Pianotech

I am preparing to hang new, pre-hung hammers, shanks, and  flanges on Yamaha grands and steinway grand pianos. I plan to mark the existing hammer string marks on painters tape glued to my regulating jig and line the new hammers to those marks. But I would like your input about an accurate alignment of the the bass section. Thank you from an old tuner/technician still seeking new ideas.

------------------------------
Thomas Black
Decatur AL
256-350-9315
------------------------------

I think your strategy will work in all sections.  When I'm aligning hammers, I always do the final refining in the piano.  The flange spacing tools from Pianotek (FS-4 and FS-5) are really helpful, but a certain amount of removing and inserting the action is often necessary.  With the action in the piano, I can evaluate the operation of the shift function as well, and do whatever fine tuning is necessary.

------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 08:32
From: Thomas Black
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

I am preparing to hang new, pre-hung hammers, shanks, and  flanges on Yamaha grands and steinway grand pianos. I plan to mark the existing hammer string marks on painters tape glued to my regulating jig and line the new hammers to those marks. But I would like your input about an accurate alignment of the the bass section. Thank you from an old tuner/technician still seeking new ideas.

------------------------------
Thomas Black
Decatur AL
256-350-9315
------------------------------

I agree with Wim, but you can get fairly close in the shop. Remove every other hammer/shank assembly, then mount the new ones. Then remove the remainders and finish up.
David Weiss

Sent from my iPhone


Original Message------

I think your strategy will work in all sections.  When I'm aligning hammers, I always do the final refining in the piano.  The flange spacing tools from Pianotek (FS-4 and FS-5) are really helpful, but a certain amount of removing and inserting the action is often necessary.  With the action in the piano, I can evaluate the operation of the shift function as well, and do whatever fine tuning is necessary.

------------------------------
Floyd Gadd
Regina SK
306-721-9699
------------------------------

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 08:32
From: Thomas Black
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

I am preparing to hang new, pre-hung hammers, shanks, and  flanges on Yamaha grands and steinway grand pianos. I plan to mark the existing hammer string marks on painters tape glued to my regulating jig and line the new hammers to those marks. But I would like your input about an accurate alignment of the the bass section. Thank you from an old tuner/technician still seeking new ideas.

------------------------------
Thomas Black
Decatur AL
256-350-9315
------------------------------

Willem,
     Thank all of you for your reply. I appreciate you allowing me to double check my procedures. I especially thank my friend Willem who has faithfully served the PTG, the Birmingham chapter and helped several of us to become RPT's. 

------------------------------
Thomas Black
Decatur AL
256-350-9315
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 12:36
From: Willem Blees
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Tommy
I've found that no matter how hard you try, or what "gimmicks" you use, the only and best way to align hammers is with the action in the piano.

Step:
1. Make sure all the hammers travel correctly. Don't just pull up two or three hammers to see if they move parallel, but one at a time and check the distance between the hammer being lifted and the hammer to the right and left. The space should be the same on both sides.
2. With the action in the piano, align each hammer to the string. Bring the hammer up to the string and have it centered directly under the string. Then shift the action to make sure the left string does not ring. I do this by putting a felt mute on the two right strings. If the left string rings, move the hammer over. I make a mark on the key on the side the hammer needs to move over. (I do one section at a time), I  pull the action, loosen the screw and move the whole flange over. Repeat as necessary.
3. Pull the action and align the wippens under the knuckle.

Good luck

Wim

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 08:32
From: Thomas Black
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

I am preparing to hang new, pre-hung hammers, shanks, and  flanges on Yamaha grands and steinway grand pianos. I plan to mark the existing hammer string marks on painters tape glued to my regulating jig and line the new hammers to those marks. But I would like your input about an accurate alignment of the the bass section. Thank you from an old tuner/technician still seeking new ideas.

------------------------------
Thomas Black
Decatur AL
256-350-9315
------------------------------

Look at the string grooves on the old hammers before removing them from the rail.  If they're well centered they'll serve as a good rough guide for installing the new ones.  Remove every other one and center the new flanges and hammers between the old ones, then remove the remaining originals and do the same.  Travel the flanges and burn the shanks to square up everything.  Do the final hammer spacing to the strings, then space or paper any wippens that require it.

------------------------------
Kent Burnside, RPT
Franklin TN
615.430.0653
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 08:32
From: Thomas Black
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

I am preparing to hang new, pre-hung hammers, shanks, and  flanges on Yamaha grands and steinway grand pianos. I plan to mark the existing hammer string marks on painters tape glued to my regulating jig and line the new hammers to those marks. But I would like your input about an accurate alignment of the the bass section. Thank you from an old tuner/technician still seeking new ideas.

