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moderators out of hand

  • 1.  moderators out of hand

    Posted 11-15-2018 01:54
    So, I go to reply to Benjamin's post after he told us that the climate change thread had been censored.
    I was going to point out that if one gets the lists by email, no one can reach into one's private computer
    and remove any posts at all.

    I got a long wait and a notice that Benjamin's post I wanted to reply to was being considered for moderation.

    If anyone wishes to see again any of the posts about climate change, I have them all safe and sound, and
    will forward them as desired. And I think that the moderation is getting out of hand. We were not vicious
    or unreasonable, IMO.

    Susan


  • 2.  RE: moderators out of hand

    Posted 11-15-2018 07:03
    I would like to see the discussion Susan.  I would appreciate you forwarding messages to me.  I have been following the management of forests for years, as here in South Dakota the Black Hills National Forest is critical.  I am not going to make political comments about any party or politician, but the management of forests is important.  I like to see others take on what is happening.  Residential development and forest management have to be discussed and understood.

    Thanks,
    Tim Coates

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    Tim Coates
    Sioux Falls SD
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  • 3.  RE: moderators out of hand

    Posted 11-15-2018 10:54
    I'll email them to you, Tim. I assume I can find an email address on your website.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 4.  RE: moderators out of hand

    Posted 11-15-2018 19:35
    Edited by Patrick Wingren 11-15-2018 19:38
    The same goes for me, Susan, I'd really like to read them. I'd be grateful if you could send them to me by email. I'll PM you my email address!

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    Patrick Wingren, RPT
    Jakobstad, Finland
    0035844-5288048
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  • 5.  RE: moderators out of hand

    Posted 11-16-2018 00:30
    Hi Susan,
     Send them to me too please, if you can.
    Normally, the only thing I have seen censored here is if someone dares to post something critical of the high echelons.
    Put-downs of colleagues, character assassinations of fellow PTG members, and other un-civil behavior towards peers do not seem to attract moderators' attention, or at least they haven't in the past. I understand the term "climate change" is censored in a lot of US media so maybe we are just following a trend here?

    The PTG facebook page is also subject to murky and unexplained censorship ( I have been censored there, and asked about it to no avail). The whole censorship thing is either disconcerting (if you care about PTG like I do), or it is a real turn-off (and probably contributes to why the majority of of technical posts and participants no longer use the PTG platforms).  I would not expect this thread to stay up for long either.

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    Jurgen Goering
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  • 6.  RE: moderators out of hand

    Posted 11-16-2018 01:24
    Certainly Jurgen, I'll send them to you. I just sent them to Patrick in Finland, who no doubt will find them when he wakes up tomorrow morning.

    As for the Facebook list, I have distrusted Facebook for years, and I now have as little to do with them as possible. Here's some more politics, but I think it's important. In the aftermath of the election, we found out from the intlligence community that Facebook collects individual psychological profiles of its users by tracking every single "like" and "dislike" they make, and then the data was given "for an academic study" to a British professor who, it turned out, teaches six months a year in St. Petersburg. Therefore the Russians got individual psychological data on hundreds of thousands of Americans,, data which can never be retrieved, and which the Russians were able to use to aim their "bot" traffic. As they are still doing, riling us up against each other.

    Okay, that's political. But if we're discussing which forum to use for a pianotech list, maybe it's important for people to know why I won't even consider using that one.

    And then there's Google, which provides invaluable service with their search engines, but they certainly exact a price for it by "mining" commercial data not only by trailing people around the web, but also by getting keywords from PRIVATE emails! If you doubt this, try mentioning something unusual and then go to the web and look at the ads. I'm talking with my nephew's wife, and she mentions (in a private email) that my grand niece has gotten a job at Panera Bread. THREE MINUTES LATER I go to the web, and <shazam> there are ads for Panera Bread which I had never seen on the web before.

    Personally, I think email between individuals should be as private as the physical U.S. mail. Tampering with the mail is a federal offense.

    There, moderators -- politics! But -- here's the connection to PTG-L business: we have been discussing the different places where piano lists can be found, and both the Facebook list and the Google list have been mentioned. Just as well to know that both venues have some issues. Personally, I wouldn't even visit either of those lists, let alone take part. I guess I'm showing my age. I remember when personal privacy could be taken for granted as a normal right.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 7.  RE: moderators out of hand

    Posted 11-16-2018 07:19
    Edited by Tim Coates 11-16-2018 07:23
    Susan,

    Thanks for the forwarded emails.  I found them interesting and let's me know we have healthy minds willing to converse.  There are so many issues that pertain to pianos that could/should be addressed concerning the more frequent wild fires that have been cut off by censoring.  The thread was not allowed to grow.  I am glad to see Jurgen comment and his observation about what is censored and what is not.

    I especially read with interest your comments about data mining.  I don't know for sure if my personal efforts have been working, but I have for years done some "hiding".  My browser is Firefox (private browsing mode), my mail program is Thunderbird,  and I use Ghostery (anti-datamining software).  At times I also use Windscribe VPN.  Windscibe has just come out with something called ROBERT I am going to explore.  I don't see ads pop up because I was visiting a website or making certain comments in an email.  I visit FB and use certain google tools, but don't seem to be blatantly hounded by anything.  I know my data is being mined, but I can't totally stop it and be alive.


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    Tim Coates
    Sioux Falls SD
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  • 8.  RE: moderators out of hand

    Posted 11-16-2018 08:44
    I am curious why discussions of this important topic, by our colleagues, would be so much more interesting than discussions of it by others. Those other discussions are easy to find and the expertise of the writers can be verified. The need to sell advertising 24/7 can be avoided, maybe not entirely, but you don't have to get information from large news organizations if you don't want to.

    I am not defending the moderators, but just curious about this reaction?

    Thanks.

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    Cindy Strehlow
    Urbana, IL
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  • 9.  RE: moderators out of hand

    Posted 11-16-2018 07:28
    Hi Susan. I would certainly like to see the posts. My working email is farrellpianoservice at gmail. How in the world could climate change be considered political? Sure sounds like science to me!

    Tim Coates: I share your concerns. My first bachelors degree was in Forestry - so the subject is still quite dear to me.

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    Terry Farrell
    Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
    Brandon, Florida
    terry@farrellpiano.com
    813-684-3505
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  • 10.  RE: moderators out of hand

    Posted 11-16-2018 11:05
    Terry, I'll forward to you and Jurgen at the same time. Do you have access to the PTG-L posting? If so, I'll omit it, since none of it has been removed.

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    Susan Kline
    Philomath, Oregon
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  • 11.  RE: moderators out of hand

    Posted 11-16-2018 23:01
    Susan, you make very valid points about how Facebook and Google operate to mine data from their users.
    My solution: I have a false birth date and year on my FB profile, and I have never "liked" any post or reacted with any of the icons available.

    regarding Google: I have long abandoned that monster for all the reasons you mention (and more) and now use Ecosia as my default search engine. Ecosia give me results every bit as good, but it is a non-profit organization that uses all of its profits to plant trees, mostly in developing countries. So far, they have planted over 40 million (!!) trees worldwide. Check it out!

    Ecosia - the search engine that plants trees
    Ecosia remove preview
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    Ecosia uses the ad revenue from your searches to plant trees where they are needed the most. By searching with Ecosia, you're not only reforesting our planet, but you're also empowering the communities around our planting projects to build a better future for themselves. Give it a try!
    View this on Ecosia >


    OK, now back to pianos. I tune several of them today.....noe of them were memorable.

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    Jurgen Goering
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