Pianotech

Hi y'all,

This might be controversial to ask, but how does everyone charge customers for travel time? In a big city, it can often take an hour or more each way for one tuning. Do you have a "mileage charge" after a certain minimum number of miles. Some use "outside the city limits", but that would depend on how close you live to the city limits. For instance I live at the southern border of Austin city limits, so I could drive to neighboring towns like San Marcos, etc. quicker than driving to north Austin. Depending on traffic (which is mostly always horrible in Austin these days) and the fact that Google maps app will tell you how long it takes to drive somewhere, the number of miles may not be as important as the time it takes. So I'm looking for info on what others techs charge as far as mileage and/or time, and how they arrive at that decision.

I'd rather avoid suggestions like "just book appointments close to each other in the same visit if they're far away", etc...

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

Jeff,

Your question clearly tells me that your fees are too low.  

I simply set my minimum fee high enough to make it relatively worth it to go anywhere within my service territory. Everybody shares the load. If they don't like it...too bad. Get somebody else.

Yes...try to book appointments reasonably close together. But really, just jack your fee up so you get paid well for what you do. Way too many techs SERIOUSLY charge too little. You should be WELL into three figures, at least. The clients that quit as a result are the ones that were bargain hunters anyway.

Of course, if someone is WAY out and still seriously wants you...charge accordingly...but its actually more professional to refer them to someone closer.  If they really want you, they'll pay whatever you ask. 

That's my soapbox for today.   ☺

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 15:32
From: Jeff Farris
Subject: Travel Time

Hi y'all,

This might be controversial to ask, but how does everyone charge customers for travel time? In a big city, it can often take an hour or more each way for one tuning. Do you have a "mileage charge" after a certain minimum number of miles. Some use "outside the city limits", but that would depend on how close you live to the city limits. For instance I live at the southern border of Austin city limits, so I could drive to neighboring towns like San Marcos, etc. quicker than driving to north Austin. Depending on traffic (which is mostly always horrible in Austin these days) and the fact that Google maps app will tell you how long it takes to drive somewhere, the number of miles may not be as important as the time it takes. So I'm looking for info on what others techs charge as far as mileage and/or time, and how they arrive at that decision.

I'd rather avoid suggestions like "just book appointments close to each other in the same visit if they're far away", etc...

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

What Peter said!

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 15:52
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Travel Time

Jeff,

Your question clearly tells me that your fees are too low.  

I simply set my minimum fee high enough to make it relatively worth it to go anywhere within my service territory. Everybody shares the load. If they don't like it...too bad. Get somebody else.

Yes...try to book appointments reasonably close together. But really, just jack your fee up so you get paid well for what you do. Way too many techs SERIOUSLY charge too little. You should be WELL into three figures, at least. The clients that quit as a result are the ones that were bargain hunters anyway.

Of course, if someone is WAY out and still seriously wants you...charge accordingly...but its actually more professional to refer them to someone closer.  If they really want you, they'll pay whatever you ask. 

That's my soapbox for today.   ☺

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 15:32
From: Jeff Farris
Subject: Travel Time

Hi y'all,

This might be controversial to ask, but how does everyone charge customers for travel time? In a big city, it can often take an hour or more each way for one tuning. Do you have a "mileage charge" after a certain minimum number of miles. Some use "outside the city limits", but that would depend on how close you live to the city limits. For instance I live at the southern border of Austin city limits, so I could drive to neighboring towns like San Marcos, etc. quicker than driving to north Austin. Depending on traffic (which is mostly always horrible in Austin these days) and the fact that Google maps app will tell you how long it takes to drive somewhere, the number of miles may not be as important as the time it takes. So I'm looking for info on what others techs charge as far as mileage and/or time, and how they arrive at that decision.

I'd rather avoid suggestions like "just book appointments close to each other in the same visit if they're far away", etc...

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

Hi Jeff:
I don't generally charge extra for mileage, but sometimes in outlying areas I do. It might be worthwhile to look into Gazelle or other "smart" scheduling services that will route your jobs in the same area. You'll save on gas and not have to drive all over the place.
Paul McCloud
San Diego


Original Message------

Hi y'all,

This might be controversial to ask, but how does everyone charge customers for travel time? In a big city, it can often take an hour or more each way for one tuning. Do you have a "mileage charge" after a certain minimum number of miles. Some use "outside the city limits", but that would depend on how close you live to the city limits. For instance I live at the southern border of Austin city limits, so I could drive to neighboring towns like San Marcos, etc. quicker than driving to north Austin. Depending on traffic (which is mostly always horrible in Austin these days) and the fact that Google maps app will tell you how long it takes to drive somewhere, the number of miles may not be as important as the time it takes. So I'm looking for info on what others techs charge as far as mileage and/or time, and how they arrive at that decision.

I'd rather avoid suggestions like "just book appointments close to each other in the same visit if they're far away", etc...

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

Jeff 

im sorry but asking about charging for travel time and then saying you want to avoid talking about bunching appointments together is like asking how to tune better, but asking us not to talk about tuning unisons.  

Travrl between customers is all about bunching your appointments. Avoid driving from one end of town unless you absolutely have to.  If you can't schedule appointments close to each other, pick another day.  

When i schedule an appointment I give my customers a time when I'm going to be in their neighborhood. If they can't do that, I pick another day when I'm going to be there.  Then if nothing works, I pick a new day, even if it's two or three weeks later.  

And last, make sure you charge enough to cover your driving time.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 15:32
From: Jeff Farris
Subject: Travel Time

Hi y'all,

This might be controversial to ask, but how does everyone charge customers for travel time? In a big city, it can often take an hour or more each way for one tuning. Do you have a "mileage charge" after a certain minimum number of miles. Some use "outside the city limits", but that would depend on how close you live to the city limits. For instance I live at the southern border of Austin city limits, so I could drive to neighboring towns like San Marcos, etc. quicker than driving to north Austin. Depending on traffic (which is mostly always horrible in Austin these days) and the fact that Google maps app will tell you how long it takes to drive somewhere, the number of miles may not be as important as the time it takes. So I'm looking for info on what others techs charge as far as mileage and/or time, and how they arrive at that decision.

I'd rather avoid suggestions like "just book appointments close to each other in the same visit if they're far away", etc...

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

I agree with Peter and Wim. But my key is related to Peters comment about charging enough to do calls within your service area. I have a service area map posted on my website, and within that service area I have a set fee that applies to everyone. I developed this service area around both travel time and distance. Essentially, I asked myself how far, or long, I'm willing to drive at any given hour of the day and not be exhausted when I reach my destination, and then return, and then drew a line on the map. Outside that service area is pretty gray. Depending on X, Y, and sometimes Z circumstances I may or may not charge differently. And to be honest, that difference depends a lot on the customers attitude and the piano they have. Given the noticeable increase in traffic congestion in LA over the last year of so, I recently redesigned my service area map, making it smaller. I'm also about two months away from raising my rates. I plan on keeping my existing customers outside my new boundaries, but I have no hesitation whatsoever about referring new customers to other qualified PTG techs that are closer to them. Which is a win-win. I refer a customer to a PTG companion when I don't want to go to their part of town, and in return I usually get referred by them when they don't want to come to my part of town. 

That said, I do have one customer that is a two hour drive, each way, with no traffic, that I service once or sometimes twice a year. I charge him my normal hourly rate for drive time, both directions, plus my normal fee for tuning. He's always happy to pay it. And as a result, I'm always happy to make the trip. The only downside to this is that I have to make absolutely certain that ALL the work I do on that visit is perfect! Because if he calls me up the next day with a problem that I missed then the return trip is on me. Fortunately that has never happened.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 16:28
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Travel Time

Jeff 

im sorry but asking about charging for travel time and then saying you want to avoid talking about bunching appointments together is like asking how to tune better, but asking us not to talk about tuning unisons.  

Travrl between customers is all about bunching your appointments. Avoid driving from one end of town unless you absolutely have to.  If you can't schedule appointments close to each other, pick another day.  

When i schedule an appointment I give my customers a time when I'm going to be in their neighborhood. If they can't do that, I pick another day when I'm going to be there.  Then if nothing works, I pick a new day, even if it's two or three weeks later.  

And last, make sure you charge enough to cover your driving time.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 15:32
From: Jeff Farris
Subject: Travel Time

Hi y'all,

This might be controversial to ask, but how does everyone charge customers for travel time? In a big city, it can often take an hour or more each way for one tuning. Do you have a "mileage charge" after a certain minimum number of miles. Some use "outside the city limits", but that would depend on how close you live to the city limits. For instance I live at the southern border of Austin city limits, so I could drive to neighboring towns like San Marcos, etc. quicker than driving to north Austin. Depending on traffic (which is mostly always horrible in Austin these days) and the fact that Google maps app will tell you how long it takes to drive somewhere, the number of miles may not be as important as the time it takes. So I'm looking for info on what others techs charge as far as mileage and/or time, and how they arrive at that decision.