------------------------------
Thomas Black
Decatur AL
256-350-9315
------------------------------

Thomas,

You wrote: " I would like your input about an accurate alignment of the the bass section." Are you asking what the alignment of the bass hammers to the strings should be?

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 08:32
From: Thomas Black
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

I am preparing to hang new, pre-hung hammers, shanks, and  flanges on Yamaha grands and steinway grand pianos. I plan to mark the existing hammer string marks on painters tape glued to my regulating jig and line the new hammers to those marks. But I would like your input about an accurate alignment of the the bass section. Thank you from an old tuner/technician still seeking new ideas.

------------------------------
Thomas Black
Decatur AL
256-350-9315
------------------------------

Mr. Black,
Please don't burn the shanks after traveling. Instead try casting the hammers. This is done by heating the shank until it becomes flexible and then 'casting' the hammer to the right or left as appropriate. Future servicers of the instrument will be grateful for the lack of charred wood.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-10-2017 08:15
From: Alan Eder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Thomas,

You wrote: " I would like your input about an accurate alignment of the the bass section." Are you asking what the alignment of the bass hammers to the strings should be?

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 08:32
From: Thomas Black
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

I am preparing to hang new, pre-hung hammers, shanks, and  flanges on Yamaha grands and steinway grand pianos. I plan to mark the existing hammer string marks on painters tape glued to my regulating jig and line the new hammers to those marks. But I would like your input about an accurate alignment of the the bass section. Thank you from an old tuner/technician still seeking new ideas.

------------------------------
Thomas Black
Decatur AL
256-350-9315
------------------------------

Thanks, Karl.  This is what I meant by "burning" (an old term we should probably stop using).  Glad to hear it called by a better name.

------------------------------
Kent Burnside, RPT
Franklin TN
615.430.0653
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-10-2017 09:07
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,
Please don't burn the shanks after traveling. Instead try casting the hammers. This is done by heating the shank until it becomes flexible and then 'casting' the hammer to the right or left as appropriate. Future servicers of the instrument will be grateful for the lack of charred wood.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-10-2017 08:15
From: Alan Eder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Thomas,

You wrote: " I would like your input about an accurate alignment of the the bass section." Are you asking what the alignment of the bass hammers to the strings should be?

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 08:32
From: Thomas Black
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

I am preparing to hang new, pre-hung hammers, shanks, and  flanges on Yamaha grands and steinway grand pianos. I plan to mark the existing hammer string marks on painters tape glued to my regulating jig and line the new hammers to those marks. But I would like your input about an accurate alignment of the the bass section. Thank you from an old tuner/technician still seeking new ideas.

------------------------------
Thomas Black
Decatur AL
256-350-9315
------------------------------

Why would painter's tape need gluing to anything?
Could you attach a photo of the regulation jig? I never heard of such a thing...

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-09-2017 08:32
From: Thomas Black
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

I am preparing to hang new, pre-hung hammers, shanks, and  flanges on Yamaha grands and steinway grand pianos. I plan to mark the existing hammer string marks on painters tape glued to my regulating jig and line the new hammers to those marks. But I would like your input about an accurate alignment of the the bass section. Thank you from an old tuner/technician still seeking new ideas.

------------------------------
Thomas Black
Decatur AL
256-350-9315
------------------------------

Missed this one on the first upload. Sorry.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:49
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:58
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Missed this one on the first upload. Sorry.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:49
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Karl,
     Thank you for sharing the Brooks Hammer Installation Jig. I was planning on using my Jaras Regulation jig with the provided rail which would require marking and hanging the hammers in each section. Or install a rail the full length of the action which would require only one set up. The latter would almost replicate your jig. I think you've help me to decide which way is best. Thank you.  I found a similar 8' aluminum rail at Lowe's that can be adapted for this operation. 
     My buddy sets up just as you have indicated but adds a secure stop block. After marking the strings on the rail he slides the action towards the treble the thickness of a key top and then aligns the string marks to the side of the hammers which he says aligns the complete action more closely. 
     I do realize "fine tuning" the hammers must be accomplished with the action in the piano. I'm trying to eliminate as much work as possible. 


------------------------------
Thomas Black
Decatur AL
256-350-9315
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 16:04
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:58
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Missed this one on the first upload. Sorry.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:49
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Thanks Karl,

Somehow I had tried to visualize something like the effect of carbon paper when spacing and voicing hammers at the piano. I didn't see you were manually marking string grooves.

