Pianotech

Subject: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

1.  CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-14-2017 22:10
Edited by Jim Ialeggio 11-14-2017 22:12

So I decided to CA an on-site cap.

The patient: August Forester 15yr old 190cm grand. Nice piano. I've been working on this piano for about 6 years. Excellent customer, regular full service appointments. Customer serious classical chops. Customer has serious ears, and performs. All the piano's systems in excellent condition, with the exception of the bridge.

Bridge is not up to the rest of the instrument…long bridge from D5 (or so) down is solid flat sawn European something like maple-ish, no cap. Scarf jointed in the fifth octave, where it incorporates a very weird cap, glued up edge to edge pieces 1.5" wide perpendicular to the center line of the bridge. All these edge glued pieces have very fine hairline cracks forming. Its not falling apart, and pins are not visually looking compromised, but boy what a racket.

False beats from #36-88. Tenor notes, the entire flat sawn part, where I don't usually hear false beating, exhibited a slow moan…each string having a slightly different speed, slow moan in the attack. Screwdriver test proved the pins as culprit. Doesn't look bad, but the moan was there and defining the tone of the instrument in that area as quite nasty in the attack. Hard to tune. This section was tonally suffering from the untuneable attacks, and is the section that drove my decision to do this treatment.

False beats on every string in the treble. Faster classic treble beating giving the treble a shimmering poorly defined pitch – Responded to the screwdriver test also. I could have lived with this section, as I could tune it, and it has a shimmery, though slightly harsh tone. But the tenor needed fixing.

Since I don't usually do triage CA work, I read up on various CA treatment protocols; Ron's article, numerous posts to lists. Decided on the strings in place, at tension, water thin CA approach. All noted the quick nature of the "fix"…Priced it as such.

There have been some reports of "tone dulling" in this treatment. Responses mostly finger Ca creeping onto the speaking parts of the termination. I did ask, during one of these threads whether the apparently "dulled tone" was caused by the false-ness going away, but never got any traction on that idea. Still suspected this was a serious potential problem, ie completely changing the tonal profile of the piano, by significantly changing the attack.

Though somewhat hesitant to try the treatment, especially given a client with serious ears and a hard to tune and stabilize piano, I did the treatment. Piano lost its voice big time, dull, lifeless, short sustain…customers very worried…I knew how to get it back, as I realized, after this happened, that the hammers and all the tone regulating prior to this had been based on the attack profile defined by the falseness.

I knew how to fix it, but had not factored that amount of time it would take to let down tension, remove and clean strings from the pins, clean cap, bring up pitch, lift coils, chip 3 times, fine tune twice, shape hammers, re-voice, and assure my client that is everything would be fine, into my bid.

The piano is sounding quite nice now. The falseness is completely gone, but it is definitely a different piano. This different-ness may or may not drive my customer nuts…we shall see.

If I ever do this again ("if" factors highly here), it will be a $2500 job, to get the falseness corrected, voiced and tuning stabilized. It ain't no quick fix, as a compass wide application, at least in my experience. If this is undertaken on a decent piano, serious tone regulating chops will be required.

Glue did stabilize the pins nicely, as advertised. However, applied at tension, glue crept under the strings on top of the bridge cap. CA under the strings, adheres the strings to cap, such that after it is tuned in this condition, the string/cap bond will let go, with the tuning failing over-night. Also CA at the termination had to be scraped away, as there were weird string noises from the imprecise terminations.

Removing the strings from the pins and cap is the only way I would ever do this again.

 



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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
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2.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-14-2017 23:08
<<Removing the strings from the pins and cap is the only way I would ever do this again.>>

A valuable piece of information -- and congratulations, Jim.

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Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
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3.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-14-2017 23:23
Probably about two years ago, when I posted here about the results of my first CA bridge pin treatment, which I did with the piano at pitch, and commented that the piano had experienced tone dulling as you call it, Ron replied pointing out that what I was probably hearing was the fact that all the high frequency noise that the false beating strings had been creating had been eliminated and what I was probably hearing was quiet. The loss of the unwanted noise that was making it shrill to start out with.

