of course. The problem is that I don't have dimensions for the missing side of the bichord. This is a bosendorfer ca 1880s, I will look again for a s/n.

------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 14:12
From: Larry Messerly
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

If you have brand, model, and age, Mapes quite often has the scale already. Just need to give them the string numbers. IOW replace both!

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 12:37
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

You will find a lot if information about this on James Arledge's web site.
To get a perfect match, you will do best to replace both strings of the bichord.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:58
From: Ruben Jackson
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Paul, thanks for the info.

That much I can do. What I'm trying to figure out for the missing string is the position and length of the winding, distance between winding and hitch pin as well as agraffe. I'm assuming the length of the winding will be the same as that of the other string, however it's placement in relation to the lengthwise center point of the core between termination points will be offset relative to the bridge and agraffe.

For example, if I copy the specs of the other string, it's counterpart replacement's winding will contact the bridge pins. I could peel back the winding to solve this, but I'm thinking that will cause a mismatch and sound terrible for numerous reasons.

I hope that's a clear enough description of what I'm after. I definitely need to study scale design.


------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:41
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Ruben:
You'll need a micrometer to measure the overall diameter of the other string, plus the diameter of the core. You'll have to measure the length of the string from the agraffe to the hitch pin, and the length of the speaking section from agraffe to the bridge pin. Removing the damper head will make it easier to do this. It is possible that the string winder has the measurements for the string if you have the Make and Model, but even that might not be correct.
A Universal string is another option if it's not a high-end piano. I know, they often don't sound good or match, but sometimes they do a pretty good job. Even if they don't like it, and you still have to have a custom string wound, it will at least get it up and running while you wait.
Paul McCloud

Original Message------

A Bosendorfer, eh? IF the bass strings currently on that piano were made by Bosendorfer--and have any life left in them--then strings made by most anyone else will not match the sound of the other notes with wound strings. (Ask me how I know!)

I'm jus' sayin',

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

I may be commenting on this late, but, in restringing a Bosendorfer Imperial, Mapes made me a set that were amazing sounding.  Make sure you ask them to do a "German wrap" on the string/strings.  I've also used these (German wraped) bass strings on some 'special' rebuilds I've done  on Yamaha, as well as Steinway, when the customer was particularly interested in a very clean, crisp, clear sound.  Hope you'll all excuse me if this has already been answered!

------------------------------
Brian De Tar
Portland OR
503-201-5482
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-25-2017 06:56
From: Michael Gamble
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Gregor Heller is best at these Vienese covered strings. He made a wonderful set for my S&S 1914 Hamburger.  And for an 1856 Emerich Betsy, Wien, fortepiano total re-string.    Michael   UK

Thanks Ed. I'll take a look.

------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 12:37
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

You will find a lot if information about this on James Arledge's web site.
To get a perfect match, you will do best to replace both strings of the bichord.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:58
From: Ruben Jackson
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Paul, thanks for the info.

That much I can do. What I'm trying to figure out for the missing string is the position and length of the winding, distance between winding and hitch pin as well as agraffe. I'm assuming the length of the winding will be the same as that of the other string, however it's placement in relation to the lengthwise center point of the core between termination points will be offset relative to the bridge and agraffe.

For example, if I copy the specs of the other string, it's counterpart replacement's winding will contact the bridge pins. I could peel back the winding to solve this, but I'm thinking that will cause a mismatch and sound terrible for numerous reasons.

I hope that's a clear enough description of what I'm after. I definitely need to study scale design.


------------------------------
Ruben Jackson
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 11:41
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

Hi Ruben:
You'll need a micrometer to measure the overall diameter of the other string, plus the diameter of the core. You'll have to measure the length of the string from the agraffe to the hitch pin, and the length of the speaking section from agraffe to the bridge pin. Removing the damper head will make it easier to do this. It is possible that the string winder has the measurements for the string if you have the Make and Model, but even that might not be correct.
A Universal string is another option if it's not a high-end piano. I know, they often don't sound good or match, but sometimes they do a pretty good job. Even if they don't like it, and you still have to have a custom string wound, it will at least get it up and running while you wait.
Paul McCloud

To determine the winding on a replacement a few measurements are needed. A micrometer reading of the core and wrap of its mate or the two adjacent strings for a single string. Measure hitch pin to winding and the length of the winding. For a single, place a straightedge across the adjacent ends. To have the string made, subtract 3 mm from h/p to winding and 6 mm from the length of winding measurements; this will compensate for stretching.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page

What I do in this situation is I measure from the hitch pin to where I want the winding to stop. This should match the adjacent string. (By match I do not mean that the distance from hitch pin to winding should be the same, but that the winding should stop immediately beside where the adjacent string's winding ends). Then I measure the length of wrap from the adjacent string. That should give you all the information that you need.

By the way, in many situations with pianos with old strings I prefer to only replace one string in a bichord, as that leaves a less jarring tonal change than if I replaced both.

------------------------------
Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianoservice.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-24-2017 16:45
From: Jon Page
Subject: Determining dimensions of missing wound bichord

To determine the winding on a replacement a few measurements are needed. A micrometer reading of the core and wrap of its mate or the two adjacent strings for a single string. Measure hitch pin to winding and the length of the winding. For a single, place a straightedge across the adjacent ends. To have the string made, subtract 3 mm from h/p to winding and 6 mm from the length of winding measurements; this will compensate for stretching.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page