Pianotech

The issue as to how to address tight flange bushings has come up numerous times over the years. Last week I was called to tune a 15 year old Kohler and Campbell by Samick. About 20% of the hammer shank bushings were so tight they held the shank at a 45 degree angle. When I encounter bushing that tight I will re-pin them, but I decided to try the 50/50 alcohol/water solution on all the bushing. I returned today to tune the piano and all the bushing were free with about 5 swings.
Roger

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Roger Gable
Gable Piano
Everett WA
425-252-5000
------------------------------

Hi Roger:
My experience is, if there's any residual moisture around, they'll be right back tight as ever. Shrinking works, but isn't always permanent. I hope your experience is different and they stay free.
Best,
Paul McCloud
San Diego

< The issue as to how to address tight flange bushings has come up numerous times over the years. Last week I was called to tune a 15 year old Kohler and Campbell by Samick. About 20% of the hammer shank bushings were so tight they held the shank at a 45 degree angle. When I encounter bushing that tight I will re-pin them, but I decided to try the 50/50 alcohol/water solution on all the bushing. I returned today to tune the piano and all the bushing were free with about 5 swings.
Roger
>


Original Message------

The issue as to how to address tight flange bushings has come up numerous times over the years. Last week I was called to tune a 15 year old Kohler and Campbell by Samick. About 20% of the hammer shank bushings were so tight they held the shank at a 45 degree angle. When I encounter bushing that tight I will re-pin them, but I decided to try the 50/50 alcohol/water solution on all the bushing. I returned today to tune the piano and all the bushing were free with about 5 swings.
Roger

------------------------------
Roger Gable
Gable Piano
Everett WA
425-252-5000
------------------------------

Original Message------

Hi Roger:
My experience is, if there's any residual moisture around, they'll be right back tight as ever. Shrinking works, but isn't always permanent. I hope your experience is different and they stay free.
Best,
Paul McCloud
San Diego

< The issue as to how to address tight flange bushings has come up numerous times over the years. Last week I was called to tune a 15 year old Kohler and Campbell by Samick. About 20% of the hammer shank bushings were so tight they held the shank at a 45 degree angle. When I encounter bushing that tight I will re-pin them, but I decided to try the 50/50 alcohol/water solution on all the bushing. I returned today to tune the piano and all the bushing were free with about 5 swings.
Roger
>

Original Message------

Paul,

The A/W does not shrink the felt but rather compresses the felt and seizing the bushing against the pin. After a period of time (about 6 – 8 hours) the alcohol evacuates the water leaving the felt in a state of sized compression. This would be equivalent to ironing the felt.

Roger

Hi Roger:
I used to work for a dealer. We had a couple of brands that had chronic problems with flange friction. I tried to size the bushings with A/W. It would work long enough to get the action back in the home, only to get a callback shortly thereafter. Whatever the reason, these actions would not stay free unless the bushings were reamed out and repinned. Don's answer here is the most comprehensive, so I'll second what he said. Another thing is, if your first shrink doesn't work so well, use some Protek before you douse it again with a stronger mix. I've had them get too loose. Often Protek is just the thing to free those centers after using A&W and they are still too tight.
Good luck
Paul McCloud


Original Message------

Paul,

The A/W does not shrink the felt but rather compresses the felt and seizing the bushing against the pin. After a period of time (about 6 – 8 hours) the alcohol evacuates the water leaving the felt in a state of sized compression. This would be equivalent to ironing the felt.

Roger

I completely agree Paul. As Don and others have said, it (A&W) is just one technique and another "tool" to be used judiciously. 
My primary message has been to help "spread the word" that this IS a legit tool and CAN BE a huge help and can be quite effective. And techs do not need to fear trying it/using it IN SOME CASES. 
IMPORTANT: always alwsys always communicate properly when dealing with customers. I tell them that there is always a chance we would have to follow up and that this is not a "cure-all". I write it on the ticket and have them initial usually. I've never had a call-back or complaint in the past 15 years using it "judiciously".  
WHEN SHOULD THIS BE USED: typically this is Excellent for church/school pianos that have been neglected. I've had much success all over Texas with this for years.

