Pianotech

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Many Yamaha models of all sizes seem to display  these symptoms , often its the bottom board itself , try whacking in a door stop wedge between floor and bottom board   (never leave home without them in different sizes soundboard/rib buzzes etc)

------------------------------
Martin Snow
Boston MA
617-543-1030
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:59
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

What about the pedal board itself? Does not take much to create a hair pulling situation. Of course you'd have to tilt the thing to find out.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Peter wrote: "What about the pedal board itself? Does not take much to create a hair pulling situation. Of course you'd have to tilt the thing to find out."

The possibility of the creak coming from the bottom board came to me last night, as I do remember observing a small amount of flex in the board when using the pedal. I'll shove something under there to check that out.

I am curious what your thinking is with your recommendation to tilt the piano. What would that do? Or  tilt it and do what?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:59
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

What about the pedal board itself? Does not take much to create a hair pulling situation. Of course you'd have to tilt the thing to find out.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

An offset screwdriver can often be used to tighten bottom board screws without tilting piano.

Bob Anderson
Tucson, AZ


Original Message------

What about the pedal board itself? Does not take much to create a hair pulling situation. Of course you'd have to tilt the thing to find out.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message------

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Hi Terry,

It's always something very simple. I really like how you started off eliminating things before acting. Many times, I've done many procedures that were not required when I eventually found out what the problem was.

Let me change your sequence:

You removed the vertical rod and noticed that the sustain pedal still squeaked.
If I put (downward?) pressure on the spring the creak stops...  (you still haven't acted yet but noticed a possible solution).

At this point Martin suggests:

try whacking in a door stop wedge between floor and bottom board (that is pressure upward)

Paul.

------------------------------
Paul Brown, RPT
President
Piano Technicians Guild
Vancouver, BC Canada
Email: pres@ptg.org
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

​The door stop technique brings to mind another common problem which can make noise. The shiny polyester finish, when in contact with another polyester-finished part, is incredibly noisy from the most minuscule motion. A thin layer of VJ lube along the contact areas will permanently quiet things down. The most common, of course, is the noisy creaking from bench legs in contact with the sides of the bench. You remove one leg at a time, put a thin layer of VJ lube on the contact area (where you can see a very suggesting extremely fine white powder) then put the legs back on. You don't need to do it more than once. Another place to look is where the kick board touches other case parts. Pedaling is enough to shift the kick board slightly.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 22:09
From: Paul Brown
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Hi Terry,

It's always something very simple. I really like how you started off eliminating things before acting. Many times, I've done many procedures that were not required when I eventually found out what the problem was.

Let me change your sequence:

You removed the vertical rod and noticed that the sustain pedal still squeaked.
If I put (downward?) pressure on the spring the creak stops...  (you still haven't acted yet but noticed a possible solution).

At this point Martin suggests:

try whacking in a door stop wedge between floor and bottom board (that is pressure upward)

Paul.

------------------------------
Paul Brown, RPT
President
Piano Technicians Guild
Vancouver, BC Canada
Email: pres@ptg.org

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

An alternative to lube on rubbing benches is to place double-sided tape onto the ends of the sides. A Don Maninno tip.

------------------------------
Regards,

Jon Page
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 01:21
From: Susan Kline
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

​The door stop technique brings to mind another common problem which can make noise. The shiny polyester finish, when in contact with another polyester-finished part, is incredibly noisy from the most minuscule motion. A thin layer of VJ lube along the contact areas will permanently quiet things down. The most common, of course, is the noisy creaking from bench legs in contact with the sides of the bench. You remove one leg at a time, put a thin layer of VJ lube on the contact area (where you can see a very suggesting extremely fine white powder) then put the legs back on. You don't need to do it more than once. Another place to look is where the kick board touches other case parts. Pedaling is enough to shift the kick board slightly.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 22:09
From: Paul Brown
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Hi Terry,

It's always something very simple. I really like how you started off eliminating things before acting. Many times, I've done many procedures that were not required when I eventually found out what the problem was.