I'd rather avoid suggestions like "just book appointments close to each other in the same visit if they're far away", etc...

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

One more comment on drive time/charge, which might be what Jeff was asking about. I don't have that problem here in Hawaii, because all my customers are less than an hour away, but when I was in St. Louis, I would get calls from customers who lived outside the St. Louis metropolitan area. For them I charged them mileage based on one way to the customer, plus the service call, of course. In other words, what ever the distance was to the customer's house from my house. Back then I charged $1.50 per mile, but that was when gas was $1.25 a gallon and I was getting $55 for a tuning. Now you probably want to charge three times as much, if not more.

The reason I charged one way was because what I did after that appointment was my business. I might schedule other appointments in the area, go camping for the rest of the day, or drive back to the St. Louis area, where I would tune more pianos. And I didn't think he should have to pay for that.


------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 21:27
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: Travel Time

I agree with Peter and Wim. But my key is related to Peters comment about charging enough to do calls within your service area. I have a service area map posted on my website, and within that service area I have a set fee that applies to everyone. I developed this service area around both travel time and distance. Essentially, I asked myself how far, or long, I'm willing to drive at any given hour of the day and not be exhausted when I reach my destination, and then return, and then drew a line on the map. Outside that service area is pretty gray. Depending on X, Y, and sometimes Z circumstances I may or may not charge differently. And to be honest, that difference depends a lot on the customers attitude and the piano they have. Given the noticeable increase in traffic congestion in LA over the last year of so, I recently redesigned my service area map, making it smaller. I'm also about two months away from raising my rates. I plan on keeping my existing customers outside my new boundaries, but I have no hesitation whatsoever about referring new customers to other qualified PTG techs that are closer to them. Which is a win-win. I refer a customer to a PTG companion when I don't want to go to their part of town, and in return I usually get referred by them when they don't want to come to my part of town. 

That said, I do have one customer that is a two hour drive, each way, with no traffic, that I service once or sometimes twice a year. I charge him my normal hourly rate for drive time, both directions, plus my normal fee for tuning. He's always happy to pay it. And as a result, I'm always happy to make the trip. The only downside to this is that I have to make absolutely certain that ALL the work I do on that visit is perfect! Because if he calls me up the next day with a problem that I missed then the return trip is on me. Fortunately that has never happened.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 16:28
From: Willem Blees
Subject: Travel Time

Jeff 

im sorry but asking about charging for travel time and then saying you want to avoid talking about bunching appointments together is like asking how to tune better, but asking us not to talk about tuning unisons.  

Travrl between customers is all about bunching your appointments. Avoid driving from one end of town unless you absolutely have to.  If you can't schedule appointments close to each other, pick another day.  

When i schedule an appointment I give my customers a time when I'm going to be in their neighborhood. If they can't do that, I pick another day when I'm going to be there.  Then if nothing works, I pick a new day, even if it's two or three weeks later.  

And last, make sure you charge enough to cover your driving time.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 15:32
From: Jeff Farris
Subject: Travel Time

Hi y'all,

This might be controversial to ask, but how does everyone charge customers for travel time? In a big city, it can often take an hour or more each way for one tuning. Do you have a "mileage charge" after a certain minimum number of miles. Some use "outside the city limits", but that would depend on how close you live to the city limits. For instance I live at the southern border of Austin city limits, so I could drive to neighboring towns like San Marcos, etc. quicker than driving to north Austin. Depending on traffic (which is mostly always horrible in Austin these days) and the fact that Google maps app will tell you how long it takes to drive somewhere, the number of miles may not be as important as the time it takes. So I'm looking for info on what others techs charge as far as mileage and/or time, and how they arrive at that decision.

I'd rather avoid suggestions like "just book appointments close to each other in the same visit if they're far away", etc...

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

Ideal situation:
Time is more important than miles in most cities.
Calculate your service call fee based on your choice of maximum travel time.
On a map, draw your service area, based on your chosen travel time.
Never accept a service call outside that area,
Now you have a predictable hourly income' and you can give generously in your service call.
If you are in the right place and giving the right service at the right price, you will soon have a thriving and comfortable business.
If you are in the wrong place, move, or plan to spend large chunks of your life on the road.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 15:32
From: Jeff Farris
Subject: Travel Time

Hi y'all,

This might be controversial to ask, but how does everyone charge customers for travel time? In a big city, it can often take an hour or more each way for one tuning. Do you have a "mileage charge" after a certain minimum number of miles. Some use "outside the city limits", but that would depend on how close you live to the city limits. For instance I live at the southern border of Austin city limits, so I could drive to neighboring towns like San Marcos, etc. quicker than driving to north Austin. Depending on traffic (which is mostly always horrible in Austin these days) and the fact that Google maps app will tell you how long it takes to drive somewhere, the number of miles may not be as important as the time it takes. So I'm looking for info on what others techs charge as far as mileage and/or time, and how they arrive at that decision.

I'd rather avoid suggestions like "just book appointments close to each other in the same visit if they're far away", etc...

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

When you are growing a business it doesn't hurt to go easy on clients in regards to travel fee. Once you start staying consistently busy you will certainly benefit from a travel fee policy. There are a couple of reasons.

1. The trip fee adds up by the end of the year! In 2016 we collected $2376 in trip fees.
2. The higher the trip fee the more motivated clients are to find others in their area who can share the fee with them. Its great when clients do your marketing for you!

Like others have mentioned, we have a base travel fee that is included in our basic service appointments for our local clients. Since I don't live in a big city, we base it mostly on mileage. We don't charge an additional fee for clients within a 20 mile radius. Beyond that the per mile fee changes depending on distance. Here's our breakdown:
20-30 miles = $1.25 per mile.31-40 = $1.30 per mile.  41-50 = $1.35 per mile. 51-60 = $1.50 per mile.  61-70 = $1.65. 
So someone 55 miles away will pay $82.50.(55 x $1.50)  If they know of others in the vicinity that can schedule on the same day it can be split up to 3 ways, which would only be $27.50. That $55 savings is a real motivator for people to drum up some more business for you. 

I can't see a downside. 


------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 22:11
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Travel Time

Ideal situation:
Time is more important than miles in most cities.
Calculate your service call fee based on your choice of maximum travel time.
On a map, draw your service area, based on your chosen travel time.
Never accept a service call outside that area,
Now you have a predictable hourly income' and you can give generously in your service call.
If you are in the right place and giving the right service at the right price, you will soon have a thriving and comfortable business.
If you are in the wrong place, move, or plan to spend large chunks of your life on the road.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 15:32
From: Jeff Farris
Subject: Travel Time

Hi y'all,

This might be controversial to ask, but how does everyone charge customers for travel time? In a big city, it can often take an hour or more each way for one tuning. Do you have a "mileage charge" after a certain minimum number of miles. Some use "outside the city limits", but that would depend on how close you live to the city limits. For instance I live at the southern border of Austin city limits, so I could drive to neighboring towns like San Marcos, etc. quicker than driving to north Austin. Depending on traffic (which is mostly always horrible in Austin these days) and the fact that Google maps app will tell you how long it takes to drive somewhere, the number of miles may not be as important as the time it takes. So I'm looking for info on what others techs charge as far as mileage and/or time, and how they arrive at that decision.

I'd rather avoid suggestions like "just book appointments close to each other in the same visit if they're far away", etc...

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

I don't charge for travel unless someone insists on my traveling outside my normal service area which is about an hour driving.  And then I usually just insist on a minimum service call of two hours (one hour is my basic appointment).  You didn't want to hear this but I do group appointments by area. Wasn't always able to do that early in my career, or it was more difficult. Building my service areas was part of the program early on. Charging more for those seemed like it would discourage development. Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather thsn just hire someone closer?  At this point I am easily able to schedule 3-5 appointments in any given area. I don't drive an hour for one appointment or even two unless one is an extended service or multiple pianos. Piano inspections for purchase are the most problematic as time is often of the essence. In that case I do charge for travel both ways at 1/2 my hourly rate but usually I'll suggest they get someone else to look at it.  Of course, they don't always want to do that ;-)

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-12-2017 15:32
From: Jeff Farris
Subject: Travel Time

Hi y'all,

This might be controversial to ask, but how does everyone charge customers for travel time? In a big city, it can often take an hour or more each way for one tuning. Do you have a "mileage charge" after a certain minimum number of miles. Some use "outside the city limits", but that would depend on how close you live to the city limits. For instance I live at the southern border of Austin city limits, so I could drive to neighboring towns like San Marcos, etc. quicker than driving to north Austin. Depending on traffic (which is mostly always horrible in Austin these days) and the fact that Google maps app will tell you how long it takes to drive somewhere, the number of miles may not be as important as the time it takes. So I'm looking for info on what others techs charge as far as mileage and/or time, and how they arrive at that decision.

