Pianotech

  • 1.  Replacing Bridgecaps

    Posted 06-03-2018 06:28
    Hello, 
    So I am restoring a 125 years old Anderson baby grand piano. I know it's not really that worth restoring, but I got it cheap enough that i am not super worried if I ruin it. The bridges on the piano are cracked up badly and I would like to replace them. I used a template to copy the curvature of the bridge into a new piece of 3/4" thick solid maple board. When I used my depth gauge and it looks like the left side of the treble bridge is a little thicker than the right side (about 1/8" thicker) My questions are: 
    1- is 3/4" enough for a new bridge cap?
    2- The bridge pins are dislocated to the point that I may not be able to get the angle of the pin correctly, will that be a problem? I think I will drill all holes at about 45 degrees. 
    3- The notches in the bridge cap, are they all identical? Or is they of different width/depth (the ones on mine are notched in the beginning but they look like someone got bored and never completed them) 
    4- where would I be able to get the graphite to burnish the bridge cap?

    I am a newbie trying to figure things out. And I appreciate all your help. 


    Thank you!!

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    Abed Joud
    Computer Engineer
    Elk Grove CA
    832-660-6502
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  • 2.  RE: Replacing Bridgecaps

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-03-2018 09:22
    Abed, your questions clearly show that you are new to piano rebuilding, and need instruction at the most basic level.  If you have the research chops and the patience, you can learn a lot from the Pianotech archives.  If you prefer to have the information organized and presented in classroom format, you could try Ken Eschete's online courses Advanced training for piano technicians
    Bentsidearts remove preview
    Advanced training for piano technicians
    The Bellyman Certification Program teaches technicians how to replace soundboards, bridge caps and pinblocks. The classes run online, but include a hands-on element that makes them effective and fun! The Craft of Soundboard Making Piano rebuilding is already a satisfying addition for many piano tuning businesses.
    View this on Bentsidearts >
    Or you could attend the PTG annual convention and technical institute.   Journal article reprint books may still be available, check it out at the PTG store.

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    Michael Spalding RPT
    Fredonia WI
    262-692-3943
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  • 3.  RE: Replacing Bridgecaps

    Posted 06-04-2018 16:11
    Michael, 
    As much as I would love to learn, I am not planning on pursuing this as a professional career. I am just doing it for the fun of it. I am a computer engineer by practice. So courses are too expensive for me for it to be worthy to restore a mediocre piano. If I was restoring a Steinway, I would probably make a case for it.. but for an Anderson? Not so much.

    Thank you though!!

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    Abed Joud
    Computer Engineer
    Elk Grove CA
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  • 4.  RE: Replacing Bridgecaps

    Posted 06-03-2018 09:39
    In true newbie style (spoken from my own past newbie experience), you have asked a humongous question, with too many aspects to consider in a single thread.

    However, if you undertake this, allow this experience to be a first try experiment, don't get too hard on yourself for only partial success, and it will be hugely educational. 

    The big picture is, that in recapping a bridge, you are trying to load the strung board with a certain amount of downbearing. That is, the strings deflect slightly up in their path from agraffe(or capo) to hitchpin. This upward deflection loads the board somewhat with downward force from the tension of the strings. This means that the appropriate height of the finished bridge will be defined by the plate height, the strings, and the amount of crown extant on the soundboard. In a  vintage piano, the board may have no crown left, and may deflect to flat or negative crown under string load, so one must assess the board's capability before deciding how much to load it.  Copying the existing bridge height is of only limited value in most rebuilding situations, as the structure of the board, and its ability to resist downbearing forces will be different now than they were when the piano was built. 

    Bridge pin slant of 18 deg is common and adequate.  Front and back pin offsets should be kept minimal, 10-13 deg lateral deflection of the string over the cap. 

    The notches provide one simple task: they waste wood so the strings have clear access to the termination point at the pins. The center of the pin is the termination point. The edge of notch begins either centered on the pins or towards the back of the pin slightly. The notch itself, ie the chiseled away part's only task is to achieve string clearance. You can make it look pretty and obsess about even-ness of the woodworking, but functionally its just getting wood out of the way, so string excursion only contacts the bridge at the termination point(front pin). Sometimes, long bridges are beveled instead of notched, especially on very old or very cheap instruments. Forget what is there and why. The goal is to create pin terminations so that there are 3 identical speaking lengths for each unison. Then after creating those even speaking lengths, get excess wood out of the way, by chiseling (notching) away excess.

    Pin fit is extremely important, meaning, the pins can't be too loose in the hole drilled in the cap. If they are not snug, there will be noises produced by the strings that cannot be tuned out. Loose pins sound real bad. Practice with varying size drill bits to get the angles close and holes consistent. You want the driven pins to present resistance to driving, but not so much that they bend. Put a dab of epoxy in each hole before driving the pin. Support the board from below while driving the pins. Use new bridge pins. Do not reuse the old ones...get them from Schaff, or other online supply houses.

    Supply houses like Schaff sell the product Dag, which is the graphite. However, I don't use any graphite on my bridges. Europeans don't either. I'm not sure if it actually is a functional addition or just makes finding the termination edge with the chisel easier to see. If you can't procure the Dag, don't sweat it...there's other much bigger things to sweat in this first attempt.

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 5.  RE: Replacing Bridgecaps

    Posted 06-04-2018 16:27
    Jim, 
    Thank you for the detailed response. I appreciate it. When you say 18 degrees, is it 18 degrees to the cap? or 18 degrees from the top? 

    Thank you Again!!

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    Abed Joud
    Computer Engineer
    Elk Grove CA
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  • 6.  RE: Replacing Bridgecaps

    Posted 06-04-2018 16:53
    18 deg off vertical, vertical being 0 deg as a reference.

    Careful, this is a slippery slope...many the fine software engineer has descended into the penurious occupation you are flirting with.

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 7.  RE: Replacing Bridgecaps

    Posted 06-04-2018 17:18
    Haha yeah!! I do have a history of going down those slippery slopes.. with car restos, wood working, etc... it looks like piano resto is going to be added to that list!! So, I figured how to "measure" the piano crown, i will measure that later, is it reliable when the piano is unstrung? In addition to that, I think i figured how to get the cap right.. do you keep your down bearing angles the same across the bridge? if so, at what? I know that with a steinway they vary between 0.4 and 1.4. I don't have the measurements for mine.

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    Abed Joud
    Computer Engineer
    Elk Grove CA
    832-660-6502
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  • 8.  RE: Replacing Bridgecaps

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 06-05-2018 11:01
    A good rule of thumb is to roughly duplicate the amount of crown available in the downbearing setup. It's not an absolute 1:1 relationship but it's close. I tend to go ever so slightly lighter on the DB in relation to the crown (generally).

    And for your purposes, make it the same front to back.

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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  • 9.  RE: Replacing Bridgecaps

    Posted 06-05-2018 15:40
    Hi, Thank you for replying!! Could you please explain a little bit more?


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    Abed Joud
    Computer Engineer
    Elk Grove CA
    832-660-6502
    ------------------------------