As a teenager all I was allowed to do was bench regulate when the piano was not in the shop. The regulation table and affixed letoff jig designed, very well I might add, to level keys and set key dip, but not space prehung hammers, seemed ingenious, but in light of bedding the keyframe, when the piano was in the shop, it seemed less so.

Whenever possible I work at the piano with the action on the keybed; everything seems to change there. Your marks will do more for hammer spacing than the letoff bar for regulating if the distinctions between let off table and key bed are not accounted for. 

I've seen impressive reg tables though, in person and otherwise. Any information about duplicating the conditions facing a keyframe in the piano and on the regulation table would be invaluable. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 16:04
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:58
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Missed this one on the first upload. Sorry.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:49
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Benjamin,

You wrote: "I've seen impressive reg tables though, in person and otherwise. Any information about duplicating the conditions facing a keyframe in the piano and on the regulation table would be invaluable."

Are you familiar with Chris Brown's Regulation Station? It does the best job of replicating conditions in the piano away from it--including reproducing the keybed at keyframe contact points--that I have seen so far.

Best,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 16:55
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Thanks Karl,

Somehow I had tried to visualize something like the effect of carbon paper when spacing and voicing hammers at the piano. I didn't see you were manually marking string grooves.

As a teenager all I was allowed to do was bench regulate when the piano was not in the shop. The regulation table and affixed letoff jig designed, very well I might add, to level keys and set key dip, but not space prehung hammers, seemed ingenious, but in light of bedding the keyframe, when the piano was in the shop, it seemed less so.

Whenever possible I work at the piano with the action on the keybed; everything seems to change there. Your marks will do more for hammer spacing than the letoff bar for regulating if the distinctions between let off table and key bed are not accounted for. 

I've seen impressive reg tables though, in person and otherwise. Any information about duplicating the conditions facing a keyframe in the piano and on the regulation table would be invaluable. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 16:04
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:58
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Missed this one on the first upload. Sorry.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:49
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Alan,
I've paid close attention as possible to Chris Brown. Seen photos of his reg tables. Close enough attention to know Mario Igrec bought his business in the Boston area. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 17:03
From: Alan Eder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Benjamin,

You wrote: "I've seen impressive reg tables though, in person and otherwise. Any information about duplicating the conditions facing a keyframe in the piano and on the regulation table would be invaluable."

Are you familiar with Chris Brown's Regulation Station? It does the best job of replicating conditions in the piano away from it--including reproducing the keybed at keyframe contact points--that I have seen so far.

Best,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 16:55
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Thanks Karl,

Somehow I had tried to visualize something like the effect of carbon paper when spacing and voicing hammers at the piano. I didn't see you were manually marking string grooves.

As a teenager all I was allowed to do was bench regulate when the piano was not in the shop. The regulation table and affixed letoff jig designed, very well I might add, to level keys and set key dip, but not space prehung hammers, seemed ingenious, but in light of bedding the keyframe, when the piano was in the shop, it seemed less so.

Whenever possible I work at the piano with the action on the keybed; everything seems to change there. Your marks will do more for hammer spacing than the letoff bar for regulating if the distinctions between let off table and key bed are not accounted for. 

I've seen impressive reg tables though, in person and otherwise. Any information about duplicating the conditions facing a keyframe in the piano and on the regulation table would be invaluable. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 16:04
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:58
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Missed this one on the first upload. Sorry.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:49
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

I've used Chris Brown's GrandWorks regulating rack and key steps for a while now, and these tools significantly reduced the amount of time spent in the piano (meaning in customer's home) after a rebuilding or in-shop prep. I used to spend a day or day and a half before I could get to voicing, and now i am done in one day. If I had room, I would use his keybed-reproducing station. Instead I shim the key frame with tape to reproduce the aftertouch (using the key steps) on my workbench. For me, the benefits of this system are: 1) letoff and drop can be adjusted comfortably with a soothing backlit rack, 2) the hammer line can be checked or adjusted by lowering the rack a preset distance, 3) the lateral alignment of hammers can be reproduced better than inside the piano--if replacing the hammers, just record on the rack the position of the middle string grooves on original hammers at letoff, and you will end up with ideal alignment, and 4) the rack is solid enough to "play" the hammers into backchecking, comparing the results in pp and f. 

------------------------------
Mario Igrec
http://www.pianosinsideout.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 19:25
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Alan,
I've paid close attention as possible to Chris Brown. Seen photos of his reg tables. Close enough attention to know Mario Igrec bought his business in the Boston area. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 17:03
From: Alan Eder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Benjamin,

You wrote: "I've seen impressive reg tables though, in person and otherwise. Any information about duplicating the conditions facing a keyframe in the piano and on the regulation table would be invaluable."