I'd rather avoid suggestions like "just book appointments close to each other in the same visit if they're far away", etc...

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

Original Message------

Hi y'all,

This might be controversial to ask, but how does everyone charge customers for travel time? In a big city, it can often take an hour or more each way for one tuning. Do you have a "mileage charge" after a certain minimum number of miles. Some use "outside the city limits", but that would depend on how close you live to the city limits. For instance I live at the southern border of Austin city limits, so I could drive to neighboring towns like San Marcos, etc. quicker than driving to north Austin. Depending on traffic (which is mostly always horrible in Austin these days) and the fact that Google maps app will tell you how long it takes to drive somewhere, the number of miles may not be as important as the time it takes. So I'm looking for info on what others techs charge as far as mileage and/or time, and how they arrive at that decision.

I'd rather avoid suggestions like "just book appointments close to each other in the same visit if they're far away", etc...

Thanks in advance,
Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

David Love Said:

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service. 

As I said, when I drive outside my service area there is a minimum appointment time, usually double, and if it's well outside I charge travel. In my appointment area which encompasses up to about one hour I'm an equal opportunity technician. Everyone gets charged at the same rate though some appointments will certainly be more involved. Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?

I took the discussion to be about developing business.  Meaning people don't yet know that they want you at any cost.  It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality. I have no shortage, so far so good.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 12:42
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said:

          "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?"

The same reason my wife drives an hour North to Seattle to get her hair done. She really likes her stylist and has become loyal. There is risk involved in changing. (its also an excuse for her and her sister to get together for lunch at the Pike's Place Market!)

I often tell people that technicians are like hairdressers. Think about the difference between a barber and a cosmetologist:

"the main distinction between barbers and cosmetologists is that barbers focus specially on hair while cosmetologists work more generally on hair, skin, and nails, concentrating on beauty enhancement.",  study.com/articles/Barber_vs_Cosmetologist_Whats_the_Difference.html

Barbers are the equivalent of the "tune and run" technician. Cosmetologists are the equivalent of the "full service technician" approach. I don't see my job as tuning the piano, I see it as "concentrating on beauty enhancement". That means tuning, tone regulating, lubrication, cleaning etc. My mission statement is to "inspire music making". This also means performing a piece of music for my clients to demonstrate what their instrument is capable of and hopefully inspiring them to spend more time in front of it. When the clients play more, our businesses thrive. 

Whether or not someone is willing to pay an extra $50 to hire you rather than someone closer depends largely on the competition and if you are able to offer something special. Ultimately the market decides.  

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service. 

Yes, the discussion is about how other technicians justify charging extra and how they go about it. It's not about starting a business or drumming up business. That's why I mentioned avoiding discussions of how to schedule.

I have heard from several technicians and most use different methods. Having a certain "area" of service with a designated service call or tuning fee, but then adding extra for folks outside of that area seems like the most reasonable to me, rather than number of miles, etc. 

Thanks for participating. Feel free to continue the discussion at will.

Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 15:45
From: David Love
Subject: Travel Time

As I said, when I drive outside my service area there is a minimum appointment time, usually double, and if it's well outside I charge travel. In my appointment area which encompasses up to about one hour I'm an equal opportunity technician. Everyone gets charged at the same rate though some appointments will certainly be more involved. Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?

I took the discussion to be about developing business.  Meaning people don't yet know that they want you at any cost.  It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality. I have no shortage, so far so good.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 12:42
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said:

          "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?"

The same reason my wife drives an hour North to Seattle to get her hair done. She really likes her stylist and has become loyal. There is risk involved in changing. (its also an excuse for her and her sister to get together for lunch at the Pike's Place Market!)

I often tell people that technicians are like hairdressers. Think about the difference between a barber and a cosmetologist:

"the main distinction between barbers and cosmetologists is that barbers focus specially on hair while cosmetologists work more generally on hair, skin, and nails, concentrating on beauty enhancement.",  study.com/articles/Barber_vs_Cosmetologist_Whats_the_Difference.html

Barbers are the equivalent of the "tune and run" technician. Cosmetologists are the equivalent of the "full service technician" approach. I don't see my job as tuning the piano, I see it as "concentrating on beauty enhancement". That means tuning, tone regulating, lubrication, cleaning etc. My mission statement is to "inspire music making". This also means performing a piece of music for my clients to demonstrate what their instrument is capable of and hopefully inspiring them to spend more time in front of it. When the clients play more, our businesses thrive. 

Whether or not someone is willing to pay an extra $50 to hire you rather than someone closer depends largely on the competition and if you are able to offer something special. Ultimately the market decides.  

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service. 

Mr. Farris,
Due to the unique geography of the southeast Florida market and the decision I made years ago to try and help anyone who asks I have adjusted my fee structure to reflect distance. If a client is within about 20 miles North or South of Pompano Beach they get the base rate for a service call. 20 to 40 miles gets them a 15% surcharge. 40 to 60 miles and it's about 30%. Outside of about 100 miles I start charging a day rate which may or may not be shared by multiple clients. The day rate is calculated based on me driving 2 hrs in the morning and 2 hrs after dark among lunatics. The fee if I have to stay overnight is calculated to try and make even the hedge fund managers find someone else.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 16:22
From: Jeff Farris
Subject: Travel Time

Yes, the discussion is about how other technicians justify charging extra and how they go about it. It's not about starting a business or drumming up business. That's why I mentioned avoiding discussions of how to schedule.

I have heard from several technicians and most use different methods. Having a certain "area" of service with a designated service call or tuning fee, but then adding extra for folks outside of that area seems like the most reasonable to me, rather than number of miles, etc. 

Thanks for participating. Feel free to continue the discussion at will.

Jeff

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 15:45
From: David Love
Subject: Travel Time

As I said, when I drive outside my service area there is a minimum appointment time, usually double, and if it's well outside I charge travel. In my appointment area which encompasses up to about one hour I'm an equal opportunity technician. Everyone gets charged at the same rate though some appointments will certainly be more involved. Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?

I took the discussion to be about developing business.  Meaning people don't yet know that they want you at any cost.  It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality. I have no shortage, so far so good.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 12:42
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said:

          "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?"

The same reason my wife drives an hour North to Seattle to get her hair done. She really likes her stylist and has become loyal. There is risk involved in changing. (its also an excuse for her and her sister to get together for lunch at the Pike's Place Market!)

I often tell people that technicians are like hairdressers. Think about the difference between a barber and a cosmetologist:

"the main distinction between barbers and cosmetologists is that barbers focus specially on hair while cosmetologists work more generally on hair, skin, and nails, concentrating on beauty enhancement.",  study.com/articles/Barber_vs_Cosmetologist_Whats_the_Difference.html

Barbers are the equivalent of the "tune and run" technician. Cosmetologists are the equivalent of the "full service technician" approach. I don't see my job as tuning the piano, I see it as "concentrating on beauty enhancement". That means tuning, tone regulating, lubrication, cleaning etc. My mission statement is to "inspire music making". This also means performing a piece of music for my clients to demonstrate what their instrument is capable of and hopefully inspiring them to spend more time in front of it. When the clients play more, our businesses thrive. 

Whether or not someone is willing to pay an extra $50 to hire you rather than someone closer depends largely on the competition and if you are able to offer something special. Ultimately the market decides.  

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service. 

David Love Said: "It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality"

That's the reality I have been living in for many years. Just tuning the piano and collecting the check would not be very rewarding in many cases. Lubing key pins and putting teflon on knuckles takes about 5 or 10 minutes. A quick voicing down of the midrange takes about 15-20 minutes, fixing the squeaky pedal, installing some new felt so the pedal doesn't knock on release and adjusting the free play takes about 5 minutes. With LaRoy's let off rack I can do let-off and drop in about 30 minutes or less. It's surprising what you can get done in a couple of hours if you are focused and thoughtful about how to apply your effort. But like anything else it takes years of practice to get good at it. 

And to be clear, I'm not talking about working on beautiful, high-end pianos all the time. My demographics won't allow it. I'm in the trenches slogging my way through plenty of spinets, consoles, and old uprights. "World Class Junk" as Susan might call it! :)

Paid performance? I'm not getting paid to perform, but I see test driving the piano as part of my job. In many cases clients have never heard a serious piece of music played on their home piano. Do many of my clients look forward to that part of the appointment? Of course they do. But it is also very practical as I will often catch minor voicing issues, buzzes, or whatever. 

