CAUT

  • 1.  Hidrau concert benches

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-13-2016 13:09

    I just took shipment of a new Hidrau concert bench, the one that looks like a standard Jansen et al, but is pneumatic in operation. Wow! great bench! A bit pricey, over $700 (cost the same as three of the T leg ones), but I'm sure it will be a hit. Pricing is wholesale direct to universities and the like, so this is going to retail for who knows what. The T leg ones retail for $650 - 700, though our cost direct, with quantity discount as well, is something like $245. My cost on the concert one was discounted by being grouped with an order of 6 of the T leg.

    Photos attached, showing the mechanism and the "knobs." Those knobs are oval, and you just turn them slightly, either direction, to adjust. Very even and easy adjustment, requires less weight (of the person sitting on the bench) to go down, also a smoother and slower operation. Very solid, no squeaks, no rocking, just like the T legs.

    For information about ordering direct from the factory in Spain, contact export@hidraumodel.com (Patrycja Piechota is the contact, and she is pretty fluent in English). They have now developed a way to pay using Visa credit card, but it is somewhat buggy, as it requires "pre-authorization" (verified by Visa or the like), and not all card issuers seem to support that. They are working on that system. It's better than having to pre-pay (their previous requirement), which doesn't sit well with the purchasing czars at most public institutions.

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    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
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  • 2.  RE: Hidrau concert benches

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-13-2016 13:21

     Fred. 

    Jannsen made hydraulic benches, but the pump that made the thing work wore out. What kind of guarantee do they offer? Did they give you instructions on how to keep the pump working? 

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789



  • 3.  RE: Hidrau concert benches

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-13-2016 13:29
    This is not hydraulic. They use gas-filled cylinders like the ones that open the back door of a hatchback. http://hidraumodel.com/en/ 

    I am not aware of a formal guarantee, but these are very high quality benches. The gas cylinders could be replaced fairly easily, should they fail. 
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "A mind is not a vessel to be filled, but a fire to be kindled." Plutarch











  • 4.  RE: Hidrau concert benches

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-13-2016 15:09

    This is great to know. We have had 2 of these type of benches (another brand but I have found zero differences as Fred and others have described the Hidrau -sp-??) in our recital halls at Texas Tech (and another at a professor's home) for about 3 years now. In our extremely high usage situstion there have been zero issues with the gas-filled "shocks",etc. I did have to tighten the leg screws at the bottom of one of them once--super easy and I do not consider this an issue at all. 

    The only negative feedback we have received is 1- one of our piano professors is too LIGHT to make these benches go down.

    2- some artists tend to prefer the size/weight of the Jansens. 

    So...both of these issues would be corrected with these new style. Cost is a factor, but for high use recital halls--sounds like a Great option! So, thanks much Fred. Keep us posted on this! 

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    Kevin Fortenberry
    Registered Piano Technician
    Lubbock TX
    806-778-3962



  • 5.  RE: Hidrau concert benches

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-13-2016 17:50
    Hi, all,

    The Jansen version of these pneumatic benches was made for Kawai exclusively at first, and a year or two ago they became available to us all. My David (Vanderlip) got one for Pomona College a year ago, and two of my concert halls have gotten them now. Don Mannino, a year ago, said they've been in use with Kawai grands for about 5 years with no failures.

    Our concert halls appreciate the fact that they look like the familiar Jansen benches, even down to the round adjustment "knobs", which in the case of the pneumatic, is just an "on-off" switch, spring-loaded to return when released. David found advantage in putting a noticeable dot on the active knob with a silver Sharpie, so you can tell which end is which. We also appreciate the fact that the legs are interchangeable. We keep Jansen J3 style legs handy in 12" and 16" lengths (14" legs are standard for US, 15" for benches coming with Hamburg Steinways). If an artist wants the bench to go higher or lower than standard, we can switch out legs very quickly.

    The Jansen benches go down somewhat easily when the knob is activated, This means that a lightweight pianist should have no problem going down. It also means, however, that a heavier person has to keep some control when the knob is released, or they can hit bottom with a slight thump.

