Pianotech

Subject: Steinway Sostinuto

1.  Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 27 days ago
Working on a Steinway B with a sostinuto that is not working. My experience has been that the pitman is brass. This one is a wood dowell. Did the rebuilder loose the brass pitman?

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------


2.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 27 days ago
Edited by Benjamin Sanchez 27 days ago
Larry,

What exactly is not working? Is it that not all the dampers will stay up? Or does the pedal not move the bar?

I don’t see how changing the brass for wood would cause it to malfunction. But I could be misinformed.

------------------------------
Benjamin Sanchez
Professional Piano Services
(805)315-8050
www.professional-piano-services.com
BenPianoPro@comcast.net
------------------------------



3.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 27 days ago
Dowell seems to be stuck in the bushed hole. I'm suspecting it is full on rotated so it doesn't interfere with playing

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------



4.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 27 days ago
The sos pitman is wooden with a felt punching glued to the bottom end. It should be free in the hole, you might need to sand the diameter a bit narrower and dust it with Teflon powder.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
------------------------------



5.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 27 days ago
The one i removed to install a Piano Disc was brass.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------



6.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 27 days ago
Save the trap work and store it in a box on the ledge above the bass leg. Someday, someone will want to revert the piano back to strictly manual. I even store the casters when I place a grand on a truck or leg dollies. Archive, don't discard.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
------------------------------



7.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 27 days ago
Did that, 20 years ago.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------



8.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 27 days ago
I may be looking at the S&S Worldwide reference later this evening but don't most  S&S sostenuto rails connect to the monkey which is in turn connected to the dowel with a bushed connector ? I think the brass pitman was used in the larger hole to lift the damper tray until 1987 when Steinway went to a different design using a wooden dowel that does not contact the sides of the hole in the keybed.

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------



9.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 27 days ago
Floating pitman for sustain pedal is a wooden dowel  (diamter 1/2" - 5/8") capped on each end with a somewhat larger diameter action cloth punching, which   is captured in flat-bottomed holes (of same size as punchings) drilled into underside of damper tray and top side of sustain trapwork.
Larry - you haven't indicated what it is that's not working.

------------------------------
David Skolnik
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
------------------------------



10.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 27 days ago
David, sostinuto not sustain.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------



11.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 26 days ago
Actually, Larry, it's sostEnuto, not sostinuto.  Mydescription of the floating pitman now used in Steinway was a failed attempt to amplify James Kelly's description.  In fact, I've never seen a sostenuto pitman in brass... always been wood.
Also, I was mistaken.  You did, describe the problem, sort of.  You said
I'm suspecting it is full on rotated so it doesn't interfere with playing
Not sure what that means.  I haven't installed Piano disc.  Did you ultimately get it to work, with or without piano disc?

------------------------------
David Skolnik
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
------------------------------



12.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 26 days ago
Thanks for the spell check David. The Piano Disc install was 20 or so years ago and it did have a brass pitman.  This is a different piano rebuilt by someone less than completely reputable. I am not out to get them into any sort of trouble. Just wonder if it is "one more thing" I didn't have time to look inside the piano but from how high up the pitman I suspect the blade is rotated above the tabs.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------



13.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 26 days ago
The installer of the player system most likely disconnected the sostenuto to do the install of the player components and the key solenoids. Not sure what was done or not done but some installers take short cuts or fail to work out a fix. I would have to look at my player install manuals to see what provisions/mods or relocations need to be done to have a full working sostenuto. The different player makers have different methods when it comes to use the damper /una chorda and sostenuto with and without the player. You should perhaps talk to the Piano Disc tech people,

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------



14.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 26 days ago
James this is not a player. It's a rebuilt 1920's Steinway B with a dowel for sostenuto pitman. I wanted to know if it was originally that way or if it had the brass pitman of the L I converted to a player 20 or so years ago.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------



15.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 26 days ago
Did someone swap the brass damper pitman with the wooden sostenuto pitman?

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
------------------------------



16.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 26 days ago
So maybe I understand a little better, though, I'm not sure how you can tell that the pitman is elevated if you didn't pull the action.  In any case, something could have happened with the spring, or the sos rod might be excessively tight in the brackets, but you'll probably figure it out once you've had a chance to play with it.

------------------------------
David Skolnik
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
------------------------------



17.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 26 days ago
There is a gap of about an inch from the trap lever to the bottom of the dowel. That's why I think it is over rotated.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT
Bringing Harmony to Homes
www.lacrossepianotuning.com
ljmesserly@gmail.com
928-899-7292
------------------------------



18.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 26 days ago
Sounds like the spring IS disengaged.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
------------------------------



19.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 26 days ago
David, sostinuto not sustain.

------------------------------
Larry Messerly, RPT

Actually, Sostenuto is Italian for sustain.
LOL
-chris
#caveman


------------------------------
I have a piano in my Nuclear Fallout Shelter, and my competitors don't. How silly is that?

chernobieffpiano.com
865-986-7720
------------------------------



20.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 25 days ago
Edited by Peter Grey 25 days ago
The "leaf" spring in the action bearing on the monkey. I'm pretty sure that's what you're talking about Jon, right? I would agree.

Screws could be stripped, or monkey disengaged from spring, or monkey missing.

And I've never seen a brass sostenuto pitman, always wood.
Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------



21.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 25 days ago
Well then, what is the sostenuto (middle) pedal called in Italian?  Or, for that matter, the right (our 'sustain') pedal?  It is somewhat odd that we require two languages to define pedals.

------------------------------
David Skolnik
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
------------------------------



22.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 25 days ago
According to a local spirited church piano player, the right pedal is the tempo pedal.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
------------------------------



23.  RE: Steinway Sostinuto

Posted 25 days ago
Well, at least that gives us three Italian terms.

------------------------------
David Skolnik
Hastings-on-Hudson NY
914-231-7565
------------------------------