The whole reason I brought it up was in response to "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?".  The "real world" is that people not only pay the trip fee, they pay a premium for the service appointments. Of course, there are many clients who don't see the value in it and hire the cheapest tuner. But the best clients understand they get what they pay for, and once they experience the difference between "Just a tuning" and full service, they become reliable allies. 

The OP asked how others charge for travel time. Obviously there are many technicians who do not charge. That's a reasonable choice to make. However, charging a modest fee to compensate you for the extra time and expense involved in a commute is also very reasonable as long as the client knows up front what the fee will be. 

David said: "Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?"

Draw the line wherever you want. For me its 20 miles.When Jean books the appointment she's checking on Google maps to see where they are at and quotes them the trip fee. If they are 19 miles away, there is no added fee (its really part of the basic fee). If they are 20 miles away they pay. It's not complicated. It's a policy that we set a number of years ago and we occasionally revise it. 

Raising rates and adjusting fees is a challenging aspect of the business. It's emotional. That's why I'm a strong advocate of doing it in small annual or bi-annual increments. The market will let you know if you are overstepping your limits. If you have never had a trip fee before, it may be hard to introduce it because you are worried how clients will react. The least painful way is to start out small and then creep it up slowly over time. That's a good reason to introduce a trip fee early on in one's career. You'll be able to reap the benefits for many years. 

If 200 appointments over the course of the year bring in a $10 trip fee, that is $2000 of income. That could pay for the PTG conference!





------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 15:45
From: David Love
Subject: Travel Time

As I said, when I drive outside my service area there is a minimum appointment time, usually double, and if it's well outside I charge travel. In my appointment area which encompasses up to about one hour I'm an equal opportunity technician. Everyone gets charged at the same rate though some appointments will certainly be more involved. Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?

I took the discussion to be about developing business.  Meaning people don't yet know that they want you at any cost.  It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality. I have no shortage, so far so good.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 12:42
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said:

          "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?"

The same reason my wife drives an hour North to Seattle to get her hair done. She really likes her stylist and has become loyal. There is risk involved in changing. (its also an excuse for her and her sister to get together for lunch at the Pike's Place Market!)

I often tell people that technicians are like hairdressers. Think about the difference between a barber and a cosmetologist:

"the main distinction between barbers and cosmetologists is that barbers focus specially on hair while cosmetologists work more generally on hair, skin, and nails, concentrating on beauty enhancement.",  study.com/articles/Barber_vs_Cosmetologist_Whats_the_Difference.html

Barbers are the equivalent of the "tune and run" technician. Cosmetologists are the equivalent of the "full service technician" approach. I don't see my job as tuning the piano, I see it as "concentrating on beauty enhancement". That means tuning, tone regulating, lubrication, cleaning etc. My mission statement is to "inspire music making". This also means performing a piece of music for my clients to demonstrate what their instrument is capable of and hopefully inspiring them to spend more time in front of it. When the clients play more, our businesses thrive. 

Whether or not someone is willing to pay an extra $50 to hire you rather than someone closer depends largely on the competition and if you are able to offer something special. Ultimately the market decides.  

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service. 

Hmmmm...maybe I'll start doing that. 

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-15-2017 11:14
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said: "It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality"

That's the reality I have been living in for many years. Just tuning the piano and collecting the check would not be very rewarding in many cases. Lubing key pins and putting teflon on knuckles takes about 5 or 10 minutes. A quick voicing down of the midrange takes about 15-20 minutes, fixing the squeaky pedal, installing some new felt so the pedal doesn't knock on release and adjusting the free play takes about 5 minutes. With LaRoy's let off rack I can do let-off and drop in about 30 minutes or less. It's surprising what you can get done in a couple of hours if you are focused and thoughtful about how to apply your effort. But like anything else it takes years of practice to get good at it. 

And to be clear, I'm not talking about working on beautiful, high-end pianos all the time. My demographics won't allow it. I'm in the trenches slogging my way through plenty of spinets, consoles, and old uprights. "World Class Junk" as Susan might call it! :)

Paid performance? I'm not getting paid to perform, but I see test driving the piano as part of my job. In many cases clients have never heard a serious piece of music played on their home piano. Do many of my clients look forward to that part of the appointment? Of course they do. But it is also very practical as I will often catch minor voicing issues, buzzes, or whatever. 

The whole reason I brought it up was in response to "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?".  The "real world" is that people not only pay the trip fee, they pay a premium for the service appointments. Of course, there are many clients who don't see the value in it and hire the cheapest tuner. But the best clients understand they get what they pay for, and once they experience the difference between "Just a tuning" and full service, they become reliable allies. 

The OP asked how others charge for travel time. Obviously there are many technicians who do not charge. That's a reasonable choice to make. However, charging a modest fee to compensate you for the extra time and expense involved in a commute is also very reasonable as long as the client knows up front what the fee will be. 

David said: "Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?"

Draw the line wherever you want. For me its 20 miles.When Jean books the appointment she's checking on Google maps to see where they are at and quotes them the trip fee. If they are 19 miles away, there is no added fee (its really part of the basic fee). If they are 20 miles away they pay. It's not complicated. It's a policy that we set a number of years ago and we occasionally revise it. 

Raising rates and adjusting fees is a challenging aspect of the business. It's emotional. That's why I'm a strong advocate of doing it in small annual or bi-annual increments. The market will let you know if you are overstepping your limits. If you have never had a trip fee before, it may be hard to introduce it because you are worried how clients will react. The least painful way is to start out small and then creep it up slowly over time. That's a good reason to introduce a trip fee early on in one's career. You'll be able to reap the benefits for many years. 

If 200 appointments over the course of the year bring in a $10 trip fee, that is $2000 of income. That could pay for the PTG conference!





------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 15:45
From: David Love
Subject: Travel Time

As I said, when I drive outside my service area there is a minimum appointment time, usually double, and if it's well outside I charge travel. In my appointment area which encompasses up to about one hour I'm an equal opportunity technician. Everyone gets charged at the same rate though some appointments will certainly be more involved. Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?

I took the discussion to be about developing business.  Meaning people don't yet know that they want you at any cost.  It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality. I have no shortage, so far so good.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 12:42
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said:

          "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?"

The same reason my wife drives an hour North to Seattle to get her hair done. She really likes her stylist and has become loyal. There is risk involved in changing. (its also an excuse for her and her sister to get together for lunch at the Pike's Place Market!)

I often tell people that technicians are like hairdressers. Think about the difference between a barber and a cosmetologist:

"the main distinction between barbers and cosmetologists is that barbers focus specially on hair while cosmetologists work more generally on hair, skin, and nails, concentrating on beauty enhancement.",  study.com/articles/Barber_vs_Cosmetologist_Whats_the_Difference.html

Barbers are the equivalent of the "tune and run" technician. Cosmetologists are the equivalent of the "full service technician" approach. I don't see my job as tuning the piano, I see it as "concentrating on beauty enhancement". That means tuning, tone regulating, lubrication, cleaning etc. My mission statement is to "inspire music making". This also means performing a piece of music for my clients to demonstrate what their instrument is capable of and hopefully inspiring them to spend more time in front of it. When the clients play more, our businesses thrive. 

Whether or not someone is willing to pay an extra $50 to hire you rather than someone closer depends largely on the competition and if you are able to offer something special. Ultimately the market decides.  

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service. 

I do understand what can accomplished in a relatively short period of time but it's not always called for or requested and i don't make work just to line my pockets. I discuss with customers what I think needs doing and if they decide to go ahead I do it. If not I don't. If I'm unhappy with their willingness to do necessary work or their accompanying expectations I walk away.  While I prefer more full service appointments I don't insist. My one hour appointment (mimimum--and my fees are all on my website for everyone to see) allows me time to tune with a second pass unison check, touch up the voicing, lubricate key pins if needed (that takes about 15 seconds), check pedal adjustments, a quick vacuum of the tuning pin area (grand) chat about the kids and go.  I'm ok with that. If it needs more I suggest it and usually they do it or we schedule a follow up. I schedule all appointments for maximim of 1.5 hours (unless I know in advance of additional requirements).  That keeps me on schedule for subsequent appointments.  Sometimes that extra half hour is needed for something broken or necessary and then I just do it and charge accordingly. My hourly fee after the first hour is less.  My first hour fee includes compensation for average travel time. The person who happens to live next door to me pays the same as someone 30 minutes away. I schedule my appointments to minimize driving time between appointments. I have four basic areas in the bay area that i service and I designate certain days for certain areas. People have to work with me that way. If someone requires a special trip on short notice, say a concert, they pay for travel time.  

