Pianotech

CA Glue question, applied outside the realm of piano work. Apologies that this is not directly about pianos, but it may help us to better understand the uses of CA glue in our craft.
I'm a proponent of using CA for loose tuning pins.
I have a deck that has lots of popping nails. They can be hammered down but they come up again after a few seasons. The internet suggests cinching each nail-head down with a screw right next to it. Seems messy to me. Suddenly I wondered: what if CA glue is applied below the nailhead, and then the nail is hammered back to deck level. Would this work?
In theory, maybe maybe not. The nails don't have threads. What do you all think?

Thanks in advance
Jason Kanter
Bellevue Piano Tuning

------------------------------
Jason Kanter
Bellevue WA
425-830-1561
------------------------------

Original Message------

CA Glue question, applied outside the realm of piano work. Apologies that this is not directly about pianos, but it may help us to better understand the uses of CA glue in our craft.
I'm a proponent of using CA for loose tuning pins.
I have a deck that has lots of popping nails. They can be hammered down but they come up again after a few seasons. The internet suggests cinching each nail-head down with a screw right next to it. Seems messy to me. Suddenly I wondered: what if CA glue is applied below the nailhead, and then the nail is hammered back to deck level. Would this work?
In theory, maybe maybe not. The nails don't have threads. What do you all think?

Thanks in advance
Jason Kanter
Bellevue Piano Tuning

------------------------------
Jason Kanter
Bellevue WA
425-830-1561
------------------------------

Alternately, just in the spirit of experimentation, when one has popped out (and the deck is dry-ish) put a blob of CA gel on the point of the nail and drive it back in.

Report the results. If you feel like being OCD, record which nails you've treated, the date you treated them, and how long they stayed in if any come back out.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2018 15:45
From: Jason Kanter
Subject: CA glue application?

CA Glue question, applied outside the realm of piano work. Apologies that this is not directly about pianos, but it may help us to better understand the uses of CA glue in our craft.
I'm a proponent of using CA for loose tuning pins.
I have a deck that has lots of popping nails. They can be hammered down but they come up again after a few seasons. The internet suggests cinching each nail-head down with a screw right next to it. Seems messy to me. Suddenly I wondered: what if CA glue is applied below the nailhead, and then the nail is hammered back to deck level. Would this work?
In theory, maybe maybe not. The nails don't have threads. What do you all think?

Thanks in advance
Jason Kanter
Bellevue Piano Tuning

------------------------------
Jason Kanter
Bellevue WA
425-830-1561
------------------------------

P.S. Be aware of the possibility that if you want to dismantle the deck in future, some of those nails might be the very devil to get back out -- or not, as the case may be. More data ...

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2018 17:16
From: Susan Kline
Subject: CA glue application?

Alternately, just in the spirit of experimentation, when one has popped out (and the deck is dry-ish) put a blob of CA gel on the point of the nail and drive it back in.

Report the results. If you feel like being OCD, record which nails you've treated, the date you treated them, and how long they stayed in if any come back out.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2018 15:45
From: Jason Kanter
Subject: CA glue application?

CA Glue question, applied outside the realm of piano work. Apologies that this is not directly about pianos, but it may help us to better understand the uses of CA glue in our craft.
I'm a proponent of using CA for loose tuning pins.
I have a deck that has lots of popping nails. They can be hammered down but they come up again after a few seasons. The internet suggests cinching each nail-head down with a screw right next to it. Seems messy to me. Suddenly I wondered: what if CA glue is applied below the nailhead, and then the nail is hammered back to deck level. Would this work?
In theory, maybe maybe not. The nails don't have threads. What do you all think?

Thanks in advance
Jason Kanter
Bellevue Piano Tuning

------------------------------
Jason Kanter
Bellevue WA
425-830-1561
------------------------------

Jason, 

Although I can heartily agree with Chris on yanking the nails and replacing them with screws (though you may encounter some rot in the process), CA would in fact work and here's why:

When you apply the CA (I suggest thin, liberally) into the hole it adheres to both the nail and the wood, increasing the diameter of the nail and reducing the diameter of the hole (plus, it hardens and strengthens the wood). After cure, you hammer it in and the combined changes now complement each other and you have a much tighter bond. If I were doing it I would do two applications letting the first cure (the moisture in the wood will make it go fast). 