Also, when downtime just HAS TO BE MINIMIZED. Example from a recent situation: one of our top piano professors Steinway L--recenltly rebuilt had sticking/sluggish hammer flanges and then underlevers soon thereafter. (All Renner) Down time not an option. I repinned a few really bad ones, applied the A& W solution, alowed to dry overnight and the prof was back in business. I followed up OF COURSE but the problem was about 95% solved and that was anout 4 years ago. 

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-20-2017 22:02
From: Paul McCloud
Subject: Alcohol & Water

Hi Roger:
I used to work for a dealer. We had a couple of brands that had chronic problems with flange friction. I tried to size the bushings with A/W. It would work long enough to get the action back in the home, only to get a callback shortly thereafter. Whatever the reason, these actions would not stay free unless the bushings were reamed out and repinned. Don's answer here is the most comprehensive, so I'll second what he said. Another thing is, if your first shrink doesn't work so well, use some Protek before you douse it again with a stronger mix. I've had them get too loose. Often Protek is just the thing to free those centers after using A&W and they are still too tight.
Good luck
Paul McCloud

Original Message------

The issue as to how to address tight flange bushings has come up numerous times over the years. Last week I was called to tune a 15 year old Kohler and Campbell by Samick. About 20% of the hammer shank bushings were so tight they held the shank at a 45 degree angle. When I encounter bushing that tight I will re-pin them, but I decided to try the 50/50 alcohol/water solution on all the bushing. I returned today to tune the piano and all the bushing were free with about 5 swings.
Roger

------------------------------
Roger Gable
Gable Piano
Everett WA
425-252-5000
------------------------------

It seems that the issue of tight flange pins is slightly more complex than just a lack of lubrication or swollen wood/bushings.

I have personally never observed flaking plating (though I don't deny it).  I have repinned many Young Chang and a few Samicks that had pins coated with a thick, tough coating of what I assume to be residual glue from assembly of the flange. (Especially Young Chang damper levers).

When I worked at Samick we advised reaming and repinning.

If the production techniques of the manufacturers involved using pre-glued bushing cloth that the flange was strung onto, then heated (microwaved?) to melt and attach the glue some of the glue can exude into the center pin hole and adhere to the pin. If this occurred then only reaming the flange and repining would work to remove the remaining glue, though lubricants might work temporarily. 

Any solvent that removed the glue would remove glue from the outside of the bushing or might redistribute the glue into the felt more thoroughly.  Replacing the flange might be the only complete cure.

------------------------------
Blaine Hebert
Duarte CA
626-795-5170
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-20-2017 18:33
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Alcohol & Water

The issue as to how to address tight flange bushings has come up numerous times over the years. Last week I was called to tune a 15 year old Kohler and Campbell by Samick. About 20% of the hammer shank bushings were so tight they held the shank at a 45 degree angle. When I encounter bushing that tight I will re-pin them, but I decided to try the 50/50 alcohol/water solution on all the bushing. I returned today to tune the piano and all the bushing were free with about 5 swings.
Roger

------------------------------
Roger Gable
Gable Piano
Everett WA
425-252-5000
------------------------------

There is no way any manufacturer could survive without improving in an area where such a quality control issue existed. The pianos have a 10 year warranty as I recall. I repinned most if not all action centers in a Samick action recently, back action or damper rack included, and the dealer volunteered to pay for it. This plant would close without rectifying the problem. 

With a piano for that price, I had to wrestle with the task of who to bill. I have since abandoned the client over fixing a peeling soundboard decal on the same piano buzzing as it contacted strings. I stopped feeling sorry for him.

Who is liable?

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-21-2017 01:18
From: Blaine Hebert
Subject: Alcohol & Water

It seems that the issue of tight flange pins is slightly more complex than just a lack of lubrication or swollen wood/bushings.