There was a time when I was doing some university work and developing a lot of customers in an area about 30 miles from me. Now that is one if my busiest areas and I believe that adding travel charges would have been an impediment to that. I realize people are willing to pay more (sometimes) for the person they want but I also know that people are aware of what they pay (and what others pay who use the same tech) and that they expect a level of fairness more than they are sympathetic to my charging them more for an extra  20 minutes of travel.  People are loyal first to quality work but their perception of fair pricing is also a factor, more so when they are unable to discern the difference between your work and someone else's--tough to swallow but can happen. Sure, I think my service work is very good, but many of my colleagues also do fine work and I don't mind referring them to jobs I can't accommodate.  But I really don't want to hear, "hey, you do nice work but Joe doesn't charge me an extra $50 for travel time."

We have a different approach but that was the purpose of the discussion. I agree with those who suggested that one's basic fee should include some amount for expected travel time and save yourself the trouble of trying to calculate miles, or more fairly time.  As I mentioned, more miles isn't always an indicator that more travel time is required.  




------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-15-2017 14:53
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Travel Time

Hmmmm...maybe I'll start doing that. 

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-15-2017 11:14
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said: "It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality"

That's the reality I have been living in for many years. Just tuning the piano and collecting the check would not be very rewarding in many cases. Lubing key pins and putting teflon on knuckles takes about 5 or 10 minutes. A quick voicing down of the midrange takes about 15-20 minutes, fixing the squeaky pedal, installing some new felt so the pedal doesn't knock on release and adjusting the free play takes about 5 minutes. With LaRoy's let off rack I can do let-off and drop in about 30 minutes or less. It's surprising what you can get done in a couple of hours if you are focused and thoughtful about how to apply your effort. But like anything else it takes years of practice to get good at it. 

And to be clear, I'm not talking about working on beautiful, high-end pianos all the time. My demographics won't allow it. I'm in the trenches slogging my way through plenty of spinets, consoles, and old uprights. "World Class Junk" as Susan might call it! :)

Paid performance? I'm not getting paid to perform, but I see test driving the piano as part of my job. In many cases clients have never heard a serious piece of music played on their home piano. Do many of my clients look forward to that part of the appointment? Of course they do. But it is also very practical as I will often catch minor voicing issues, buzzes, or whatever. 

The whole reason I brought it up was in response to "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?".  The "real world" is that people not only pay the trip fee, they pay a premium for the service appointments. Of course, there are many clients who don't see the value in it and hire the cheapest tuner. But the best clients understand they get what they pay for, and once they experience the difference between "Just a tuning" and full service, they become reliable allies. 

The OP asked how others charge for travel time. Obviously there are many technicians who do not charge. That's a reasonable choice to make. However, charging a modest fee to compensate you for the extra time and expense involved in a commute is also very reasonable as long as the client knows up front what the fee will be. 

David said: "Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?"

Draw the line wherever you want. For me its 20 miles.When Jean books the appointment she's checking on Google maps to see where they are at and quotes them the trip fee. If they are 19 miles away, there is no added fee (its really part of the basic fee). If they are 20 miles away they pay. It's not complicated. It's a policy that we set a number of years ago and we occasionally revise it. 

Raising rates and adjusting fees is a challenging aspect of the business. It's emotional. That's why I'm a strong advocate of doing it in small annual or bi-annual increments. The market will let you know if you are overstepping your limits. If you have never had a trip fee before, it may be hard to introduce it because you are worried how clients will react. The least painful way is to start out small and then creep it up slowly over time. That's a good reason to introduce a trip fee early on in one's career. You'll be able to reap the benefits for many years. 

If 200 appointments over the course of the year bring in a $10 trip fee, that is $2000 of income. That could pay for the PTG conference!





------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 15:45
From: David Love
Subject: Travel Time

As I said, when I drive outside my service area there is a minimum appointment time, usually double, and if it's well outside I charge travel. In my appointment area which encompasses up to about one hour I'm an equal opportunity technician. Everyone gets charged at the same rate though some appointments will certainly be more involved. Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?

I took the discussion to be about developing business.  Meaning people don't yet know that they want you at any cost.  It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality. I have no shortage, so far so good.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 12:42
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said:

          "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?"

The same reason my wife drives an hour North to Seattle to get her hair done. She really likes her stylist and has become loyal. There is risk involved in changing. (its also an excuse for her and her sister to get together for lunch at the Pike's Place Market!)

I often tell people that technicians are like hairdressers. Think about the difference between a barber and a cosmetologist:

"the main distinction between barbers and cosmetologists is that barbers focus specially on hair while cosmetologists work more generally on hair, skin, and nails, concentrating on beauty enhancement.",  study.com/articles/Barber_vs_Cosmetologist_Whats_the_Difference.html

Barbers are the equivalent of the "tune and run" technician. Cosmetologists are the equivalent of the "full service technician" approach. I don't see my job as tuning the piano, I see it as "concentrating on beauty enhancement". That means tuning, tone regulating, lubrication, cleaning etc. My mission statement is to "inspire music making". This also means performing a piece of music for my clients to demonstrate what their instrument is capable of and hopefully inspiring them to spend more time in front of it. When the clients play more, our businesses thrive. 

Whether or not someone is willing to pay an extra $50 to hire you rather than someone closer depends largely on the competition and if you are able to offer something special. Ultimately the market decides.  

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service. 

David said:
"As I mentioned, more miles isn't always an indicator that more travel time is required."

I think this I something we really need to be aware of. I live only 20 miles from downtown Honolulu. During non-rush hour time, I can get downtown and back in about 30 minutes. But during the rush hour that same trip can take over an hour, provided there are no accidents. 

By the same token, to go to the North Shore, and around to the East side of the island is about 25 miles, but because it's a 2 lane highway. with a speed limit of 35 mph, it can take over an hour to get to my customers. 

That's why I have one fee for a basic tuning call, no matter where it is. My charge reflects travel time and distance. Sure, I charge the same to my next door neighbor as the church on the other side  of the island. But it all evens out.

------------------------------
Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
Mililani, HI 96789
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-16-2017 02:09
From: David Love
Subject: Travel Time

I do understand what can accomplished in a relatively short period of time but it's not always called for or requested and i don't make work just to line my pockets. I discuss with customers what I think needs doing and if they decide to go ahead I do it. If not I don't. If I'm unhappy with their willingness to do necessary work or their accompanying expectations I walk away.  While I prefer more full service appointments I don't insist. My one hour appointment (mimimum--and my fees are all on my website for everyone to see) allows me time to tune with a second pass unison check, touch up the voicing, lubricate key pins if needed (that takes about 15 seconds), check pedal adjustments, a quick vacuum of the tuning pin area (grand) chat about the kids and go.  I'm ok with that. If it needs more I suggest it and usually they do it or we schedule a follow up. I schedule all appointments for maximim of 1.5 hours (unless I know in advance of additional requirements).  That keeps me on schedule for subsequent appointments.  Sometimes that extra half hour is needed for something broken or necessary and then I just do it and charge accordingly. My hourly fee after the first hour is less.  My first hour fee includes compensation for average travel time. The person who happens to live next door to me pays the same as someone 30 minutes away. I schedule my appointments to minimize driving time between appointments. I have four basic areas in the bay area that i service and I designate certain days for certain areas. People have to work with me that way. If someone requires a special trip on short notice, say a concert, they pay for travel time.  

There was a time when I was doing some university work and developing a lot of customers in an area about 30 miles from me. Now that is one if my busiest areas and I believe that adding travel charges would have been an impediment to that. I realize people are willing to pay more (sometimes) for the person they want but I also know that people are aware of what they pay (and what others pay who use the same tech) and that they expect a level of fairness more than they are sympathetic to my charging them more for an extra  20 minutes of travel.  People are loyal first to quality work but their perception of fair pricing is also a factor, more so when they are unable to discern the difference between your work and someone else's--tough to swallow but can happen. Sure, I think my service work is very good, but many of my colleagues also do fine work and I don't mind referring them to jobs I can't accommodate.  But I really don't want to hear, "hey, you do nice work but Joe doesn't charge me an extra $50 for travel time."

We have a different approach but that was the purpose of the discussion. I agree with those who suggested that one's basic fee should include some amount for expected travel time and save yourself the trouble of trying to calculate miles, or more fairly time.  As I mentioned, more miles isn't always an indicator that more travel time is required.  




------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-15-2017 14:53
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Travel Time

Hmmmm...maybe I'll start doing that. 