Let me change your sequence:

You removed the vertical rod and noticed that the sustain pedal still squeaked.
If I put (downward?) pressure on the spring the creak stops...  (you still haven't acted yet but noticed a possible solution).

At this point Martin suggests:

try whacking in a door stop wedge between floor and bottom board (that is pressure upward)

Paul.

------------------------------
Paul Brown, RPT
President
Piano Technicians Guild
Vancouver, BC Canada
Email: pres@ptg.org

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

There’s also a possible nasty squeak that comes from the connecting rod (pedal prop?) between the pedal and the steel tube. There’s a plastic bushing that often gets worn out on the under side of the pedal, and it squeaks there. Yamaha carries those parts. Or you could try a small leather punching in a pinch.

Joe Wiencek NYC


Original Message------

Hi Terry,

It's always something very simple. I really like how you started off eliminating things before acting. Many times, I've done many procedures that were not required when I eventually found out what the problem was.

Let me change your sequence:

You removed the vertical rod and noticed that the sustain pedal still squeaked.
If I put (downward?) pressure on the spring the creak stops...  (you still haven't acted yet but noticed a possible solution).

At this point Martin suggests:

try whacking in a door stop wedge between floor and bottom board (that is pressure upward)

Paul.

------------------------------
Paul Brown, RPT
President
Piano Technicians Guild
Vancouver, BC Canada
Email: pres@ptg.org
------------------------------

​Well, it seems a little extreme, but if you rebuilt it with wooden trapwork and a wooden dowel in place of the metal rod with the (damned) Teflon around the upper pin, it would last for decades, like piano pedals used to do, and probably without little or no noise.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Terry,
Check the screws in the bottom board and make sure the board itself isn’t squeaking with downward pressure on the pedals.

Jeannie Grassi, Registered Piano Technician
Island Piano Service
Bainbridge Island, WA
206-842-3721


Original Message------

​Well, it seems a little extreme, but if you rebuilt it with wooden trapwork and a wooden dowel in place of the metal rod with the (damned) Teflon around the upper pin, it would last for decades, like piano pedals used to do, and probably without little or no noise.

------------------------------
Susan Kline
Philomath, Oregon
------------------------------

I have found "creaking" at the contact point of the damper lift rod and
damper lever felt.


Original Message------

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

I didn't see anything regarding the damper hangers..I believe that's what they're called..a frequent source here for the occasional groan and creak..


------------------------------
-Phil Bondi
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 10:24
From: Robert Callaghan
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have found "creaking" at the contact point of the damper lift rod and
damper lever felt.


Original Message------

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Terry,

I was thinking tilting in order to tighten the screws. Looks like others have proposed other, more efficient methods and diagnostics than mine. I have occasionally put a book under there (temporarily of course!) when it was determined that that was the problem. 

Will be interested to learn what you did to solve it.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 11:35
From: Phil Bondi
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I didn't see anything regarding the damper hangers..I believe that's what they're called..a frequent source here for the occasional groan and creak..


------------------------------
-Phil Bondi

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 10:24
From: Robert Callaghan
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have found "creaking" at the contact point of the damper lift rod and
damper lever felt.


Original Message------

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Peter wrote in response to my question about what to do after tilting the piano: "I was thinking tilting in order to tighten the screws."

Oops! Duh!!! I feel silly now. Perfectly appropriate suggestion Peter. I see that now that I have my thinking cap back on securely.....  ;-)

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 14:58
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Terry,

I was thinking tilting in order to tighten the screws. Looks like others have proposed other, more efficient methods and diagnostics than mine. I have occasionally put a book under there (temporarily of course!) when it was determined that that was the problem.

Will be interested to learn what you did to solve it.

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 11:35
From: Phil Bondi
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I didn't see anything regarding the damper hangers..I believe that's what they're called..a frequent source here for the occasional groan and creak..