I have personally never observed flaking plating (though I don't deny it).  I have repinned many Young Chang and a few Samicks that had pins coated with a thick, tough coating of what I assume to be residual glue from assembly of the flange. (Especially Young Chang damper levers).

When I worked at Samick we advised reaming and repinning.

If the production techniques of the manufacturers involved using pre-glued bushing cloth that the flange was strung onto, then heated (microwaved?) to melt and attach the glue some of the glue can exude into the center pin hole and adhere to the pin. If this occurred then only reaming the flange and repining would work to remove the remaining glue, though lubricants might work temporarily. 

Any solvent that removed the glue would remove glue from the outside of the bushing or might redistribute the glue into the felt more thoroughly.  Replacing the flange might be the only complete cure.

------------------------------
Blaine Hebert
Duarte CA
626-795-5170
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-20-2017 18:33
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Alcohol & Water

The issue as to how to address tight flange bushings has come up numerous times over the years. Last week I was called to tune a 15 year old Kohler and Campbell by Samick. About 20% of the hammer shank bushings were so tight they held the shank at a 45 degree angle. When I encounter bushing that tight I will re-pin them, but I decided to try the 50/50 alcohol/water solution on all the bushing. I returned today to tune the piano and all the bushing were free with about 5 swings.
Roger

------------------------------
Roger Gable
Gable Piano
Everett WA
425-252-5000
------------------------------

I think it's important to note that before using this treatment one's first step should be to sample the flanges first.  The pinning on the hammer, whippen and jack flanges should not be assumed to be equal.   Ideally, the hammers would have been pinned tighter to begin with, with the jack centers being the loosest, and the whippens somewhere in between.  In actuality, I often find instances of one set of centers being sluggish while the others are not contributing to the problem.  Usually, it's the hammer centers, but don't assume that because they're sluggish you should go ahead and soak the whippens and jacks as well.   Applying alcohol and water to a set of flanges that is already free will do more harm than good.
This treatment works best on pianos where the bushing cloth was not properly sized (i.e. pre-shrunk) to begin with, which is to say, some American-made verticals from around 1945 through 1970.  It won't do a bit of good on either early Steinways with verdigris or the aforementioned Korean makes.
I have found this treatment to be much more effective if applied in conjunction with heat.  Heating the action shrinks the wool more effectively (Have you ever mistakenly washed a wool sweater in hot water?), and expands the diameter of the pin to iron the bushing cloth.
 I cover the action and use a hair dryer to get the temperature up to 140 degrees F and work the centers through their range of motion while they're hot.  After the action sits overnight I go through the flanges again to make sure they're all free.  Sometimes, if they're borderline or in a suspect environment I will subsequently treat the action with a solution of dimethyl silicone lubricant mixed 1/10 with VMP naphtha.
 If I have treated, for instance, the hammer flange centers with A/W but not the jacks, I will use the silicone/naptha on them, since it will not unduly loosen them and might, I think, make them less likely to soak up moisture in the future. 
 I view repinning as a last resort.  It's not that I dislike repinning.  It's certainly the surest remedy, but it's a lot more time-consuming.
Heating the action, while effective, is not without its drawbacks.  It will loosen all the action screws.  If the hammer flange screws were loose begin with, it might be worthwhile to tighten them both before and after heating, so they won't be quite so bad when it comes to realigning the hammers to the strings.  At the least, you'll have to check this on reinstalling the action.


------------------------------
Cecil Snyder
Torrance CA
310-542-7108
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-21-2017 08:58
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: Alcohol & Water

There is no way any manufacturer could survive without improving in an area where such a quality control issue existed. The pianos have a 10 year warranty as I recall. I repinned most if not all action centers in a Samick action recently, back action or damper rack included, and the dealer volunteered to pay for it. This plant would close without rectifying the problem. 

With a piano for that price, I had to wrestle with the task of who to bill. I have since abandoned the client over fixing a peeling soundboard decal on the same piano buzzing as it contacted strings. I stopped feeling sorry for him.