    We are enjoying these benches very much. I'll bet you can sit on one in person in Norfolk; Kawai had one with their piano last year. And Don can answer questions about their experience with reliability. I don't know if Jansen will be there or not, but they are so easily available by phone if you need info.

    Kathy




  • 6.  RE: Hidrau concert benches

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-13-2016 21:47
    Kathy,
    I tried out the bench in the Kawai booth last year, and it seemed like a fine product. I planned to get one, but then I heard from Michelle Stranges (now at Western Washington) that Hidrau was now taking credit cards. Since I wanted some more of the other style benches, I decided to try out Hidrau's new concert-style bench while I was getting them.

    I didn't remember that the Jansen only had one active knob. I turned it over to see the mechanism, but it was covered with a shroud. I guess there is probably only one pneumatic cylinder, directly acted upon by one knob. 

    Hidrau has two opposing cylinders, operating across the width of the bench (on a scissors mechanism, as you can see in the photo). One presses up from left to right, the other from right to left. The knobs turn a central rod, that has opposing flanges in the middle, each with a short cable attached. The other end of each cable goes to one of the cylinder valves, or to a lever that acts on the valves. Nicely engineered so that you can turn either knob either way and release both valves.

    It is also very easy to control. Partly it is the fact that the knobs are oval, which makes them easier to turn. In addition, the design gives more lever advantage at the beginning of the turn, due to the circular motion of the flanges pulling straight on the cables. This makes the action on the valves minutely controllable, at the beginning of the turn of the knob, allowing you to just barely open the valve and lower the mechanism very slowly. I found I could sit on the bench with both my feet off the ground, and easily turn the knob so as to just barely release the valves, lowering the bench 1/2 inch or so at a time. 

    I'll check out the Kawai bench for comparison if one of them is there at Norfolk.
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." Twain






  • 7.  RE: Hidrau concert benches

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 07-14-2016 00:11
    Hi, Fred,

    Looking forward to seeing you in Norfolk; I expect you'll be there.

    I confess to limited experience with the Hidrau. I had an artist request a "hydraulic" bench last season, and we managed to rent one for the week from a local Bosendorfer dealer. (About four of those rental costs will pay for a new bench such as the ones we're talking about!) It worked out fine, but the venue was underwhelmed with its looks on stage, being more accustomed to the Jansen artist benches. I was interested in what I saw here, though, on how silent they are for recording sessions. That's still worth some thought.

    It's been a while since I played with David's bench at Pomona College, and we haven't unpacked the new ones at my venues (summer staffing, low priority). I do seem to recall that only one side was the active knob that unlocked the top so it can move; that's why David marked his. But I doubt it matters much, since most people habitually reach down for both knobs at once. I think that if you turn it part way, you can also control your descent, but I'll check it out when I get a chance.

    I expect to be a lot more conversant with the details of the bench after I've lived with one for a full season. The venue has many benches, but they plan to set this one aside for request-only, instead of mixing it in with the others. I have put labels under all the benches so the crew members can quickly go to the storage room and other spaces to find "the tall bench" or "the short bench". I can't see them running up and down stairs measuring leg lengths to sort it out.

    Thanks for your thoughts; always detailed and cogent but succinct. And valuable.




  • 8.  RE: Hidrau concert benches

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 02-21-2017 18:24
    I picked the wrong thread to reply to. This is the one where I wrote earlier about getting the new Hidrau concert style (looks like a Janssen) bench, described it, and attached photos. Look at the thread for more details. It's quite a bit different from the T-leg benches.

    BTW, we had the first Olga Kern Piano Competition here last fall, and Steinway provided pneumatic benches for the contestants. Not sure whether they were Hidrau, but they were that style, the upside down T leg.

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    Fred Sturm
    University of New Mexico
    fssturm@unm.edu
    http://fredsturm.net
    http://www.artoftuning.com
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
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