Pianotech

  • 1.  Stwy K trichords

    Member
    Posted 10-17-2018 23:42
    Advice please. Steinway K which I tuned a couple days ago. I pulled the action and did some voicing (sugarcoating using Coleman's teensy needles); put it back, checked the damper placement; noticed that the strings in the low tenor are awful close together; used the string spacing tool to open them up a tad; played, and thought O GOD I shouldn't have moved those strings! The trichord dampers no longer fit their trichords. I tried to put them back but the customer just called me about B2, E3 and F3, which are important repetitions in the piece she is performing, and there's a nasty after buzz. I know exactly what the problem is and I will go tomorrow to fix it. But how best to fit the dampers to match the strings in low tenor?

    On another forum where I asked the above, answers included: "Insert silk cord (or cotton thread) between the legs of the damper felt to spread them apart and put more pressure on the strings." "Steinway Verticals are notorious for Damper misbehaving due to Double Flanges arrangement....""Always make sure you know which string is leaking." "Using razor knife cut the groove between the legs deeper giving the legs more individual freedom.""Remove damper felt and replace"

    Update. I spent an hour attempting to fix this. For the six offending notes (B2 to E3) I used a sharp tool to scoop out the felt-goop accumulated between the legs. I used a jeweler's pliers to crimp the legs. I cut 4 lengths of cotton thread and inserted between all the legs. I strengthened all the damper springs. I massaged the string positions to what seemed right to my eye. I played and listened and damped with my finger. Most of them came out ok, but B2 (the bottom tenor) kept a maybe 14th partial and it was coming from the middle string. Pulled the middle string toward me - a little better but not gone. I noticed that the left edge of that damper (which contacts the leftmost string) had a ledge worn into it. Took a razor blade and shaved that side to be smooth. And a few notes in the bottom tenor left an after-ring, even though it was NOT from the struck strings (which I damped with my thumb). The piano maintained a sympathetic echo, ESPECIALLY on B2, and the customer is now hyper-sensitive and VERY concerned. I have pledged to make this better, although I have no idea why the whole piano has an after-ring when it's NOT the strings that I moved in the first place. I expect I will space strings, mate hammers, then glue new trichord dampers. (or do I have to replace the full set of dampers??)

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    Jason Kanter
    Lynnwood WA
    425-830-1561
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  • 2.  RE: Stwy K trichords

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-18-2018 01:10
    Oh Jason. This is a rabbit hole. Many of those sounds have likely been there all along. One thing to check if you haven't is to completely reassemble the piano to see how evident the harmonics are when it's all closed up and one is actually playing music on it.
    There are reasons Steinway didn't get famous for their uprights.

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    Steven Rosenthal
    Honolulu HI

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  • 3.  RE: Stwy K trichords

    Posted 10-18-2018 06:47
    It would help to install auxiliary damper blocks. I think Jurgen carries the retro-fit assemblies. They have the extension wire below the string plane instead of the hammers having to traverse thru the wires.

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    Regards,

    Jon Page
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  • 4.  RE: Stwy K trichords

    Posted 10-18-2018 09:29
    <This is a rabbit hole. Many of those sounds have likely been there all along  

    Unfortunately I agree...rabbit hole.  These pianos feature "Old Timey" after-ring...completely undisciplined sound, kind of like a hammer dulcimer that is trying to pretend it's a real instrument.

    With the exception of the things you fixed, most of the sounds were most likely there already. That Oldy-Timey after-ring is sympathetic ghosting partials from the minimally damped bass section wraps. The way to extricate yourself from this would be to find some ghosting wraps further down and prove that these sounds were there before...since you never touched the bass wires. This after ring is what the instrument is..and not going anywhere even with major work. Specific problem children where you moved the strings may respond to an added secondary damper, as Jon mentions.  

    My condolences...been there

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    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
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  • 5.  RE: Stwy K trichords

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-18-2018 11:50
    Jason,
    Those models are indeed tricky to quiet. I’m wondering if your cleaning up the damper/string mating is what is allowing you and the customer to now hear the echo that was beforehand being masked as part of the overall tone of the piano.
    Getting your attention away from there now becomes the difficult issue. We’ve all seen our clients and ourselves get mired over one aspect that clouds the forest for the tree in front of us. You’re also dealing with the longest strings and shortest dampers (does it have an over damper?) in the whole piano.

    Sorry this is not advice, but I vibrate sympathetically with you.

    Joe Wiencek




  • 6.  RE: Stwy K trichords

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-22-2018 10:08
    Jason,

    I'm not sure that strengthening the springs was necessarily a good idea (unless they were really weak). If it's a nodal thing, that will simply exacerbate the problem (I think).

    Although the aux damper may "fix" it, I think I would try adding a little weight to the damper head first. CA a small lead weight on it and see if it improves. If so, drill it out and make it permanent. This would also be true of leaking bass dampers. Of course if it does nothing you're back to square one.

    Also, as you probably know, sometimes it only takes a tiny fraction of an inch difference in placement to quiet (or amplify) a high ringing partial.

    All around a frustrating situation.  Suggestion: show her this thread so she can be helped to understand that there is more involved here than simply what you "did". 

    Pwg

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    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
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