Jon,
I had tried this undercutting on a Hallet&davisfinegermancraftsmanshipmadeinchina awful excretion of a PSO, which I now refuse to tune...or rather make refused to try to tune. Ended up at the Chiropractor every time and it still was out of tune in a half-hour. The combination of termination angle (both agraffe and capo sections), wide brass bearing counter-bearing, followed by dense felt stuffed well under the strings makes it utterly un-readable. Strings move up, but never down.
I tried, as a test, before condemning the damn thing, taking a razor and cutting a "V" under the compressed felt behind the brass counter-bearing... All the way to no felt/string contact at all. To my surprise there was no difference at all that I could discern. I expected some change...but nada...pitch moves up, but not down.
I think its a whole bunch of things conspiring to create this mess...too wide a counter-bearing surface, too steep a termination angle, the compressed felt, 15 yr old string corrosion, and I bet inappropriate metal used in the strings. One possibility, I think that could also apply to apply to Geoff's Kawai, which at 80's vintage might be a similar materials issue, is that the wire itself is at fault, because the string does not move in both the different termination conditions presented by agraffes and capos. I'm not sure of what metallurgical problems are present, but one guess might be wire is made from recycled metal. Recycled, with uncertain admixtures of elements, and, in that time in China's rise, untrustworthy sourcing ie corrupt suppliers giving false material composition certifications.
Horrible horrible piano, and I have tuned other Hallet&davisfinegermancraftsmanshipmadeinchina PSO's with the same MO
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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
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Original Message:
Sent: 06-20-2017 07:57
From: Jon Page
Subject: String rendering from tuning pin to front termination question
If the underfelt is too compacted and adding friction, can it be under cut with a MultiTool blade to relieve some pressure? I had an Asian piano with that problem and I was considering an angled plunge from each side under the unisons to hopefully remove material. Fortunately his new piano teacher recommended her tuner and it's no longer my nemesis.
If the string angle coming up from the v-bar to the counter bearing is too steep, the only way to tune that is to pull into tune and leave it. There is no finessing the pin when there is that much resistance. The same goes for many Aeolian products: M&H, Chickering to name a few.
If there weren't such a severe rendering problem I'd suggest tightening the coils with a pair of parallel pliers.
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Regards,
Jon Page
Original Message:
Sent: 06-20-2017 04:05
From: Willem Blees
Subject: String rendering from tuning pin to front termination question
Geoff
The only suggestion I can make is that there could be burrs on the strings. Little notches that keep the string from rendering over one of the bearing points, until you put too much tension on the strings, and then it jumps.
The solution is to release the tension of one string, and pull it up on the other. This gets the burr or notch away from the bearing point.
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Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
Original Message:
Sent: 06-20-2017 02:09
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: String rendering from tuning pin to front termination question
While I experience this problem on a number of pianos, I have one piano that I service frequently that is, unfortunately, the hardest piano I have to tune. And even though I know I'm brought in so frequently because of uncontrollable AC in a large room, (don't ask), I nevertheless know that the tuning that I'm struggling to leave on this piano is not going to stay very long.
Kawai GS-70 from 1988 in generally very good condition.
No problems in the bass or middle, which are all agraffes, but the notes from the treble break up to the top just will not allow me to set the string and have it stay where I put it. It's one of those issues where you turn the tuning pin and the pitch does not change. The string is friction bound across that wide spread of felt, then over the brass half round where it makes a steep curve through the front duplex and finally across the capo. I have cleaned these surfaces and I have used Protek CLP on all the bearing points. This has noticeably helped, but not nearly enough. Pounding harder than I normally ever do on a well behaved piano also helps a bit, but it also tends to knock out the tuning of the other strings in that unison that I thought I had already set. Even when I think I may have everything set I discover that the strings are not at all stable.
I'm afraid to lubricate too much because I know that some friction in this area is absolutely necessary.
Looking for help, tips, tricks, whatever you have up your sleeve. Things that cost more than a little money may be nice to know, although time is OK, but there's no money to put into this piano as long as I'm available to tune it frequently. And normally I wouldn't mind this, but the struggle just wears me out. I service many pianos for this customer and we have a really good relationship, but I hate this piano. And I don't want to.
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Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
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