Pianotech

Hi Susan:

I had listened to a number of these recordings some time ago and listened to them again.  The recordings are only a hair above god-awful, and the one of the Cargiano is the worst, with so much reverb.  ((They all seem to have some).  Did you notice the plastic curtain around the pianos in some of the recordings?  I think the piano is on a concrete floor.  Why they would showcase the piano in such a hostile acoustic environment is beyond me.  

That is not to say that the piano has no sins.  It's just that the recording is so bad that it's not easy to tell what is the piano and what is the recording. 

Several years ago I had the opportunity to hear a pair of 7' Steingraebers side by side.  One was of conventional bridge and belly construction, the other had a carbon fiber soundboard along with the Dain bridge agraffes.  I thought both instruments sounded very good in almost all respects.  To my ear, the CF board had a cooler and drier sound, but with good clarlty and carry.  It projected well.  The only thing that gave me pause were the prominent pulsating longitudinal modes coming off the bridge agraffes in much of the scale.  Had this piano a conventional bridge, I likely would have found it quite acceptable.  Too bad, there was much to like.  It lacked the many flaws that you have described.

One final comment.  What kind of setting are you listening to these recordings through?  Are you listening through the elecronics and the miniscule speakers that come with your computer?  Desktop computer speakers?  A connection to your home audio system, or headphones?

I recently made the effort to upgrade my online listening experience to get a truer sense of what a piano is actually doing.  I am listening through a good quality set of B & W P7 headphones, running through an Audioquest DAC/Preamplifier that comes out of my computer's USB port.  

I can tell you that the electronics in my computer (and most others) are garbage to run a signal through (there is so much noise and interference).  The DAC bypasses the circuitry of the computer, and the better speakers of the headphones are much truer to the original signal.  It doesn't eliminate coloration (the headphones bring their own), but it is a vast improvement over what we would otherwise be hearing  through the computer alone.    I feel I am better equipped to judge the merits or failings of a piano recording.  

Will Truitt

Hi Susan:

I had listened to a number of these recordings some time ago and listened to them again.  The recordings are only a hair above god-awful, and the one of the Cargiano is the worst, with so much reverb.  ((They all seem to have some).  Did you notice the plastic curtain around the pianos in some of the recordings?  I think the piano is on a concrete floor.  Why they would showcase the piano in such a hostile acoustic environment is beyond me.  

That is not to say that the piano has no sins.  It's just that the recording is so bad that it's not easy to tell what is the piano and what is the recording. 

Several years ago I had the opportunity to hear a pair of 7' Steingraebers side by side.  One was of conventional bridge and belly construction, the other had a carbon fiber soundboard along with the Dain bridge agraffes.  I thought both instruments sounded very good in almost all respects.  To my ear, the CF board had a cooler and drier sound, but with good clarlty and carry.  It projected well.  The only thing that gave me pause were the prominent pulsating longitudinal modes coming off the bridge agraffes in much of the scale.  Had this piano a conventional bridge, I likely would have found it quite acceptable.  Too bad, there was much to like.  It lacked the many flaws that you have described.

One final comment.  What kind of setting are you listening to these recordings through?  Are you listening through the elecronics and the miniscule speakers that come with your computer?  Desktop computer speakers?  A connection to your home audio system, or headphones?

I recently made the effort to upgrade my online listening experience to get a truer sense of what a piano is actually doing.  I am listening through a good quality set of B & W P7 headphones, running through an Audioquest DAC/Preamplifier that comes out of my computer's USB port.  

I can tell you that the electronics in my computer (and most others) are garbage to run a signal through (there is so much noise and interference).  The DAC bypasses the circuitry of the computer, and the better speakers of the headphones are much truer to the original signal.  It doesn't eliminate coloration (the headphones bring their own), but it is a vast improvement over what we would otherwise be hearing  through the computer alone.    I feel I am better equipped to judge the merits or failings of a piano recording.  

Will Truitt

Hi Susan:

I had listened to a number of these recordings some time ago and listened to them again.  The recordings are only a hair above god-awful, and the one of the Cargiano is the worst, with so much reverb.  ((They all seem to have some).  Did you notice the plastic curtain around the pianos in some of the recordings?  I think the piano is on a concrete floor.  Why they would showcase the piano in such a hostile acoustic environment is beyond me.  