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-15-2017 11:14
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said: "It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality"

That's the reality I have been living in for many years. Just tuning the piano and collecting the check would not be very rewarding in many cases. Lubing key pins and putting teflon on knuckles takes about 5 or 10 minutes. A quick voicing down of the midrange takes about 15-20 minutes, fixing the squeaky pedal, installing some new felt so the pedal doesn't knock on release and adjusting the free play takes about 5 minutes. With LaRoy's let off rack I can do let-off and drop in about 30 minutes or less. It's surprising what you can get done in a couple of hours if you are focused and thoughtful about how to apply your effort. But like anything else it takes years of practice to get good at it. 

And to be clear, I'm not talking about working on beautiful, high-end pianos all the time. My demographics won't allow it. I'm in the trenches slogging my way through plenty of spinets, consoles, and old uprights. "World Class Junk" as Susan might call it! :)

Paid performance? I'm not getting paid to perform, but I see test driving the piano as part of my job. In many cases clients have never heard a serious piece of music played on their home piano. Do many of my clients look forward to that part of the appointment? Of course they do. But it is also very practical as I will often catch minor voicing issues, buzzes, or whatever. 

The whole reason I brought it up was in response to "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?".  The "real world" is that people not only pay the trip fee, they pay a premium for the service appointments. Of course, there are many clients who don't see the value in it and hire the cheapest tuner. But the best clients understand they get what they pay for, and once they experience the difference between "Just a tuning" and full service, they become reliable allies. 

The OP asked how others charge for travel time. Obviously there are many technicians who do not charge. That's a reasonable choice to make. However, charging a modest fee to compensate you for the extra time and expense involved in a commute is also very reasonable as long as the client knows up front what the fee will be. 

David said: "Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?"

Draw the line wherever you want. For me its 20 miles.When Jean books the appointment she's checking on Google maps to see where they are at and quotes them the trip fee. If they are 19 miles away, there is no added fee (its really part of the basic fee). If they are 20 miles away they pay. It's not complicated. It's a policy that we set a number of years ago and we occasionally revise it. 

Raising rates and adjusting fees is a challenging aspect of the business. It's emotional. That's why I'm a strong advocate of doing it in small annual or bi-annual increments. The market will let you know if you are overstepping your limits. If you have never had a trip fee before, it may be hard to introduce it because you are worried how clients will react. The least painful way is to start out small and then creep it up slowly over time. That's a good reason to introduce a trip fee early on in one's career. You'll be able to reap the benefits for many years. 

If 200 appointments over the course of the year bring in a $10 trip fee, that is $2000 of income. That could pay for the PTG conference!





------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 15:45
From: David Love
Subject: Travel Time

As I said, when I drive outside my service area there is a minimum appointment time, usually double, and if it's well outside I charge travel. In my appointment area which encompasses up to about one hour I'm an equal opportunity technician. Everyone gets charged at the same rate though some appointments will certainly be more involved. Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?

I took the discussion to be about developing business.  Meaning people don't yet know that they want you at any cost.  It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality. I have no shortage, so far so good.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 12:42
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said:

          "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?"

The same reason my wife drives an hour North to Seattle to get her hair done. She really likes her stylist and has become loyal. There is risk involved in changing. (its also an excuse for her and her sister to get together for lunch at the Pike's Place Market!)

I often tell people that technicians are like hairdressers. Think about the difference between a barber and a cosmetologist:

"the main distinction between barbers and cosmetologists is that barbers focus specially on hair while cosmetologists work more generally on hair, skin, and nails, concentrating on beauty enhancement.",  study.com/articles/Barber_vs_Cosmetologist_Whats_the_Difference.html

Barbers are the equivalent of the "tune and run" technician. Cosmetologists are the equivalent of the "full service technician" approach. I don't see my job as tuning the piano, I see it as "concentrating on beauty enhancement". That means tuning, tone regulating, lubrication, cleaning etc. My mission statement is to "inspire music making". This also means performing a piece of music for my clients to demonstrate what their instrument is capable of and hopefully inspiring them to spend more time in front of it. When the clients play more, our businesses thrive. 

Whether or not someone is willing to pay an extra $50 to hire you rather than someone closer depends largely on the competition and if you are able to offer something special. Ultimately the market decides.  

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service. 

Another consideration is do you charge based on actual time or what it should have taken you to fix it or tune it?  When I did straight aural tuning I found the time could vary much more than now using CT.  Still my tuning fees when I tuned aurally were pretty much flat rate (major pitch corrections were charged extra).  Similarly there are some repairs where I don't necessarily take the most expeditious route for whatever reason. I always give the customer the benefit of the doubt there.  If I spend 10 minutes checking my phone for messages or chatting about little Charlie I don't bill them for that.  So the hourly thing is really what I consider "billable" hours not straight time.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-16-2017 02:09
From: David Love
Subject: Travel Time

I do understand what can accomplished in a relatively short period of time but it's not always called for or requested and i don't make work just to line my pockets. I discuss with customers what I think needs doing and if they decide to go ahead I do it. If not I don't. If I'm unhappy with their willingness to do necessary work or their accompanying expectations I walk away.  While I prefer more full service appointments I don't insist. My one hour appointment (mimimum--and my fees are all on my website for everyone to see) allows me time to tune with a second pass unison check, touch up the voicing, lubricate key pins if needed (that takes about 15 seconds), check pedal adjustments, a quick vacuum of the tuning pin area (grand) chat about the kids and go.  I'm ok with that. If it needs more I suggest it and usually they do it or we schedule a follow up. I schedule all appointments for maximim of 1.5 hours (unless I know in advance of additional requirements).  That keeps me on schedule for subsequent appointments.  Sometimes that extra half hour is needed for something broken or necessary and then I just do it and charge accordingly. My hourly fee after the first hour is less.  My first hour fee includes compensation for average travel time. The person who happens to live next door to me pays the same as someone 30 minutes away. I schedule my appointments to minimize driving time between appointments. I have four basic areas in the bay area that i service and I designate certain days for certain areas. People have to work with me that way. If someone requires a special trip on short notice, say a concert, they pay for travel time.  

There was a time when I was doing some university work and developing a lot of customers in an area about 30 miles from me. Now that is one if my busiest areas and I believe that adding travel charges would have been an impediment to that. I realize people are willing to pay more (sometimes) for the person they want but I also know that people are aware of what they pay (and what others pay who use the same tech) and that they expect a level of fairness more than they are sympathetic to my charging them more for an extra  20 minutes of travel.  People are loyal first to quality work but their perception of fair pricing is also a factor, more so when they are unable to discern the difference between your work and someone else's--tough to swallow but can happen. Sure, I think my service work is very good, but many of my colleagues also do fine work and I don't mind referring them to jobs I can't accommodate.  But I really don't want to hear, "hey, you do nice work but Joe doesn't charge me an extra $50 for travel time."

We have a different approach but that was the purpose of the discussion. I agree with those who suggested that one's basic fee should include some amount for expected travel time and save yourself the trouble of trying to calculate miles, or more fairly time.  As I mentioned, more miles isn't always an indicator that more travel time is required.  




------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-15-2017 14:53
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Travel Time

Hmmmm...maybe I'll start doing that. 

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-15-2017 11:14
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said: "It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality"

That's the reality I have been living in for many years. Just tuning the piano and collecting the check would not be very rewarding in many cases. Lubing key pins and putting teflon on knuckles takes about 5 or 10 minutes. A quick voicing down of the midrange takes about 15-20 minutes, fixing the squeaky pedal, installing some new felt so the pedal doesn't knock on release and adjusting the free play takes about 5 minutes. With LaRoy's let off rack I can do let-off and drop in about 30 minutes or less. It's surprising what you can get done in a couple of hours if you are focused and thoughtful about how to apply your effort. But like anything else it takes years of practice to get good at it. 

And to be clear, I'm not talking about working on beautiful, high-end pianos all the time. My demographics won't allow it. I'm in the trenches slogging my way through plenty of spinets, consoles, and old uprights. "World Class Junk" as Susan might call it! :)

Paid performance? I'm not getting paid to perform, but I see test driving the piano as part of my job. In many cases clients have never heard a serious piece of music played on their home piano. Do many of my clients look forward to that part of the appointment? Of course they do. But it is also very practical as I will often catch minor voicing issues, buzzes, or whatever. 

The whole reason I brought it up was in response to "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?".  The "real world" is that people not only pay the trip fee, they pay a premium for the service appointments. Of course, there are many clients who don't see the value in it and hire the cheapest tuner. But the best clients understand they get what they pay for, and once they experience the difference between "Just a tuning" and full service, they become reliable allies. 

