I've been pondering David's concerns, and think it's best to post some details and caveats about this technique.
The first photo shows three needles, the phono needle on the left and two compass needles. (The squares are about 5mm)
As I understand this approach, the relative bluntness of the phono needle prevents a deep penetration on a hard hammer, The wool fibers pressure stops the needle from going far into the hammer...assuming the technician is paying attention and calibrating the strength of the stroke. If the hammer is not resisting the phono needle, it is too soft for this technique.
The compass needles are sharper, and they scare me, I wouldn't use them. I believe the phono needles do slight lateral movements of the wool fiber, more at the top surface, less at the point of the needle, which is why they produce a gradation of hardness in the felt.
But to be sure, I'd suggest using the pin vise surface as a depth gauge (second photo) here set at 1.5mm, which might be used around the tenor break, lightening up into the treble and tapering to nothing by the top notes. i.e. lighter touch and fewer strokes.
I've used this approach for quick and economical voicing of pianos that have hard hammers, and for pianos that have reverted to harsh brightness after gentler needling. It has been very useful in new practice room and studio pianos which only get a few hours attention each year.
If anyone has experienced hammer damage after this approach, I'd like to hear about it.
By the way, I think Phil has solved his problem with some chopstick voicing.
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Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com(980) 254-7413
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-25-2017 01:29
From: David Love
Subject: Voicing back the C7
Maybe, but the nature of the tool itself is aggressive and destructive. If you want a lighter treatment I'd use a smaller needle.
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David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-24-2017 17:53
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Voicing back the C7
It's up to the hand that controls the needle, and the mind that controls the hand.
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Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-24-2017 11:50
From: David Love
Subject: Voicing back the C7
I would be very cautious with that approach (compass points have typically been used for this). It's very aggressive (read destructive) and I would say reserved for hammers that are otherwise impossible to deal with. Generally speaking this is not a technique I would use on a Yamaha hammer which will respond to more conventional voicing techniques. It's a technique reserved for desperation when the overall health of the hammer is of no concern.
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David Love RPT
www.davidlovepianos.com
davidlovepianos@comcast.net
415 407 8320
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-24-2017 09:03
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Voicing back the C7
What I'm sending Phil is a few steel 78 rpm phono needles. Cheap from Amazon. He will need to buy the General Pin Vise.
I use them in a sugar coating technique, followed by pounding the surface with the back end of the pin vise.
The phono needles are broader than a sewing needle, they have a more obtuse profile. Because of this they spread the wool fibers wider at the surface of the hammer, less so as the needle penetrates to its point. Then pounding seems to massage the fibers into a blended consistency, more flexible on the surface, getting tougher going into the hammer. David Stanwood uses a small ball peen hammer; I use a cap bolt on the tail of my voicing tool.
As far as I know, David Stanwood invented this. I learned it second hand from John Foy, and have waited several years for them to publish it.
If you support the hammer tails on a voicing block and squeeze 3 or 4 hammers together, you can pound quickly with the needle and not tear through the sides of the hammers. Don't wory about aiming for the string grooves, count your strokes, trying to put about the same to each hammer, tapering off for smaller hammers, or where you want to make less change.
I don't think this is a technique for NY Steinway hammers, but it usually gets a range of tone from hard pressed hammers.
I'll try to send photos or video next week.
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Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-23-2017 22:38
From: Alan Eder
Subject: Voicing back the C7
Phil wrote:
"Ed is sending me some hardware to deal with this problem as well."
Please let us in on what Ed sends you, and how it works out.
Thanks,
Alan
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Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-23-2017 22:33
From: Phil Bondi
Subject: Voicing back the C7
Hi everyone. Thanks for the replies.
Geoff, I can't agree more, but sound reinforcement for this room is something I need to deal with. The other pianos(2 Steinway D's) that occasionally get used and mic-ed in that room do not have the same affect as this Yamaha.
Jim, I like your idea and will give it a try. Ed is sending me some hardware to deal with this problem as well.
Thanks again. I will let you know the results. I'll get some time with it again next week and post the results and methods used.
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-Phil Bondi
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Original Message:
Sent: 02-23-2017 19:42
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Voicing back the C7
Geoff,
I agree. All kind of undesirable noise is generated with the lid down. I have several customers who play with the lid down. I always ask myself why they invested in a grand piano rather than an upright who's internal tonal clashes are equal.
Roger