As a resident of southern Oregon, I could easily imagine a similar fate for Ashland--much of the town, especially the expensive houses up the mountain with the views, are located in pretty densely forested areas. Even a 100-foot defensible space seems like a joke to me.
--Thinning is simply not realistic for the vast areas of forest. There's simply too much forest, much of it inaccessible. The Klamathon fire, which was largely responsible for the smoke that filled the Rogue valley this summer, was (is--I think it's still smoldering) in a remote area. Few roads, very steep mountains. There's no way to thin (or rake) these remote areas. These burns, even at a distance, can severely impact local economies, especially ones that rely on tourism. Sending in crews to thin remote areas could even increase the danger with chain saws, trucks, or heavy machinery that can spark fires. There are some who think the fantastically expensive air drops actually make things worse. I heard one theory that the orange stuff (phosphates?) is a potent fertilizer, which causes easily combustible growth to spring up after a fire.
--While fire breaks can be created, this open ground can fill with easily-combustible growth. Unintended consequences. It's not only hot dry weather that causes fires. Paradoxically, so does a rainy spring, which can cause the growth of combustible material.
--While our biggest natural fire danger is dry thunderstorms, most of the the big fires have been caused by people:
Fireworks in the big Columbia gorge fire (and many locally). It's hard to fathom why any fireworks at all are allowed to be sold in southern Oregon. We even had a fire started by an official July 4 fireworks show gone wrong.
A couple of big recent fires were caused by guys out mowing and other activities. The Redding fire was caused by a car. We've had fires started by camping vagrants, one of which burned an entire neighborhood. Even dry grass can catch: my own neighborhood was almost wiped out, likely by kids smoking behind a building nearby. Note that we don't live in a heavily-forested area: it's just dry, period.
People out here are demanding "solutions," but I'm not sure anyone has any. I've noticed many more dead and dying trees in the forests here, and neither the hotter summers nor the bark beetle infestation are helping. The smoke alone has caused a dip in the housing market.
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Scott Cole, RPT
rvpianotuner.com
Talent, OR
(541-601-9033
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Original Message:
Sent: 11-18-2018 20:51
From: Susan Kline
Subject: California fires
Real, first-hand expert information.
You shall know the truth -- and the truth shall set you free from shouting at each other.
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Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
Original Message:
Sent: 11-18-2018 19:19
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: California fires
I agree Kent! Thank you so much David for this well-informed post.
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[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]
Original Message:
Sent: 11-17-2018 08:38
From: Kent Burnside
Subject: California fires
David,
Thank you for that very cogent explanation. It makes a lot of sense, especially your last point about overdevelopment and population density.
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Kent Burnside, RPT
Franklin TN
615.430.0653
Original Message:
Sent: 11-16-2018 08:13
From: David Weiss
Subject: California fires
Between 1990, in 2000, I worked for the state of California doing natural resources management. Dealing with fires was a large part of my job; prevention, cleanup, and restoration. I was not in management, I worked in the forest. In this post I hope to clear up some misconceptions, and explain why prevention is not possible anymore.
The first misconception is the concept of forest thinning. Thinning a forest is destruction of habitat. A healthy ecosystem depends on dead trees, standing dead trees as well as those laying on the ground. There are scores of insects and birds that feed on or live in dead standing trees. Additionally dead trees slowly rotting on the forest floor are a critical part of an ecosystem. Last, in order to thin forests, roads need to be built into the forest. Obviously that leads to a tremendous amount of ecosystem destruction.
Another problem is the actual management of these areas. There are multiple agencies managing them, federal, state, and local. These large bureaucracies are not designed to work together. Even if they get along, they may have different purposes. Sometimes those purposes conflict. Also in a large government bureaucracy the right thing to do doesn't get done. This is because there are power struggles among people, frequent personnel or political changes, conflicting agendas, and the slow moving wheels of a large bureaucracy. Usually the people working in these agencies are good people, but the system just doesn't allow for efficiency.
As for prevention; periodic fires prevent massive fires. Throughout history forest fires have always occurred naturally and are the only healthy and natural way to maintain a thriving ecosystem. They naturally prevent the buildup of massive amounts of fuel. However given the population density of California that solution is not practical, except in small isolated areas.
Too many houses and communities have been built in areas where they absolutely should not be. Areas where it is impossible to prevent or defend a fire. But beyond that, there are simply too many people living in the state of California. The population far exceeds the carrying capacity of the land. Therefore only true way to prevent these catastrophic events is to very significantly reduce the population and number of buildings in California. Obviously that is not realistic.
David Weiss
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David Weiss
Charlottesville VA
434-823-9733
Original Message:
Sent: 11-15-2018 01:56
From: Susan Kline
Subject: California fires
Tim, I can't speak for the others, but I get the lists delivered by email. It's a lot harder to censor email, because if the posts have gone out by email, there has been no time to censor them, and once sent they are sent.
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Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
Original Message:
Sent: 11-14-2018 17:16
From: Tim Coates
Subject: California fires
I keep seeing a discussion under this thread with the first line or two. I click on a comment and only see the same initial 5 comments and none of the "recent" comments. Why are Susan Kline, David Skolnik, Karl Roeder and others able to follow and comment on a thread that it my world only has 5 comments?
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Tim Coates
Sioux Falls SD
Original Message:
Sent: 11-11-2018 17:53
From: Michael Kurta
Subject: California fires
Hi, Mike!Thank you for your concern
We had evacuated in 2 cars at 3am and went to my younger, rich cousin 20 miles away We are in full comfort and safety, their hospitality beats Marriott
Our neighbor managed to sneak and he send us a picture of our house
Everything is good, just a heavy smoke
Many of my clients in all affected areas had lost their homes
Be well
Best to all
Isaac
Sent from my iPhone
Isaac: I'm concerned about all these fires we're hearing about and how close are they to you? There was a mention about your town on the news. We hope all is well with....
Mike Kurta
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Mike Kurta, RPT
N. Michigan chapter
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