That is not to say that the piano has no sins.  It's just that the recording is so bad that it's not easy to tell what is the piano and what is the recording. 

Several years ago I had the opportunity to hear a pair of 7' Steingraebers side by side.  One was of conventional bridge and belly construction, the other had a carbon fiber soundboard along with the Dain bridge agraffes.  I thought both instruments sounded very good in almost all respects.  To my ear, the CF board had a cooler and drier sound, but with good clarlty and carry.  It projected well.  The only thing that gave me pause were the prominent pulsating longitudinal modes coming off the bridge agraffes in much of the scale.  Had this piano a conventional bridge, I likely would have found it quite acceptable.  Too bad, there was much to like.  It lacked the many flaws that you have described.

One final comment.  What kind of setting are you listening to these recordings through?  Are you listening through the elecronics and the miniscule speakers that come with your computer?  Desktop computer speakers?  A connection to your home audio system, or headphones?

I recently made the effort to upgrade my online listening experience to get a truer sense of what a piano is actually doing.  I am listening through a good quality set of B & W P7 headphones, running through an Audioquest DAC/Preamplifier that comes out of my computer's USB port.  

I can tell you that the electronics in my computer (and most others) are garbage to run a signal through (there is so much noise and interference).  The DAC bypasses the circuitry of the computer, and the better speakers of the headphones are much truer to the original signal.  It doesn't eliminate coloration (the headphones bring their own), but it is a vast improvement over what we would otherwise be hearing  through the computer alone.    I feel I am better equipped to judge the merits or failings of a piano recording.  

Will Truitt

I saw and heard one of these carbon fiber soundboard pianos a few conventions ago.  It had a very pure tone that did not sound inferior in any way.  Some people were saying that it lacked the "soul" of a spruce soundboard but I think some of that opinion may have been the power of suggestion.  Since it was known that it was not spruce, then there was already a pre-conceived negative opinion about it.  That is to say that if people listening to it did not know about the soundboard material, they may have remarked that it was the best piano they had ever heard.

I can see this going one of two ways, perhaps both:  the carbon-fiber soundboard is currently much more expensive than spruce, so only high quality pianos would have them.  That is until manufacturers like the Chinese (but maybe even an American manufacturer) figure out how to produce the material in mass quantities and then it becomes cheaper and less wasteful than spruce, so entry level pianos are made with it while quality spruce is reserved for finer pianos.

Eventually, the supply of spruce that is good enough for piano soundboards will run out.  Perhaps not in our lifetime but at some point there just will not be any more left.  Before that happens, it will become so rare that it is prohibitively expensive.

Just because the soundboard will not react to humidity fluctuations will not mean the piano will not need tuning.  Less frequent tuning, yes but the need will not be eliminated.

There are some easily accessible You Tube videos about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFMPHl2sno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbsG2nmOC4c

As for materials, I have wondered why no manufacturer has yet to consider using bamboo products.  I get laughed and scoffed at whenever I mention it but the fact is that compressed bamboo fibers make extremely strong and dense material suitable for piano cases including grand piano lids, keyframes, beams and the keys themselves.  They have a natural wood-like beauty of their own but of course, can take a high gloss polyester finish too.

Bamboo is not wood but a type of grass that grows copiously and prolifically in poor soil.  All it needs is a warm temperature and plenty of rain.  There are many places where it can grow, including devastated places like Haiti and deforested Brazil and Africa.  It actually absorbs more carbon dioxide and releases more oxygen than trees.  I actually wonder why China where a lot of it grows, has not tried to use it yet for piano manufacturing.

Here are some good informational articles about what can be made from bamboo and its ecological benefits:

http://www.onegreenplanet.org/lifestyle/10-eco-friendly-bamboo-products/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_construction

I saw and heard one of these carbon fiber soundboard pianos a few conventions ago.  It had a very pure tone that did not sound inferior in any way.  Some people were saying that it lacked the "soul" of a spruce soundboard but I think some of that opinion may have been the power of suggestion.  Since it was known that it was not spruce, then there was already a pre-conceived negative opinion about it.  That is to say that if people listening to it did not know about the soundboard material, they may have remarked that it was the best piano they had ever heard.