Who is liable?

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-21-2017 01:18
From: Blaine Hebert
Subject: Alcohol & Water

It seems that the issue of tight flange pins is slightly more complex than just a lack of lubrication or swollen wood/bushings.

I have personally never observed flaking plating (though I don't deny it).  I have repinned many Young Chang and a few Samicks that had pins coated with a thick, tough coating of what I assume to be residual glue from assembly of the flange. (Especially Young Chang damper levers).

When I worked at Samick we advised reaming and repinning.

If the production techniques of the manufacturers involved using pre-glued bushing cloth that the flange was strung onto, then heated (microwaved?) to melt and attach the glue some of the glue can exude into the center pin hole and adhere to the pin. If this occurred then only reaming the flange and repining would work to remove the remaining glue, though lubricants might work temporarily. 

Any solvent that removed the glue would remove glue from the outside of the bushing or might redistribute the glue into the felt more thoroughly.  Replacing the flange might be the only complete cure.

------------------------------
Blaine Hebert
Duarte CA
626-795-5170
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 02-20-2017 18:33
From: Roger Gable
Subject: Alcohol & Water

The issue as to how to address tight flange bushings has come up numerous times over the years. Last week I was called to tune a 15 year old Kohler and Campbell by Samick. About 20% of the hammer shank bushings were so tight they held the shank at a 45 degree angle. When I encounter bushing that tight I will re-pin them, but I decided to try the 50/50 alcohol/water solution on all the bushing. I returned today to tune the piano and all the bushing were free with about 5 swings.
Roger

------------------------------
Roger Gable
Gable Piano
Everett WA
425-252-5000
------------------------------

Be careful about heating old actions. Glue joints everywhere can fail. Don't ask..
Paul McCloud
San Diego


Original Message------

I think it's important to note that before using this treatment one's first step should be to sample the flanges first.  The pinning on the hammer, whippen and jack flanges should not be assumed to be equal.   Ideally, the hammers would have been pinned tighter to begin with, with the jack centers being the loosest, and the whippens somewhere in between.  In actuality, I often find instances of one set of centers being sluggish while the others are not contributing to the problem.  Usually, it's the hammer centers, but don't assume that because they're sluggish you should go ahead and soak the whippens and jacks as well.   Applying alcohol and water to a set of flanges that is already free will do more harm than good.
This treatment works best on pianos where the bushing cloth was not properly sized (i.e. pre-shrunk) to begin with, which is to say, some American-made verticals from around 1945 through 1970.  It won't do a bit of good on either early Steinways with verdigris or the aforementioned Korean makes.
I have found this treatment to be much more effective if applied in conjunction with heat.  Heating the action shrinks the wool more effectively (Have you ever mistakenly washed a wool sweater in hot water?), and expands the diameter of the pin to iron the bushing cloth.
 I cover the action and use a hair dryer to get the temperature up to 140 degrees F and work the centers through their range of motion while they're hot.  After the action sits overnight I go through the flanges again to make sure they're all free.  Sometimes, if they're borderline or in a suspect environment I will subsequently treat the action with a solution of dimethyl silicone lubricant mixed 1/10 with VMP naphtha.
 If I have treated, for instance, the hammer flange centers with A/W but not the jacks, I will use the silicone/naptha on them, since it will not unduly loosen them and might, I think, make them less likely to soak up moisture in the future. 
 I view repinning as a last resort.  It's not that I dislike repinning.  It's certainly the surest remedy, but it's a lot more time-consuming.
Heating the action, while effective, is not without its drawbacks.  It will loosen all the action screws.  If the hammer flange screws were loose begin with, it might be worthwhile to tighten them both before and after heating, so they won't be quite so bad when it comes to realigning the hammers to the strings.  At the least, you'll have to check this on reinstalling the action.


------------------------------
Cecil Snyder
Torrance CA
310-542-7108
------------------------------