There's more to consider when using plastics and composite for piano parts than is obvious. Although I'm sure many can be 3D replicated to exact measurements and dimensions, characteristics of the composite parts such as nail and screw holding capacity, strength, weight, stiffness, as well as it's use and function on the piano, it's expected performance reliability, and life expectancy will need to be considered.
Action, Keys, Pedal etc undergoes hundreds if not thousands of gyrations on a single recital much more over the piano's lifetime, if there now exist technology and materials that match or surpass the original then perhaps this is the future.
Kudos to WNG who seem to be at the forefront.
I had experimented on many parts including case moldings, inanimate decorative pieces, latches etc, with molded epoxy, polyester, fiberglass and carbon fiber, but as beautiful as they were none were ever used on our pianos because I could not justify or predict what it would be in 100 years.
Action Bracket? Ours had a threaded hole to which all rails were fastened and subsequently damper lifter rods hinges, came lose over a short period of time and some sort of powder came out of the thread.
Just my 2 cent,
Thanks
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Richard Weinstein
Arcadia CA
415-767-9536
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Original Message:
Sent: 04-03-2018 10:53
From: Anthony Willey
Subject: 3D Printers and Action Brackets
To print the action bracket on a personal 3D printer (the cheap way) you're running into two problems:
1. You'll have to be content with printing in plastic meaning lower strength and size problems of your own. You can't just design something to be X inches long and have it come out exactly that way, because it "prints" with melted plastic and when the plastic then cools it shrinks the size of your part.
2. I imagine the size of the action bracket is larger than the print size of most personal/library/homedepot printers. I have a relatively large printer and its bed is only 8"x12".
There are other types of printers that allow you to end up with metal parts, but they are industrial printers, too expensive for common folks to buy and play around with. You could probably find companies willing to print your part for a fee though I'm not sure what the fee would be.
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Anthony Willey
Shoreline WA
Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2018 13:31
From: Bernhard Stopper
Subject: 3D Printers and Action Brackets
I recently got a Zortrax M200 printer. It comes along with a pretty good 3D printing software that reads stl files which can create meshes with higher or lower density, to get an optimal mix of weight/strength/stiffness.
Parts can be drawn using FreeCAD and exported to the stl file format readable by the Zortrax printing software.
Attached is a picture of a printed whippen, took about 3 hours to print. Probably interesting for anyone who wants to play around with own design ideas.
Accuracy is pretty good, around 0.15 mm. You can even print the pin center holes (slightly smaller) and ream them up for hard bushings, or larger for conventional felt bushings.
Most interesting printing material is probably a carbon reinforced filament, both for action parts or brackets.
regards,
Bernhard
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Bernhard Stopper
Klavierbaumeister
Tuebingen
Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2018 11:37
From: Gabriel Lorenzi
Subject: 3D Printers and Action Brackets
Hello to all from Argentina. In my case, bought a 3D printer and I' made vertical piano flanges to tried.The people that I bought himthe printer maked the file. I had many problems to configure the printer, but this is the result.
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Gabriel Lorenzi
Piano Tuner
Santa Fe
54 9 342 5004440
Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2018 10:43
From: James Kelly
Subject: 3D Printers and Action Brackets
I think I read someplace there are universities and product development centers that can help with prototyping and even print 3-D parts. This may be worth pursuing however I think trying to print some of the smaller, precise parts may be way beyond the ability of many printers.
Action brackets look to me like they are cast from molds and machined for screws. I have seen wooden action brackets in older Chickerings and understand that they are quite stable so maybe that is easier to do then a 3-d made bracket.
The one-off low volume of the tools and parts we use is a non-starter for most companies. I had some ideas for tools that a company actually considered but their design team did not see how it could be profitable. We are fortunate to have some of the great tools we have many invented by technicians. I would love to have the opportunity again to see the enormous tool collection that the late Paul Monachinno
had of tools used in the factory. Maybe there are some tools worth considering making using current technology. The new WN&G
tools , Flugelbauer tools, the Hart tool, Mannino broaches , Faulk tuning levers, Levitan lever and many others have made many jobs easier but we are a very specialized market.
Perhaps we can start a brainstorming list of parts that are candidates or not candidates for 3-d printing, laser cutting, CAD/CAM, wood shop, machine shop.
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James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2018 08:58
From: Peter Grey
Subject: 3D Printers and Action Brackets
The printing of obsolete (or prototype) parts, etc was the very first thing I thought of when I first learned of 3d printing (after I got over the fact that this was not since fiction).
I am mystified as to why it is not being done by anyone. I even assumed that Bruce Clark must have one in his office...Nope!
And the whole idea is that it is supposed to encourage one-offs or limited runs due to greatly reduced overhead.
Pwg
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Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2018 08:38
From: Jim Ialeggio
Subject: 3D Printers and Action Brackets
probably for the same reason that CNC , for me, has never worked out financially for one off parts, though I have tried numerous times...ie, the part always ends up being way way more expensive than making the part, however inefficiently in your own shop. Many times I have priced out curved work that would be a cinch for CNC, only to find, that the machines and their owner earn 10 times what I as an artisan make. And, to boot, when you tell them its a one off, they have no interest, because even with the technology, one-off's are losing propositions. The administrative, CAD, machine setup, design time, and inevitable corrections, simply cannot be amortized in a one-off.
I think the difference is that expensive machines represent a huge capital expenditure that must be recouped. As an artisan, being somewhat paid in being able to enjoy my hobby/career on my own time, I don't have the same pressure to recoup capital investment, as enjoyment in what one does is not a capital expenditure.
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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2018 06:16
From: Thomas Servinsky
Subject: 3D Printers and Action Brackets
My daughter, who is an engineer with NASA ( working with the space station ), has asked on several occasions, why does't the piano industry jump on board and just start printing up obsolete or hard to obtain parts. She thinks that once the price of 3D printers goes down and more people are taught how to use them, this WILL be the new frontier of replacing hard to find parts. The Young Chang action bracket issue would be a perfect example. I've asked Schaff several times why them haven't start implementing 3D printers to create on-demand parts, and I always get the usual hem-and-haws why its still not practical.
Its interesting with the space station, if a latch on a door breaks, the engineers at Houston create a CAD blueprint of the part, send the code to the station, and viola....the part is printed on the space station. Of course they have different metal elements on hand, designed for internal and external uses. Pretty slick stuff!
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Tom Servinsky
Original Message:
Sent: 04-02-2018 00:23
From: Larry Fisher
Subject: 3D Printers and Action Brackets
Ya know Rick I've wondered the same thing for years. I think this has come up before. At the "Design to Build" expo I met a guy that came up with a formula that's stronger than steel ..... or so he claims. I'd be curious if anyone has looked into this. Obviously YC doesn't want to commit the resources ..... or has and isn't into production yet. Mayhaps Mr. F Schwartz with the huge service desk from Kawai could chime in on this.
Lar
Original Message------
Does anyone know if a 3D printer would work to duplicate action brackets?
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Rick Butler
Bowie MD
240 396 7480
RickRickRickRickRick
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