If after hammering back in you feel like you still need more I would apply it again to lock it in.

I use CA on furniture repair (and other stuff around the house all the time) regularly.  I use it as a "primer" (hardener) prior to us Lakeone wood rebuilder when there is old, tired, weakened wood and (usually due to previous repairs failing) gaps need to be filled and solidified . Although not "waterproof" it is quite resistant to water for a long time.  Go for it. 

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2018 17:18
From: Susan Kline
Subject: CA glue application?

P.S. Be aware of the possibility that if you want to dismantle the deck in future, some of those nails might be the very devil to get back out -- or not, as the case may be. More data ...

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2018 17:16
From: Susan Kline
Subject: CA glue application?

Alternately, just in the spirit of experimentation, when one has popped out (and the deck is dry-ish) put a blob of CA gel on the point of the nail and drive it back in.

Report the results. If you feel like being OCD, record which nails you've treated, the date you treated them, and how long they stayed in if any come back out.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2018 15:45
From: Jason Kanter
Subject: CA glue application?

CA Glue question, applied outside the realm of piano work. Apologies that this is not directly about pianos, but it may help us to better understand the uses of CA glue in our craft.
I'm a proponent of using CA for loose tuning pins.
I have a deck that has lots of popping nails. They can be hammered down but they come up again after a few seasons. The internet suggests cinching each nail-head down with a screw right next to it. Seems messy to me. Suddenly I wondered: what if CA glue is applied below the nailhead, and then the nail is hammered back to deck level. Would this work?
In theory, maybe maybe not. The nails don't have threads. What do you all think?

Thanks in advance
Jason Kanter
Bellevue Piano Tuning

------------------------------
Jason Kanter
Bellevue WA
425-830-1561
------------------------------

The nails are not coming out because they are loose. They are coming out for the same reason pianos go out of tune. Changes in the environment. Over time the wood expands and contracts along with the weather and the nails are sort of just squeezed out of their holes. I would think that if you pulled the nail out just far enough to get a couple of drops of CA in there, just like you do with tuning pins, and then hammer it back in it should hold. But, like Susan, I would like a report. Probably in a year or two after it's been through a couple of seasons.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2018 15:45
From: Jason Kanter
Subject: CA glue application?

CA Glue question, applied outside the realm of piano work. Apologies that this is not directly about pianos, but it may help us to better understand the uses of CA glue in our craft.
I'm a proponent of using CA for loose tuning pins.
I have a deck that has lots of popping nails. They can be hammered down but they come up again after a few seasons. The internet suggests cinching each nail-head down with a screw right next to it. Seems messy to me. Suddenly I wondered: what if CA glue is applied below the nailhead, and then the nail is hammered back to deck level. Would this work?
In theory, maybe maybe not. The nails don't have threads. What do you all think?

Thanks in advance
Jason Kanter
Bellevue Piano Tuning

------------------------------
Jason Kanter
Bellevue WA
425-830-1561
------------------------------

Jason -
Please indulge the obsessive potential of some of us:
- type of decking material
- dimensions of planks (now and at multiple seasonal measurements)
- type of nails (and size)
- in what season do most of the offenders pop?

------------------------------
David Skolnik [RPT]
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2018 18:29
From: Geoff Sykes
Subject: CA glue application?

The nails are not coming out because they are loose. They are coming out for the same reason pianos go out of tune. Changes in the environment. Over time the wood expands and contracts along with the weather and the nails are sort of just squeezed out of their holes. I would think that if you pulled the nail out just far enough to get a couple of drops of CA in there, just like you do with tuning pins, and then hammer it back in it should hold. But, like Susan, I would like a report. Probably in a year or two after it's been through a couple of seasons.

------------------------------
Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA

Original Message:
Sent: 09-15-2018 15:45
From: Jason Kanter
Subject: CA glue application?