The OP asked how others charge for travel time. Obviously there are many technicians who do not charge. That's a reasonable choice to make. However, charging a modest fee to compensate you for the extra time and expense involved in a commute is also very reasonable as long as the client knows up front what the fee will be. 

David said: "Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?"

Draw the line wherever you want. For me its 20 miles.When Jean books the appointment she's checking on Google maps to see where they are at and quotes them the trip fee. If they are 19 miles away, there is no added fee (its really part of the basic fee). If they are 20 miles away they pay. It's not complicated. It's a policy that we set a number of years ago and we occasionally revise it. 

Raising rates and adjusting fees is a challenging aspect of the business. It's emotional. That's why I'm a strong advocate of doing it in small annual or bi-annual increments. The market will let you know if you are overstepping your limits. If you have never had a trip fee before, it may be hard to introduce it because you are worried how clients will react. The least painful way is to start out small and then creep it up slowly over time. That's a good reason to introduce a trip fee early on in one's career. You'll be able to reap the benefits for many years. 

If 200 appointments over the course of the year bring in a $10 trip fee, that is $2000 of income. That could pay for the PTG conference!





------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 15:45
From: David Love
Subject: Travel Time

As I said, when I drive outside my service area there is a minimum appointment time, usually double, and if it's well outside I charge travel. In my appointment area which encompasses up to about one hour I'm an equal opportunity technician. Everyone gets charged at the same rate though some appointments will certainly be more involved. Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?

I took the discussion to be about developing business.  Meaning people don't yet know that they want you at any cost.  It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality. I have no shortage, so far so good.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 12:42
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said:

          "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?"

The same reason my wife drives an hour North to Seattle to get her hair done. She really likes her stylist and has become loyal. There is risk involved in changing. (its also an excuse for her and her sister to get together for lunch at the Pike's Place Market!)

I often tell people that technicians are like hairdressers. Think about the difference between a barber and a cosmetologist:

"the main distinction between barbers and cosmetologists is that barbers focus specially on hair while cosmetologists work more generally on hair, skin, and nails, concentrating on beauty enhancement.",  study.com/articles/Barber_vs_Cosmetologist_Whats_the_Difference.html

Barbers are the equivalent of the "tune and run" technician. Cosmetologists are the equivalent of the "full service technician" approach. I don't see my job as tuning the piano, I see it as "concentrating on beauty enhancement". That means tuning, tone regulating, lubrication, cleaning etc. My mission statement is to "inspire music making". This also means performing a piece of music for my clients to demonstrate what their instrument is capable of and hopefully inspiring them to spend more time in front of it. When the clients play more, our businesses thrive. 

Whether or not someone is willing to pay an extra $50 to hire you rather than someone closer depends largely on the competition and if you are able to offer something special. Ultimately the market decides.  

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service. 

Ryan Sowers wrote:

If 200 appointments over the course of the year bring in a $10 trip fee, that is $2000 of income. That could pay for the PTG conference!


Final thought. Yes but if you just charged everyone and extra $5 you'd probably bring in $4000 and not have to hassle it.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-15-2017 11:14
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said: "It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality"

That's the reality I have been living in for many years. Just tuning the piano and collecting the check would not be very rewarding in many cases. Lubing key pins and putting teflon on knuckles takes about 5 or 10 minutes. A quick voicing down of the midrange takes about 15-20 minutes, fixing the squeaky pedal, installing some new felt so the pedal doesn't knock on release and adjusting the free play takes about 5 minutes. With LaRoy's let off rack I can do let-off and drop in about 30 minutes or less. It's surprising what you can get done in a couple of hours if you are focused and thoughtful about how to apply your effort. But like anything else it takes years of practice to get good at it. 

And to be clear, I'm not talking about working on beautiful, high-end pianos all the time. My demographics won't allow it. I'm in the trenches slogging my way through plenty of spinets, consoles, and old uprights. "World Class Junk" as Susan might call it! :)

Paid performance? I'm not getting paid to perform, but I see test driving the piano as part of my job. In many cases clients have never heard a serious piece of music played on their home piano. Do many of my clients look forward to that part of the appointment? Of course they do. But it is also very practical as I will often catch minor voicing issues, buzzes, or whatever. 

The whole reason I brought it up was in response to "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?".  The "real world" is that people not only pay the trip fee, they pay a premium for the service appointments. Of course, there are many clients who don't see the value in it and hire the cheapest tuner. But the best clients understand they get what they pay for, and once they experience the difference between "Just a tuning" and full service, they become reliable allies. 

The OP asked how others charge for travel time. Obviously there are many technicians who do not charge. That's a reasonable choice to make. However, charging a modest fee to compensate you for the extra time and expense involved in a commute is also very reasonable as long as the client knows up front what the fee will be. 

David said: "Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?"

Draw the line wherever you want. For me its 20 miles.When Jean books the appointment she's checking on Google maps to see where they are at and quotes them the trip fee. If they are 19 miles away, there is no added fee (its really part of the basic fee). If they are 20 miles away they pay. It's not complicated. It's a policy that we set a number of years ago and we occasionally revise it. 

Raising rates and adjusting fees is a challenging aspect of the business. It's emotional. That's why I'm a strong advocate of doing it in small annual or bi-annual increments. The market will let you know if you are overstepping your limits. If you have never had a trip fee before, it may be hard to introduce it because you are worried how clients will react. The least painful way is to start out small and then creep it up slowly over time. That's a good reason to introduce a trip fee early on in one's career. You'll be able to reap the benefits for many years. 

If 200 appointments over the course of the year bring in a $10 trip fee, that is $2000 of income. That could pay for the PTG conference!





------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 15:45
From: David Love
Subject: Travel Time

As I said, when I drive outside my service area there is a minimum appointment time, usually double, and if it's well outside I charge travel. In my appointment area which encompasses up to about one hour I'm an equal opportunity technician. Everyone gets charged at the same rate though some appointments will certainly be more involved. Problem is where do you draw the line for charging for travel, 20 minutes, thirty, forty five?

I took the discussion to be about developing business.  Meaning people don't yet know that they want you at any cost.  It would be nice if every appointment called for full service: tuning, regulation, voicing, lubrication, case polishing and a paid performance, then there's reality. I have no shortage, so far so good.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 12:42
From: Ryan Sowers
Subject: Travel Time

David Love Said:

          "Why would someone want to pay me an extra $50 rather than just hire someone closer?"

The same reason my wife drives an hour North to Seattle to get her hair done. She really likes her stylist and has become loyal. There is risk involved in changing. (its also an excuse for her and her sister to get together for lunch at the Pike's Place Market!)

I often tell people that technicians are like hairdressers. Think about the difference between a barber and a cosmetologist:

"the main distinction between barbers and cosmetologists is that barbers focus specially on hair while cosmetologists work more generally on hair, skin, and nails, concentrating on beauty enhancement.",  study.com/articles/Barber_vs_Cosmetologist_Whats_the_Difference.html

Barbers are the equivalent of the "tune and run" technician. Cosmetologists are the equivalent of the "full service technician" approach. I don't see my job as tuning the piano, I see it as "concentrating on beauty enhancement". That means tuning, tone regulating, lubrication, cleaning etc. My mission statement is to "inspire music making". This also means performing a piece of music for my clients to demonstrate what their instrument is capable of and hopefully inspiring them to spend more time in front of it. When the clients play more, our businesses thrive. 

Whether or not someone is willing to pay an extra $50 to hire you rather than someone closer depends largely on the competition and if you are able to offer something special. Ultimately the market decides.  

------------------------------
Ryan Sowers
Olympia WA
360-705-4160
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service. 

I enjoyed reading through this thread, especially since in the DC area it can take 30 minutes or 3 hours to get to/from the same place, depending on the congestion alone.

I don't agree with the notion that it's a sign you may not be charging enough for your tuning, although it is possible. I'm more of the opinion that it's a sign that good piano technicians are hard to find, and decreasing in numbers dramatically. (Ever think about how many technicians there were in the US at the height of American piano production?)

I have initiated an increase in charges where more travel time is involved. For instance, a tuning in VA costs $15 more than a tuning in MD or DC. I'm inclined to go even further in the coming months and charge the higher rate for anywhere outside the county. Now if your counties are spread far, like most things in Texas you might want to adopt Ryan's solution of outside 20 miles = $x more. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Because after all, a tuning is a tuning, and outside of pitch raises, I think there is a limit to what is reasonable to charge for the tuning itself. Although I must say that some tuning rates are stuck in a bygone era, which can be bad for the trade.

You could also go the way of some highly respected techs and institute a general appointment fee, which includes tuning, and say, cleaning the case, adjusting the pedals, fixing small issues. But you'll have to make sure you have enough time for a few extras.