But then, after the glue had had the opportunity to completely dry and cure, I, too, experienced a loss of attack and some weird harmonics/partials being generated like you describe. Customer didn't complain so I was not aware of this change until the next tuning. And I, too, discovered that it was because the CA glue had ever so slightly crept under the strings on the speaking side of the bridge. I took a sharp pic, (gotta buy a strong, sharp hobby type pic as the used dental pics you can get from your dentist just aren't strong enough), and cleaned out the offending drips. Many of them were invisible but it obviously didn't take much to have an effect. I chipped out the glue and generally cleaned out that spot leaving the strings at full tension. Took all of about 20 minutes. When I was done I was left with the tone and sustain I was originally hoping for, and the false beats were gone.

Before treatment, the false beating strings from about the middle of the piano up to C88 made tuning this piano a horrible job. After the CA treatment, and cleaning up after that work, this piano sounds really nice. But being what it is, it is still not the easiest piano in the world to tune. But it's most definitely a lot easier, and sounds better when I'm done, so I no longer hate it.

Since neither the tuning nor the voicing had been compromised prior to treatment, total time for CA treatment, and subsequent clean up could not have been more than two or three hours.

Is this piano different now? You betcha! Different in a totally positive improved way.

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Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
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4.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-15-2017 09:37
Jim,

Although it's now water under the bridge, when discussing jobs of this type (meaning somewhat unpredictable) I make sure the client knows in advance that things could go smoothly, or more usually, there will be collateral effects that will have to be dealt with which MAY multiply the cost significantly. Can't predict everything.  "If you want me to proceed I will, under these conditions..."

I know you don't need me to tell you this, and now of course you have proof of this fact which you will now refer to next time.

I call it "college" when it has happened to me (a few too many times...thus the warning to the client).

Maybe someone will devise a way to prevent the CA from adhering to everything else besides where we want it. ?

Pwg

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Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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5.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-15-2017 09:26
I have yet to experience the tone-dulling. Did you apply the CA and then quickly use a paper towel to absorb any drips?

Letting down the tension as you did would be my last resort instead of the first. Did you try using a pick?

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John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
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6.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-15-2017 09:32
HI John,

I let down tension as a last resort too.  Only after the fact. If there is a next time I will get the strings off the bridge first.

As far a paper towel, liquid immediately wicked underneath the strings on top of the cap.

Another interesting thing happened...in the treble, not the tenor, but the treble section with the cap. When I applied the CA, pitch jumped by about 20-30c. I can't explain why, as it makes no sense, but it did it consistently... the treble went wildy out of tune, just from the application of the CA.


------------------------------
Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
------------------------------



7.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-15-2017 09:38
The first time I did a CA job (10+ years ago), I let down the tension. I haven't done that since, but also haven't done that many either.

That is really weird about the pitch changing so much and so quickly.

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John Formsma, RPT
New Albany MS
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8.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-15-2017 11:20
I'll bet that the pitch jumped because the wood swelled up a bit when you applied the CA. Probably did it on every string that received treatment to some extent, but obviously much more noticeable in the high treble area.

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Geoff Sykes, RPT
Los Angeles CA
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9.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-15-2017 21:40
Mr.Ialeggio,

First, condolences on finding that there were snakes hiding in the weeds. Second, congratulations on getting everything put back together. Your initial post seems to leave some relevant questions unanswered. The first being who wanted to do the repair in the first place? Was your client with the serious chops and great ears asking for something to be done about the tone or was it your suggestion? Did your experience of the false beats and unfocused attack with the resulting difficulties in tuning lead you to the conclusion that the piano "must" be fixed? The second being how did the hammers come to be in the condition they were in? Did a prior tone regulator voice them thusly in compensation for the tonal irregularities or had you been nursing them along until you just couldn't  take it any more? As it stands now you have done a great service for the piano.The more important question is whether you have done the same for your client. There is a danger that our love affair with the craft can blind us to the reality that we aren't working for the instrument but rather for those who are playing it.