I can see this going one of two ways, perhaps both:  the carbon-fiber soundboard is currently much more expensive than spruce, so only high quality pianos would have them.  That is until manufacturers like the Chinese (but maybe even an American manufacturer) figure out how to produce the material in mass quantities and then it becomes cheaper and less wasteful than spruce, so entry level pianos are made with it while quality spruce is reserved for finer pianos.

Eventually, the supply of spruce that is good enough for piano soundboards will run out.  Perhaps not in our lifetime but at some point there just will not be any more left.  Before that happens, it will become so rare that it is prohibitively expensive.

Just because the soundboard will not react to humidity fluctuations will not mean the piano will not need tuning.  Less frequent tuning, yes but the need will not be eliminated.

There are some easily accessible You Tube videos about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdFMPHl2sno

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbsG2nmOC4c

As for materials, I have wondered why no manufacturer has yet to consider using bamboo products.  I get laughed and scoffed at whenever I mention it but the fact is that compressed bamboo fibers make extremely strong and dense material suitable for piano cases including grand piano lids, keyframes, beams and the keys themselves.  They have a natural wood-like beauty of their own but of course, can take a high gloss polyester finish too.

Bamboo is not wood but a type of grass that grows copiously and prolifically in poor soil.  All it needs is a warm temperature and plenty of rain.  There are many places where it can grow, including devastated places like Haiti and deforested Brazil and Africa.  It actually absorbs more carbon dioxide and releases more oxygen than trees.  I actually wonder why China where a lot of it grows, has not tried to use it yet for piano manufacturing.

Here are some good informational articles about what can be made from bamboo and its ecological benefits:

http://www.onegreenplanet.org/lifestyle/10-eco-friendly-bamboo-products/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bamboo_construction

Hi Susan:

I had listened to a number of these recordings some time ago and listened to them again.  The recordings are only a hair above god-awful, and the one of the Cargiano is the worst, with so much reverb.  ((They all seem to have some).  Did you notice the plastic curtain around the pianos in some of the recordings?  I think the piano is on a concrete floor.  Why they would showcase the piano in such a hostile acoustic environment is beyond me.  

That is not to say that the piano has no sins.  It's just that the recording is so bad that it's not easy to tell what is the piano and what is the recording. 

Several years ago I had the opportunity to hear a pair of 7' Steingraebers side by side.  One was of conventional bridge and belly construction, the other had a carbon fiber soundboard along with the Dain bridge agraffes.  I thought both instruments sounded very good in almost all respects.  To my ear, the CF board had a cooler and drier sound, but with good clarlty and carry.  It projected well.  The only thing that gave me pause were the prominent pulsating longitudinal modes coming off the bridge agraffes in much of the scale.  Had this piano a conventional bridge, I likely would have found it quite acceptable.  Too bad, there was much to like.  It lacked the many flaws that you have described.

One final comment.  What kind of setting are you listening to these recordings through?  Are you listening through the elecronics and the miniscule speakers that come with your computer?  Desktop computer speakers?  A connection to your home audio system, or headphones?

I recently made the effort to upgrade my online listening experience to get a truer sense of what a piano is actually doing.  I am listening through a good quality set of B & W P7 headphones, running through an Audioquest DAC/Preamplifier that comes out of my computer's USB port.  

I can tell you that the electronics in my computer (and most others) are garbage to run a signal through (there is so much noise and interference).  The DAC bypasses the circuitry of the computer, and the better speakers of the headphones are much truer to the original signal.  It doesn't eliminate coloration (the headphones bring their own), but it is a vast improvement over what we would otherwise be hearing  through the computer alone.    I feel I am better equipped to judge the merits or failings of a piano recording.  

Will Truitt

I heard the excellent recording of the youth orchestra, much better than I would have expected but I am sorry to say that it has no reflection upon whether a piano with a synthetic soundboard sounds as good as natural spruce or not.  Upon the only one very casual hearing of such a piano, I did not hear anything which sounded to me as being in anyway inferior but I did hear a very clean and refined sound such as I may have expected from a Fazioli, for example.

If I hear a piano with a synthetic soundboard that really sounds somehow, "bad", I will say so but so far, I have not heard that, advanced microphones and sound transmittal systems not withstanding.  The piano I heard at a convention, live and in person, did not in any way sound bad or deficient.  It actually sounded good if I am allowed to say that.  I would not complain if my own piano sounded like that.