Are you familiar with Chris Brown's Regulation Station? It does the best job of replicating conditions in the piano away from it--including reproducing the keybed at keyframe contact points--that I have seen so far.

Best,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 16:55
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Thanks Karl,

Somehow I had tried to visualize something like the effect of carbon paper when spacing and voicing hammers at the piano. I didn't see you were manually marking string grooves.

As a teenager all I was allowed to do was bench regulate when the piano was not in the shop. The regulation table and affixed letoff jig designed, very well I might add, to level keys and set key dip, but not space prehung hammers, seemed ingenious, but in light of bedding the keyframe, when the piano was in the shop, it seemed less so.

Whenever possible I work at the piano with the action on the keybed; everything seems to change there. Your marks will do more for hammer spacing than the letoff bar for regulating if the distinctions between let off table and key bed are not accounted for. 

I've seen impressive reg tables though, in person and otherwise. Any information about duplicating the conditions facing a keyframe in the piano and on the regulation table would be invaluable. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 16:04
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:58
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Missed this one on the first upload. Sorry.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:49
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

"Instead I shim the key frame with tape to reproduce the aftertouch (using the key steps) on my workbench. "

Hi Marc,
Could you explain where and how you are shimming to reproduce aftertouch?
Thanks,
David Weiss

Sent from my iPhone


Original Message------

I've used Chris Brown's GrandWorks regulating rack and key steps for a while now, and these tools significantly reduced the amount of time spent in the piano (meaning in customer's home) after a rebuilding or in-shop prep. I used to spend a day or day and a half before I could get to voicing, and now i am done in one day. If I had room, I would use his keybed-reproducing station. Instead I shim the key frame with tape to reproduce the aftertouch (using the key steps) on my workbench. For me, the benefits of this system are: 1) letoff and drop can be adjusted comfortably with a soothing backlit rack, 2) the hammer line can be checked or adjusted by lowering the rack a preset distance, 3) the lateral alignment of hammers can be reproduced better than inside the piano--if replacing the hammers, just record on the rack the position of the middle string grooves on original hammers at letoff, and you will end up with ideal alignment, and 4) the rack is solid enough to "play" the hammers into backchecking, comparing the results in pp and f. 

------------------------------
Mario Igrec
http://www.pianosinsideout.com
------------------------------

Key beds in many grands are slighly hollowed--concave or shaped like a trough, and the key frame is bedded to that shape. When you place the key frame on a flat bench, it tends to bend over the balance rail glides, increasing the key height and, therefore, aftertouch (and decreasing the backchecking height). Chris Brown's protocol calls for rebedding the key frame on the bench to produce the same key height and aftertouch as in the piano (for which he recommends using his Key Steps--small blocks with bolts that you adjust in the piano to support sample keys at front pins at rest). But if you're in a hurry or don't want to alter the glides, you can shim the front and/or back rail, or the glides, until the key height and aftertouch are the same on the bench as in the piano. I've shimmed the bench itself in the past by placing blue tape under the rails/glides as necessary, but if I need to use the bench for other uses where the tape would be in the way, I've placed the tape on the underside of the key frame itself.

Please note that if the key frame rocks over the glides, you need to clamp down the front and rear rails for stable results. If you use the regulating rack, it's also important that the rack sits squarely on the bench, and that it and the keyframe are always in the same spot. 

I see that Chris has posted a short video on this under "Welcome, piano regulator" at Introducing Grandwork. Worth taking a look.

------------------------------
Mario Igrec
http://www.pianosinsideout.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-13-2017 07:27
From: David Weiss
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

"Instead I shim the key frame with tape to reproduce the aftertouch (using the key steps) on my workbench. "

Hi Marc,
Could you explain where and how you are shimming to reproduce aftertouch?
Thanks,
David Weiss

Sent from my iPhone

NY Steinway keybed is raised in the middle at the front. The keyframe is shaped in the opposite direction. Shims need to be placed on the ends on the front of the keyframe on a regulation bench if the bench is plum

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-14-2017 13:34
From: Mario Igrec
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Key beds in many grands are slighly hollowed--concave or shaped like a trough, and the key frame is bedded to that shape. When you place the key frame on a flat bench, it tends to bend over the balance rail glides, increasing the key height and, therefore, aftertouch (and decreasing the backchecking height). Chris Brown's protocol calls for rebedding the key frame on the bench to produce the same key height and aftertouch as in the piano (for which he recommends using his Key Steps--small blocks with bolts that you adjust in the piano to support sample keys at front pins at rest). But if you're in a hurry or don't want to alter the glides, you can shim the front and/or back rail, or the glides, until the key height and aftertouch are the same on the bench as in the piano. I've shimmed the bench itself in the past by placing blue tape under the rails/glides as necessary, but if I need to use the bench for other uses where the tape would be in the way, I've placed the tape on the underside of the key frame itself.