We all do a little of what is referred to as "dollar cost averaging" where the same amount is charged for different circumstances. It's similar to purchasing shares of the same stock over time, even though the price may be a little higher or lower.

My only real advice here is if you arrive home exhausted, or feeling like the travel time wasn't worth the pay, it's definitely time for an adjustment of some kind. I've heard a number of what I thought to be reasonable solutions. Keep in mind you have specialized skills, and that is worth a lot.

Like Geoff I have that client who lives too far away, but I go anyway because I like the client. Most people like that are willing to pay whatever you ask really, and I usually charge less than I probably should.

Good luck. I'd be interested to hear what you settle on.

Elizabeth


Original Message------

Ryan Sowers wrote:

If 200 appointments over the course of the year bring in a $10 trip fee, that is $2000 of income. That could pay for the PTG conference!


Final thought. Yes but if you just charged everyone and extra $5 you'd probably bring in $4000 and not have to hassle it.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Hi Elizabeth,

You wrote:
"I think there is a limit to what is reasonable to charge for the tuning itself."

And what would that limit be? Isn't that limit determined by "what the market will bear?" One colleague (who has the highest tuning fee in my area) was advised by his accountant that if at least one in three potential clients are not turing him down because he is too expensive--his sterling reputation not withstanding--then he is not charging enough. 

At the end of the day, we are proffering for sale pieces of our lives. I don't know about you, but that's pretty precious to me.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-19-2017 10:48
From: Elizabeth Pearson
Subject: Travel Time

I enjoyed reading through this thread, especially since in the DC area it can take 30 minutes or 3 hours to get to/from the same place, depending on the congestion alone.

I don't agree with the notion that it's a sign you may not be charging enough for your tuning, although it is possible. I'm more of the opinion that it's a sign that good piano technicians are hard to find, and decreasing in numbers dramatically. (Ever think about how many technicians there were in the US at the height of American piano production?)

I have initiated an increase in charges where more travel time is involved. For instance, a tuning in VA costs $15 more than a tuning in MD or DC. I'm inclined to go even further in the coming months and charge the higher rate for anywhere outside the county. Now if your counties are spread far, like most things in Texas you might want to adopt Ryan's solution of outside 20 miles = $x more. Sounds like a good idea to me.

Because after all, a tuning is a tuning, and outside of pitch raises, I think there is a limit to what is reasonable to charge for the tuning itself. Although I must say that some tuning rates are stuck in a bygone era, which can be bad for the trade.

You could also go the way of some highly respected techs and institute a general appointment fee, which includes tuning, and say, cleaning the case, adjusting the pedals, fixing small issues. But you'll have to make sure you have enough time for a few extras.

We all do a little of what is referred to as "dollar cost averaging" where the same amount is charged for different circumstances. It's similar to purchasing shares of the same stock over time, even though the price may be a little higher or lower.

My only real advice here is if you arrive home exhausted, or feeling like the travel time wasn't worth the pay, it's definitely time for an adjustment of some kind. I've heard a number of what I thought to be reasonable solutions. Keep in mind you have specialized skills, and that is worth a lot.

Like Geoff I have that client who lives too far away, but I go anyway because I like the client. Most people like that are willing to pay whatever you ask really, and I usually charge less than I probably should.

Good luck. I'd be interested to hear what you settle on.

Elizabeth

Alan

Excellent point. And it's not only pieces of our lives, but wear and tear on our bodies and our hearing.
Granted too, clients are handing us a piece of their lives when they write a check.

I was referring to what the market will bear, but if the housing market is any indication, people will pay far more than what they're buying is worth. I'm certainly not opposed to a piano technology bubble. :o)

Hope you're well.
Elizabeth


Original Message------

Hi Elizabeth,

You wrote:
"I think there is a limit to what is reasonable to charge for the tuning itself."

And what would that limit be? Isn't that limit determined by "what the market will bear?" One colleague (who has the highest tuning fee in my area) was advised by his accountant that if at least one in three potential clients are not turing him down because he is too expensive--his sterling reputation not withstanding--then he is not charging enough. 

At the end of the day, we are proffering for sale pieces of our lives. I don't know about you, but that's pretty precious to me.

Alan

------------------------------
Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
------------------------------

What you charge is less important than how you charge. Sometimes you can charge $100 for a 20 minute job, and sometimes you make $50 for one hour. What matters is your average hourly rate. 

For instance, charging someone $150 for a service and $100 for travel doesn't sound as good as charging for a $250 service and not charging for travel. 

We basically have 4 levels of service, and if someone is farther away and I don't have any other appointments that day in that area, I charge them for a more extensive service. I spend the minimum amount of time required for the service for which they paid, so they're  not paying extra, they simply do not have the option of having our basic service performed. 

Does that make sense? 

Now if om I'm doing a two day trip for a Disklavier upgrade in the sticks somewhere, that's different. Ping me directly if you have any questions regarding pricing in this regard. It's really a marketing and management question, but we tend to get mired in income problems.

------------------------------
Vincent Chambers
Chico CA
530-924-4469
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service. 

Yes, I think that makes sense.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-16-2017 21:04
From: Vincent Chambers
Subject: Travel Time

What you charge is less important than how you charge. Sometimes you can charge $100 for a 20 minute job, and sometimes you make $50 for one hour. What matters is your average hourly rate. 

For instance, charging someone $150 for a service and $100 for travel doesn't sound as good as charging for a $250 service and not charging for travel. 

We basically have 4 levels of service, and if someone is farther away and I don't have any other appointments that day in that area, I charge them for a more extensive service. I spend the minimum amount of time required for the service for which they paid, so they're  not paying extra, they simply do not have the option of having our basic service performed. 

Does that make sense? 

Now if om I'm doing a two day trip for a Disklavier upgrade in the sticks somewhere, that's different. Ping me directly if you have any questions regarding pricing in this regard. It's really a marketing and management question, but we tend to get mired in income problems.

------------------------------
Vincent Chambers
Chico CA
530-924-4469
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service. 

I appreciate the feedback. I usually expect to address issues other than tuning at my appointments, such as sticking keys, squeaky pedals, etc without charging extra. Routine maintenance is part of my "service" call. Not just a tuning. I know tuners who charge extra if they do ANYTHING other than a tuning. If I have to pull an action, it doesn't necessarily mean extra charge. It depends on the problem and the time involved for the solution. 

I'm curious how anyone can lube the key pins in 15 seconds. Sure, spraying McLube on the pins only takes seconds. But does that include on a grand, pulling the action, removing the upstop rail, removing the stack, and removing the keys first? Sometimes the grand has a keyslip with screws, or the extra little wooden blocks with two screws each underneath the cheek blocks, or the fall board may have the tiny screws holding it in place. I assume you already have all the disassembly before calculating your time to lube the keypins.

I do indeed try to work quickly and often can adjust let-off and drop in about 15 or 20 minutes. Other regulation adjustments can be touched up fairly quickly. I like to allow up to 2 hours for a call, with an average of an hour and 15 minutes for tuning.

------------------------------
Jeff Farris
Austin TX
512-636-1914
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-17-2017 02:48
From: David Love
Subject: Travel Time

Yes, I think that makes sense.

------------------------------
David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-16-2017 21:04
From: Vincent Chambers
Subject: Travel Time

What you charge is less important than how you charge. Sometimes you can charge $100 for a 20 minute job, and sometimes you make $50 for one hour. What matters is your average hourly rate. 

For instance, charging someone $150 for a service and $100 for travel doesn't sound as good as charging for a $250 service and not charging for travel. 

We basically have 4 levels of service, and if someone is farther away and I don't have any other appointments that day in that area, I charge them for a more extensive service. I spend the minimum amount of time required for the service for which they paid, so they're  not paying extra, they simply do not have the option of having our basic service performed. 

Does that make sense? 

Now if om I'm doing a two day trip for a Disklavier upgrade in the sticks somewhere, that's different. Ping me directly if you have any questions regarding pricing in this regard. It's really a marketing and management question, but we tend to get mired in income problems.

------------------------------
Vincent Chambers
Chico CA
530-924-4469
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 04-13-2017 09:08
From: Robert Highfield
Subject: Travel Time

Travel time is one thing that is part of the job. Unlike a beauty or barber shop folks don't bring their pianos into the shop for monthly tunings.  We are a "come to your location" service every six months or year. We knew that when we got into this occupation. 

They nice thing about being in the Austin area is gas is free at around $2.07 a gallon where as here in Pennsylvania it is now around $2.56 a gallon for regular. The nice thing about tuning for a school, church, college, arts association is once you are there you can walk from piano to piano they want you to service.