Pianotech

  • 1.  Knabe Grand Build Date

    Member
    Posted 03-21-2017 21:28
    I looked at a Knabe Grand with a square tail that had been donated to an arts organization that raises money for various causes including music scholarships. It is unique in more than one way. First- it is missing the pedal lyre which often is the key in dating Knabes at least in my experience. Second I only found which must be a part number 8130 on the cheek blocks. Third it was painted on the lid top an underside as well as the fallboard with a colorful Octopus by a scuba diver artist. Amazingly all of the ivory keytops are there and the action parts are original. As a piano it would need quite a bit of work and the plan is to auction it off as is. I have seen far worse but it will take some money to make it right with new hammer, shanks, flanges , key rebushing, regulation etc. I am trying to date it from the stencil on the plate which is S9852 That date puts it at 1864 since the beginning serial # for 1865 is 10,000 in Pierce. The Embossed name on the plate is a rectangle with WM.KNABE&CO in the middle with Established 1837 above the name and BaltimoreMD below.

    Would the S before the 9852 be the system used for Square tails or is there some other meaning ? There must be a Knabe expert out there in the PTG ...

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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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  • 2.  RE: Knabe Grand Build Date

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-21-2017 21:38
    James

    That's all very nice, but who's gonna to pay you to do the work?   Auctions don't bring in much money. Are you guaranteed full payment in case the piano only fetches $5000?


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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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  • 3.  RE: Knabe Grand Build Date

    Member
    Posted 03-21-2017 22:09
    I am just the messenger in all this asked to look at it and give an opinion and general idea of what it might need. Someone may buy it because of the unique mural artwork on it and care little of it as a piano. I see that often when people have grand pianos for show, decoration, photo display . Its true that auctions don't usually bring in much . If it is sold at auction it will be sold as is where is. The buyer would have to hire and pay me or another technician . Its not a total train wreck but it is what it is and may be 156 years old to boot....an antique ? yes pre ivory ban ? ditto

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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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  • 4.  RE: Knabe Grand Build Date

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-21-2017 22:20
    A beautiful 8'9" 1901 Knabe I tuned for a long time (Community Concerts) had the serial number on the soundboard, around octave 6.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 5.  RE: Knabe Grand Build Date

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 03-21-2017 22:32
    For quite a long time Knabe, like some others including Chickering in the 19th century, put the serial number in one place, usually before shipping;  the case number is usually all over the piano.  If the serial number is gone, it's gone, unless the case number t can be checked against the case book cross-reference.  Paul Monachino saved all the Knabe books except the first 10,000, and he also has a case book reference which cycles through the serial numbers and case numbers to 10,000 three times.  I have these in my computer now.
     
    You might have the serial number, but if so, the first number is not an "S".  How clear is the letter S?
     
    Bill
     
     
     
     





  • 6.  RE: Knabe Grand Build Date

    Member
    Posted 03-21-2017 23:58
    Bill   the letter is clearly different than the digit 5 .

      Since there is no lyre it can't confirm what is on the plate. The lyre seems to be one of the "hidden" places for numbers. Nothing on the cheek blocks or key slip . I sent you a picture that I have on my ipad...tell me what you think...I was not aware that Paul had some number books

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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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  • 7.  RE: Knabe Grand Build Date

    Posted 03-22-2017 06:06
    Look in the action cavity.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
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  • 8.  RE: Knabe Grand Build Date

    Member
    Posted 03-22-2017 09:04
    After further review the ruling on the field is changed. The first digit is not an S but the number 8.  Thanks to Bill Schull I went back to my picture and re-examined it. I will be returning to the scene today to get some pictures I did not have time for yesterday. Will look in other places such as on the soundboard and in the action cavity if I have time.

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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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  • 9.  RE: Knabe Grand Build Date

    Posted 03-22-2017 09:37
    An 1860's Knabe Grand would be quite a discovery (if they were made at all that early). It would clearly have pre-modern action parts and less than 88 notes.
    In the early 20th century Knabe made small art case grands with square tail cases. Many of these were player pianos.

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    Ed Sutton
    ed440@me.com
    (980) 254-7413
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  • 10.  RE: Knabe Grand Build Date

    Member
    Posted 03-22-2017 20:37
    sorry to disappoint anyone but it is not an 1860's . Not sure if an 1860's would have the wing shape so chances are that vintage would have been a square grand...I doubt anyone will be willing to put the money into it as a piano but you never know...

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    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
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