Please note that if the key frame rocks over the glides, you need to clamp down the front and rear rails for stable results. If you use the regulating rack, it's also important that the rack sits squarely on the bench, and that it and the keyframe are always in the same spot. 

I see that Chris has posted a short video on this under "Welcome, piano regulator" at Introducing Grandwork. Worth taking a look.

------------------------------
Mario Igrec
http://www.pianosinsideout.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-13-2017 07:27
From: David Weiss
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

"Instead I shim the key frame with tape to reproduce the aftertouch (using the key steps) on my workbench. "

Hi Marc,
Could you explain where and how you are shimming to reproduce aftertouch?
Thanks,
David Weiss

Sent from my iPhone

The first thing I learned from Kawai MPAs is quintessential for celerity regulating at the piano with the action on the keybed:

An action prop mounted underneath the keybed. Steinway never emphasized this, be it American Steinway factory, Steinway school, Steinway summer music festival. Only with it, then, you begin to realize what possibilites are lost without it. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-12-2017 11:40
From: Mario Igrec
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

I've used Chris Brown's GrandWorks regulating rack and key steps for a while now, and these tools significantly reduced the amount of time spent in the piano (meaning in customer's home) after a rebuilding or in-shop prep. I used to spend a day or day and a half before I could get to voicing, and now i am done in one day. If I had room, I would use his keybed-reproducing station. Instead I shim the key frame with tape to reproduce the aftertouch (using the key steps) on my workbench. For me, the benefits of this system are: 1) letoff and drop can be adjusted comfortably with a soothing backlit rack, 2) the hammer line can be checked or adjusted by lowering the rack a preset distance, 3) the lateral alignment of hammers can be reproduced better than inside the piano--if replacing the hammers, just record on the rack the position of the middle string grooves on original hammers at letoff, and you will end up with ideal alignment, and 4) the rack is solid enough to "play" the hammers into backchecking, comparing the results in pp and f. 

------------------------------
Mario Igrec
http://www.pianosinsideout.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 19:25
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Alan,
I've paid close attention as possible to Chris Brown. Seen photos of his reg tables. Close enough attention to know Mario Igrec bought his business in the Boston area. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 17:03
From: Alan Eder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Benjamin,

You wrote: "I've seen impressive reg tables though, in person and otherwise. Any information about duplicating the conditions facing a keyframe in the piano and on the regulation table would be invaluable."

Are you familiar with Chris Brown's Regulation Station? It does the best job of replicating conditions in the piano away from it--including reproducing the keybed at keyframe contact points--that I have seen so far.

Best,

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 16:55
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Thanks Karl,

Somehow I had tried to visualize something like the effect of carbon paper when spacing and voicing hammers at the piano. I didn't see you were manually marking string grooves.

As a teenager all I was allowed to do was bench regulate when the piano was not in the shop. The regulation table and affixed letoff jig designed, very well I might add, to level keys and set key dip, but not space prehung hammers, seemed ingenious, but in light of bedding the keyframe, when the piano was in the shop, it seemed less so.

Whenever possible I work at the piano with the action on the keybed; everything seems to change there. Your marks will do more for hammer spacing than the letoff bar for regulating if the distinctions between let off table and key bed are not accounted for. 

I've seen impressive reg tables though, in person and otherwise. Any information about duplicating the conditions facing a keyframe in the piano and on the regulation table would be invaluable. 

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 16:04
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:58
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Missed this one on the first upload. Sorry.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 03-11-2017 15:49
From: Karl Roeder
Subject: installing pre-hung hammers, shanks, flanges

Mr. Black,

I use a regulation jig in the shop that I got from Brooks Ltd.  It's called " The Rack" . It's built so as to allow you to simulate the string height away from the piano. I've attached a photo of it ready to use rough regulating new parts on a model L. Also attached are some pictures showing how the rack and the action are marked with tape and some lines on the workbench so that I can get everything back in the same position when I need to.  I marked the string positions using the grooves on the old hammers prior to removing them. As to alignment in the bass you will want to be very careful in spacing and "casting" the hammers so that there is no interference between the tail of the hammers and the head of the neighboring hammers. I really love this jig but will warn you that I always have a few hours of spacing and fitting to the strings when I get back to the piano no matter how careful I am on the bench.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------