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Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
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10.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-15-2017 23:19
Excellent and astute comments...and on the mark.


<who wanted to do the repair in the first place? 

Complicated...Since I have been able to create for her what others had not been able to create, this client basically requests my input, opinion, etc., and gives me free reign.  So, given the relationship, and my understanding of her tastes, it was my suggestion.  On the other hand, since I know how particular she is, (I should add, she is always on the mark, rather than just hard to please), I often avoid suggesting things I know need doing because turning up her tonal acuity takes time to resolve.

This one I went back and forth for a while before broaching the subject.  Mentioned it 6 months ago, and got the go ahead before the fall tuning.

Its interesting...some good pianists get comfortable in the "usual" sound of their instrument, even though that "usual" tone is degrading, sometimes seriously. When sound is the "usual" , the actual sound is not as present as when they are paying attention to it.  For example, I spent a fair amount of time, re-voicing parts of the scale where no CA had been applied. These areas exhibited the same tonal profile they had exhibited before the CA treatment. They had not been an issue to her before the CA treatment, but she was now listening and looking for unevenness and attack stridency, they were present and required attention.

So as someone a client puts trust in, I feel its my duty to point out deficiencies that are becoming more present. The decision to "turn on" a client's tonal acuity is not one I make lightly.  That said, I brought the subject up 6 months ago.

<Did your experience of the false beats and unfocused attack with the resulting difficulties in tuning lead you to the conclusion that the piano "must" be fixed? 


again, complicated. I told her it was making tuning this piano, which is already quite difficult to tune with stability, even harder to tune. But I also said it did not have to be done, and I would be happy to tune it with or without the treatment. That said, with each subsequent tuning, the sound of the instrument  was departing more and more significantly from a place which she, in previous tone regulation sessions, clearly expressed she wanted it to be. To cover my ass, my instinct was to keep my mouth shut. To support her as the pro she values, both financially and verbally, and as a regular and committed customer, I felt it was increasingly "necessary".   I chose not to cover my ass…I think correctly…but time will tell.

 <how did the hammers come to be in the condition they were in?

Acquired this customer after another tech "reshaped" the hammers. With what I now know about shaping, I would have reshaped on the spot the first time I saw the piano, but, back then, I was able to get what she wanted with regulation and needles, and dead nuts tuning. Its interesting, the more I understand about the effect of shape on the tone and attack, the less I find myself needling these days…and sometimes just really nailing unisons gets the job done without either.

<The more important question is whether you have done the same for your client.

Again complicated. You are right in one sense. But there's more to the picture. During the "recovery" of the tone, she was elated that the sound was coming back. Came into the room every time an improvement happened. Then, at the end, a cloud seemed to settle over her.

 I saw this cloud descend. As a musician, very acutely aware of my own tendencies to behave like a drug addict when I'm around music, as I watched her on this occasion and on others descend into this nether world of expectations which cannot be satisfied, at least temporarily, we talked about the destructiveness of excessive expectations…we talk about stuff…As I was making my points about realistic expectations, she described the experience of going over the expectations deep end as, in her words, "exhausting"…so she knows well what the game is.

I am actually becoming more and more comfortable setting parameters of expectations with my good clients, as without a clear discussion of what is reasonable, given unrealistic expectations which are the stock and trade of high price piano land, neither I or my clients will be happy. This may seem presumptive, but I would argue it is not presumptive…merely honest in a way that allows reality to offer its comforting presence. Pianos are far from perfect or perfectible. I strive to get them pretty damn good, but am clear with myself and my clients that the notion of perfection destroys.

Karl, from your comments, you must have traversed this landscape too…no?