CA Glue question, applied outside the realm of piano work. Apologies that this is not directly about pianos, but it may help us to better understand the uses of CA glue in our craft.
I'm a proponent of using CA for loose tuning pins.
I have a deck that has lots of popping nails. They can be hammered down but they come up again after a few seasons. The internet suggests cinching each nail-head down with a screw right next to it. Seems messy to me. Suddenly I wondered: what if CA glue is applied below the nailhead, and then the nail is hammered back to deck level. Would this work?
In theory, maybe maybe not. The nails don't have threads. What do you all think?

Thanks in advance
Jason Kanter
Bellevue Piano Tuning

------------------------------
Jason Kanter
Bellevue WA
425-830-1561
------------------------------

Original Message------

Jason -
Please indulge the obsessive potential of some of us:
- type of decking material
- dimensions of planks (now and at multiple seasonal measurements)
- type of nails (and size)
- in what season do most of the offenders pop?

------------------------------
David Skolnik [RPT]
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
------------------------------

I don't think Jason is looking for a permanent solution here, but simply buying time (and experimenting).  Ultimately the screws are the better fix. This would simply be "another use for CA glue".

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-16-2018 14:27
From: Thomas Black
Subject: CA glue application?

If I wanted a permanent fix I would remove the nails as they pop out and replace with proper deck screws. I think a little dab of CA is a waste of time. I think you would need to CA the entire nail hole.

Sent from my iPhone

Original Message------

Jason -
Please indulge the obsessive potential of some of us:
- type of decking material
- dimensions of planks (now and at multiple seasonal measurements)
- type of nails (and size)
- in what season do most of the offenders pop?

------------------------------
David Skolnik [RPT]
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
------------------------------

I replace nails with screws when the nails work out of the wood, Jason. I would like to hear if anyone has a good alternative (including CA).The main application I have found is repairing bench bottoms, which are usually attached with staples or nails. I think you would like the nail to act more like a screw so why not use a screw. The hole is already there so inserting a screw hasn't been a problem in my experience.

Bob Anderson
Tucson, AZ


Original Message------

CA Glue question, applied outside the realm of piano work. Apologies that this is not directly about pianos, but it may help us to better understand the uses of CA glue in our craft.
I'm a proponent of using CA for loose tuning pins.
I have a deck that has lots of popping nails. They can be hammered down but they come up again after a few seasons. The internet suggests cinching each nail-head down with a screw right next to it. Seems messy to me. Suddenly I wondered: what if CA glue is applied below the nailhead, and then the nail is hammered back to deck level. Would this work?
In theory, maybe maybe not. The nails don't have threads. What do you all think?

Thanks in advance
Jason Kanter
Bellevue Piano Tuning

------------------------------
Jason Kanter
Bellevue WA
425-830-1561
------------------------------

go with deck screws . there are also a number of systems that can be used with decking involving clips and brackets and putting screws in at an angle. i have some pressure treated decking that has curled upward after weathering hot humid summers, rain , expansion and contraction. i doubt using ca glue will help holding nails in. it could also be time to check the condition of the stringers that the deck flooring is nailed into. moisture gets trapped under the decking planks and weakens the cell structure causing cracking and other problems. save the ca glue for pinblocks

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 09-18-2018 10:35
From: Robert Anderson
Subject: CA glue application?

I replace nails with screws when the nails work out of the wood, Jason. I would like to hear if anyone has a good alternative (including CA).The main application I have found is repairing bench bottoms, which are usually attached with staples or nails. I think you would like the nail to act more like a screw so why not use a screw. The hole is already there so inserting a screw hasn't been a problem in my experience.

Bob Anderson
Tucson, AZ


Original Message------

CA Glue question, applied outside the realm of piano work. Apologies that this is not directly about pianos, but it may help us to better understand the uses of CA glue in our craft.
I'm a proponent of using CA for loose tuning pins.
I have a deck that has lots of popping nails. They can be hammered down but they come up again after a few seasons. The internet suggests cinching each nail-head down with a screw right next to it. Seems messy to me. Suddenly I wondered: what if CA glue is applied below the nailhead, and then the nail is hammered back to deck level. Would this work?
In theory, maybe maybe not. The nails don't have threads. What do you all think?

Thanks in advance
Jason Kanter
Bellevue Piano Tuning

------------------------------
Jason Kanter
Bellevue WA
425-830-1561
------------------------------