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Hamburg "D"

  • 1.  Hamburg "D"

    Posted 03-01-2018 16:05
    I have a customer who is looking at a Hamburg 1998 Steinway "D" that arrived here (Seattle) from New York. This piano has a polyester finish with large expansion cracks on the lid. My question to our East Coast technicians; are large compression cracks common on S​​teinway polyester
    finishes living on the East Coast?
    Roger

    ------------------------------
    Roger Gable
    Gable Piano
    Everett WA
    425-252-5000
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Hamburg "D"

    Posted 03-01-2018 16:23
    Hi, Roger,

    While I can't speak for all Hamburgs, I've seen similar problems from
    San Diego to Sacramento and as far East as Salt Lake City and
    Scottsdale. Much seems to have to do with whatever the storage
    environment might be; but, I suspect that there might be other
    variables, as well.

    So far, I haven't seen any that, for me, have interfered with anything
    other than visual aesthetics...certainly nothing musical.

    Kind regards.

    Horace

    On 3/1/2018 1:04 PM, Roger Gable via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
    > Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
    >
    > I have a customer who is looking at a Hamburg 1998 Steinway "D" that arrived here (Seattle)??from New York. This piano has a polyester finish with large expansion cracks on the lid. My question to our East Coast technicians; are large compression cracks common on S??????teinway polyester
    > finishes living on the East Coast?
    > Roger
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > Roger Gable
    > Gable Piano
    > Everett WA
    > 425-252-5000
    > ------------------------------
    >
    >
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    >




  • 3.  RE: Hamburg "D"

    Posted 03-01-2018 20:55
    Can you get some pictures and post them ? Its possible they are cold cracks from temperature extremes, storage in cold and brought into high heat etc. I had a customer that had his piano refinished in Italy with what looked like 100 layers of epoxy. It was cracked like a windshield after a baseball hit it. If the piano is sound and they still want to pursue it the lid can get redone by Cavaleri in New York.

    ------------------------------
    James Kelly
    Pawleys Island SC
    843-325-4357
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Hamburg "D"

    Posted 03-02-2018 15:04
    It may be common even on the West Coast.  There is one here on the California coast - from that era - with a polyester crack on the top fly leaf.  The piano has lived in a fairly climate controlled environment and moved carefully.

    ------------------------------
    Thomas Armstrong
    Salinas CA
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  • 5.  RE: Hamburg "D"

    Posted 03-02-2018 15:19
    ‎Hi, Tom,

    If we're thinking of the same instrument, it was dropped (on the lid) while being moved out of the venue where it is housed for the building remodel some 15 - 18 years ago.   Since "fault" could never really be assigned, and, no one has wanted to spend the money, the lid has never been repaired/replaced.   I'm reliably informed that a wholebuncha work is going to be done on it this Summer. So, we'll see if the lid issues are addressed.   Sure hope so...it's looked pretty ugly for a long time now.

    Hope all is well.

    Best.

    Horace

      Original Message




  • 6.  RE: Hamburg "D"

    Posted 03-02-2018 15:41
    I think cracks form when the piano freezes. Dissimilar materials (plastic/wood), different expansion rates.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Hamburg "D"

    Posted 03-03-2018 08:00
    And the poly is unable to move with the wood, right?

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Hamburg "D"

    Posted 03-05-2018 06:32
    Edited by Jon Page 03-05-2018 06:34
    Just got electricity back after two days. You don't know what you've got till it's gone...

    Yes, something happens in the process. Much the same as Yamaha and some other brands have keys that crack because of the wood expansion. But that is from a rigid glue line, a more flexible bond would not have the problem. I can't imagine an interface between wood and a plastic finish to avoid this.

    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page


  • 9.  RE: Hamburg "D"

    Posted 03-05-2018 13:39
    Good Morning!

    Actually, in reading these latter posts, I am realizing that there's a
    bit of information missing.

    Unless things have changed a good deal (always possible in this
    business), most polyester finishes on pianos are not (usually) applied
    directly to wood surfaces. Rather, there is a thin layer of fiberglass
    which goes on first. It is applied, allowed to cure; and then sanded an
    polished to where a polyester finish will not only "take", but adhere.

    Understanding that I am neither a chemical nor mechanical engineer, I
    _think_ that the reasoning around that is that, to a certain limited
    extent, the fiberglass mitigates the various changes in dimension
    between the wood core and the poly finish.

    ...Of course...it goes without saying that I could be wrong...it's
    happened enough over the years to be noticeable.

    Kind regards.

    Horace

    On 3/5/2018 3:32 AM, Jon Page via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
    > Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
    >
    > Just got electricity back after two days. You don't know what you've got till it's gone...
    >
    > Yes, something happens in the process. Much the same as Yamaha and some other brands have keys that crack because of the wood expansion. But that is from a rigid glue line, a more flexible bond would not have the problem. I can't imagine an interface between wood and ??a a plastic finish to avoid this.
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > Regards,
    >
    > Jon Page
    > ------------------------------
    > -------------------------------------------
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 03-03-2018 07:59
    > From: Peter Grey
    > Subject: Hamburg "D"
    >
    > And the poly is unable to move with the wood, right?
    >
    > Pwg
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > Peter Grey
    > Stratham NH
    > 603-686-2395
    > pianodoctor57@gmail.com <pianodoctor57@gmail.com>
    > ------------------------------
    >
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 03-02-2018 15:40
    > From: Jon Page
    > Subject: Hamburg "D"
    >
    > I think cracks form when the piano freezes. Dissimilar materials (plastic/wood), different expansion rates.
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > Regards,
    >
    > Jon Page
    >
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 03-01-2018 16:04
    > From: Roger Gable
    > Subject: Hamburg "D"
    >
    > I have a customer who is looking at a Hamburg 1998 Steinway "D" that arrived here (Seattle)??from New York. This piano has a polyester finish with large expansion cracks on the lid. My question to our East Coast technicians; are large compression cracks common on S??????teinway polyester
    > finishes living on the East Coast?
    > Roger
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > Roger Gable
    > Gable Piano
    > Everett WA
    > 425-252-5000
    > ------------------------------
    >
    >
    > Reply to Sender : http://my.ptg.org/eGroups/PostReply/?GroupId=43&SenderKey=53c516c8-67a0-49e5-8394-1d8dcccd04d6&MID=686823&MDATE=756%253d45845%253a&UserKey=3feecf45-4a69-4cff-bbb2-fd6c7eaf0569&sKey=KeyRemoved
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    >




  • 10.  RE: Hamburg "D"

    Posted 03-05-2018 15:18
    ...Of course...it goes without saying that I could be wrong...it's
    happened enough over the years to be noticeable.

    If we learn by our mistakes, I'll be a genius very soon...


    ------------------------------
    Regards,

    Jon Page
    ------------------------------