 







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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
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11.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-16-2017 07:09
"Karl, from your comments, you must have traversed this landscape too…no?"

Aye captain. More times and in more ways than a smarter person would have.

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Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
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12.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-16-2017 10:56
Good discussion!

Pwg

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Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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13.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 11-17-2017 00:42
What I got out of this tragedy avoided story, is the bad idea of experimenting on a customer's piano. IMHO, before offering a procedure as part as one's services, it should be worked out (along with any potential problems) in advance. On the second part (again easy to prove in the shop)- the idea of epoxy wicking onto the speaking length and having a dulling effect. Seems as obvious as a mouse attracted to peanut butter on a spinning bottle trap to me.
But that's another story.
-chris
#caveman​​

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I have a piano in my Nuclear Fallout Shelter, and my competitors don't. How silly is that?

chernobieffpiano.com
865-986-7720
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14.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 29 days ago
It is always interesting to read other experiences that are sharply at odds with one's own. FWIW, I have CA'd bridge pins with strings in place many, many times. Have not yet experienced any tone dulling phenomenon.

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Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
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15.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 29 days ago
Fred,
Have you done full compass CA jobs, or single/several note applications, or both?

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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
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16.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 29 days ago
Jim and Fred-
It might help to get comparative details from you both.
What brand and conditions of pianos?
Vertical or grand?
What kind of coating on the bridge tops?
Brand of CA and method of application?
Thanks!

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Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
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17.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 29 days ago
Also, was the bottle of CA glue freshly opened or had it been used before?

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Peter Stevenson RPT
P.S. Piano Service
Prince George BC
250-562-5358
ps@pspianos.com
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18.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 29 days ago
Also, HOW MUCH was put on each bridge pin? Surely that will affect whether it wants to glue the wire to the bridge top?

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Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
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19.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 29 days ago

Grand - August Foerester 170, 1996 manufacture. Regularly serviced by me, tunings twice a year, 2 day regulation a couple of years ago, original hammers, heavily played, hammers to be replaced next time shaping is required, if not before, Renner hammers - dense.

Excellent condition all around except for the bridge which was constructed very poorly. Solid european hardwood bridge root, no cap in the agrafffes sections, flat sawn, scarf jointed, scarfed in the capo area. Capo area of bridge capped in a very odd fashion that I still can't quite figure out. As I mentioned in the OP 1.5" pieces of some quarted stock, the 1'5" pieces edge glued perpendicular to the center line of the bridge. These cap glue joints are opening, but not cracking away from the root, just opening.

Condition of cap and pins – actually looks okay. No obvious visual distortions of the holes in the tenor, and very slight widening of the holes in the capo. Only one pin at the capo strut with a visually widened hole. However, despite reasonable visual condition, every string from C4-C8 was false and responded to the screwdriver test.

 Tenor agraffe area slow moaning beats in the attack made for a noisy attack, with an indistinct pitch. Capo, classic fast shimmering beats.

 Board still good with sustain, but is showing signs of a lowering of impedance. The lower impedance of the board is asking for a softer hammer at this point, as given the filed hard Renner hammers, it is a bit too easy to drive the notes to break up earlier than one would like, despite voicing. 

 No dag on the cap, as is common on European pianos.

 CA, dryburgh red (water viscosity), fresh…just bought it from dryburgh this past week.

 Application, strings on, up to tension. Pipette application. Since the pin holes, as I said, were not seriously elongated, at least visually, application of CA went under the strings on the cap and into the hole at about an equal rate, adhering the strings to the bridge cap. This as opposed to more elongated holes in really beat caps, which allow the CA to be drawn first and exclusively into the holes. Because of this pin/string equal capillary action the strings adhered to the flat of the bridge cap, and built up some CA at the pin termination, mostly on the right string. There was a small CA build up at the pins in general. 

 Application rate may have been a bit generous, but on the other hand, I did have to repeat apply a fair number of pins to kill the beats. All CA applied in the same 1.5hr initial session. Left it overnight and came back the next day to work on it.

When I came back the next day, there were some isolated string termination noises. I cleaned the obvious termination noises with a dental pick, and tuned. Came back the next day, to see the fresh tuning was history. The adhered strings on the cap flat let go helter skelter. When I heard the failed tuning is when I let the tension down and got further into it.   



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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
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20.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 29 days ago
...forgot...CA only applied to front row of pins

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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
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21.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 29 days ago
So, perhaps there is an argument for NOT using thin CA on bridge pins.  I've had success using one drop of medium CA on the back side of bridge pins.  It seems to be drawn in around the pin, but doesn't travel easily to the string, etc.  It is labeled "gap filling".

Also, I've commented before about the video the PTG has posted demonstrating CA application to bridge pins.  It is an over the top application and in my estimation WAAAY TOO MUCH CA.

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Tim Coates
Sioux Falls SD
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22.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 28 days ago
As some may already know, CA viscosities can be mixed to achieve a "custom" viscosity. I do this routinely when I need something a little more substantive than the water thin, or a little less than the medium (or whatever).

The only rule is that you must remain in the same "family" of chemicals. There are at least two families of CA. If you cross over the family line it will cure almost instantly. Probably not what you want.

I have also found the flexible formula to be more to my liking in most wood work (although NOT for bridge pins). In the pinblock it gives a more normal feel in tuning.

Pwg

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Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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23.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 28 days ago
I can't remember all makes and models. some instruments I can remember specifically: twice on Young Chang grands, capo area only (that's where the false beats were). A couple older Steinway grands (don't remember models), perhaps one or both capo sections. A few uprights, octaves 5 through top. There have been more, but they run together in my memory.

I apply a drop to the back of each front termination pin, moving fairly rapidly. The CA wicks back along the bridge top toward the back pin, but that is just an observation, not something I am judging particularly. For the uprights, they are laid on their backs. These have all been university pianos, where I have the convenience of being able to do the work as part of regular recurring prep.

I have simply done these sections as a whole, not paying particular attention to each and every unison. I have found that the improvement is quite noticeable overall. If there is still some falseness in some strings, this has not been enough of an issue for me to feel the need to re-apply. The result always means that I am able to center unisons much better and more easily. It has never been a matter of dealing with a client's concerns, just making my own life easier. The most noticeable result, apart from making my work a little more efficient and less frustrating, is a cleaner sound, due to my ability to make the unisons better.

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Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
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24.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 28 days ago
Fred,
I’m wondering if the key to this discussion is the little word ...a DROP. Maybe too much spells trouble. I remember Nossaman said we could probably put molasses on the pins and it would do the same. I think meaning just a little goes a long way.

Sent from my iPhone




25.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 27 days ago
IMO, too much of almost anything spells trouble.

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Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
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26.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 27 days ago
Edited by Ed Sutton 27 days ago
So am I correct in thinking that all of Fred's pianos had graphite on the bridge tops and that Jim's Foerester had a varnished or open wood bridge top?

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Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
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27.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 27 days ago
If memory serves, you are correct, Ed, in that the pianos Fred reported about did have graphite on their bridge caps, and that Jim's did not. (I don't know if Jim's had varnish, as a humidity barrier, alone, or possibly followed by soapstone, for ease of rendering.) But that is a small sampling. Geoff reported trouble with glue coupling the string to the forward notch on a piano that, I believe, had a graphite-covered cap.

As Susan pointed out, too much of anything--even a GOOD thing--will be counter-productive. I suspect also that the method of application (where, at what rate, and follow-up apps, if any) is what's responsible for these seemingly contradictory reports.

Alan

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Alan Eder, RPT
Herb Alpert School of Music
California Institute of the Arts
Valencia, CA
661.904.6483
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28.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 27 days ago
As per the bridge cap top coating, there was a thin coating of finish on the cap. CA did adhere to the flat but broke free easily and CA scraped off relatively easily, completely. As opposed to the chisel cut which was not finished as the end grain from the cut, absorbed and held on to CA aggressively.

So quanity CA figures in the need to take the tension down and correct...point made and received gratefully.

But, I do want to refocus this on the second aspect of my OP regarding "dulling" the tone. Having cleaned up the excess the hard way, all it did tonally was clean up termination noises, and allow the strings to render on the flat of the cap during tuning. The more serious effects, on a decent but slightly ailing instrument, is that an apparent the "dulling" of the tone is possible. I say apparent, because "dulling" actually is a misnomer. In this case, the success of the CA treatment, significantly changed the tonal profile of the instrument...Changed meaning, the client had gradually gotten used to the progressively worsening shrill attack in the tenor, and shimmering movement of the capo section (only one long capo section a5-up). I think, on a decent instrument, where someone with expectations is listening, this aspect should be known as a potential issue and discussed beforehand. Shaping of hammers in the capo brought clarity and presence back to the capo section, and shaping/needling created a nice warmth in the tenor. But, if a client with expectations is listening, this change may take some getting used to, as the attack sound pressure, which many good pianists use to gauge their playing, has been changed.

I think the potential "dulling" reference should be recognized not as something the CA did to the wire or termination, but rather the successful elimination of falseness has the potential to change the tonal landscape for certain ears...irrespective of how much CA may have been applied.


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Jim Ialeggio
grandpianosolutions.com
Shirley, MA
978 425-9026
------------------------------



29.  RE: CA on bridge pins…a follow-up…ughh

Posted 27 days ago
I think all the bridges I have treated with CA had graphite. However, I doubt that has much bearing on anything. I will try to be more specific about the amount of material used.

Though I said I watch the CA wick along the string toward the rear pin, that is mere observation, having my eyes open and paying attention. It happens fast, shows that I am applying about the same amount to each pin, and the CA is absorbed almost instantaneously, no pooling. I am virtually certain there would be no little raised grooves of CA if I were to remove a string later (though I would have to actually do that to be certain. Maybe I'll get around to that some day).

Once I have finished dosing the top capo sections, about three octaves, the amount of liquid used will not be obvious by looking at the bottle. the level may have gone down by 1 - 3 mm or so, not something a quick glance would judge. I use 1 oz bottles of CA, and a bottle lasts me a year (at which point I replace due to shelf life issues). Similarly, when dosing loose tuning pins, I can do an entire bass and tenor section and use no more than 1/4 of a 1 oz. bottle, if that.

I suspect much of the difference in experience stems precisely from the amount of material used. I know that some folks use an entire 4 oz bottle of CA or more dosing a pin block. To me, that is simply crazy, mammoth overkill. John Parham's video showed the use of far more CA than I would ever use in that circumstance (applied with strings in place). It served, very well indeed, to demonstrate that false beats are (often, at least) caused by loose bridge pins, and that applying CA can cure that problem. It probably shouldn't be used as a demo for how to do the job.

I do use more material when I do a partial restring on a grand. I remove the tuning pins, surface the bridge, notch as needed, then squirt CA in about six bridge pin holes at a time, and then hammer in that many pins. I fill each hole, more or less (it mostly gets absorbed, doesn't squeeze out). And I use somewhat thicker CA, medium.

As an aside, I'll add that I coat the pins with McLube - put them in a small jar lid, pour a few drops of McLube on them, move them around until all have got a bit wet, allow to dry. I do that because I have found that CA'd bridge pins can cause cussing when trying to remove them (not to mention what epoxied pins do). To the extent that in trying to remove one, the exposed part simply breaks off. But that is another topic.

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Fred Sturm
University of New Mexico
fssturm@unm.edu
http://fredsturm.net
http://www.artoftuning.com
"We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda
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