------------------------------
-Phil Bondi

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 10:24
From: Robert Callaghan
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have found "creaking" at the contact point of the damper lift rod and
damper lever felt.


Original Message------

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Try checking to see if there is a plastic bushing or sleeve on the pedal bracket where the pedal pins fit . I had a problem that was as elusive as this on a different make piano. I do not like the use of tubing and plastic anything in pedal trapworks. due to the stresses and sideforces it seems like a matter of time before there is a failure due to material fatigue. the metal tubing also has an amplification effect and also throws off troubleshooting . back in the day it seems like a company named norris had a good thing going with their norris noiseless pedal mount.
post some pictures because it sounds like the scenario applies to a number of pianos. sometimes felt on the coil/spring works. it may be a good idea to call Yamaha  to order parts like pivot pin bushings and tubing caps

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

I would probably spray it (liberally) with lubricant and see if that temporarily quiets it. If so, you know for sure where the problem lies.

It's enough to drive a sane person crazy ain't it?

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 17:46
From: James Kelly
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Try checking to see if there is a plastic bushing or sleeve on the pedal bracket where the pedal pins fit . I had a problem that was as elusive as this on a different make piano. I do not like the use of tubing and plastic anything in pedal trapworks. due to the stresses and sideforces it seems like a matter of time before there is a failure due to material fatigue. the metal tubing also has an amplification effect and also throws off troubleshooting . back in the day it seems like a company named norris had a good thing going with their norris noiseless pedal mount.
post some pictures because it sounds like the scenario applies to a number of pianos. sometimes felt on the coil/spring works. it may be a good idea to call Yamaha  to order parts like pivot pin bushings and tubing caps

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Terry,

You've already removed the damper pedal (vertical) rod.

Remove the wing nut on the pedal prop (threaded) bolt so that the damper pedal lever (horizontal steel tube) can be completely disconnected from the pedal.

Put your hands on both sides of the pedal lever bracket (near the ends) and rock the damper pedal lever (with spring still in place) like a teeter-totter.

Is there any creak coming from the damper pedal lever?

Paul.

------------------------------
Paul Brown, RPT
President
Piano Technicians Guild
Vancouver, BC Canada
Email: pres@ptg.org
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 20:22
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I would probably spray it (liberally) with lubricant and see if that temporarily quiets it. If so, you know for sure where the problem lies.

It's enough to drive a sane person crazy ain't it?

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 17:46
From: James Kelly
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Try checking to see if there is a plastic bushing or sleeve on the pedal bracket where the pedal pins fit . I had a problem that was as elusive as this on a different make piano. I do not like the use of tubing and plastic anything in pedal trapworks. due to the stresses and sideforces it seems like a matter of time before there is a failure due to material fatigue. the metal tubing also has an amplification effect and also throws off troubleshooting . back in the day it seems like a company named norris had a good thing going with their norris noiseless pedal mount.
post some pictures because it sounds like the scenario applies to a number of pianos. sometimes felt on the coil/spring works. it may be a good idea to call Yamaha  to order parts like pivot pin bushings and tubing caps

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Paul wrote: "You've already removed the damper pedal (vertical) rod. Remove the wing nut on the pedal prop (threaded) bolt so that the damper pedal lever (horizontal steel tube) can be completely disconnected from the pedal. Put your hands on both sides of the pedal lever bracket (near the ends) and rock the damper pedal lever (with spring still in place) like a teeter-totter. Is there any creak coming from the damper pedal lever?"

Yes, I have tried that - I've tried isolating all the parts I can. However, it seems this creak is somewhat specific to the owner's magic creak-inducing foot. Seems like if you change anything the creak stops. That would be great if the sustain system would work while it is disassembled! I can even reassemble the system and go up and down with the sustain pedal all I want and it won't creak. But when she sits down and works the pedal for a few minutes, the creak will start back up. Once it starts, then I can work the pedal with my hand and it will creak for me. Bottom line is that even isolating parts of the system is tough, because just about anything I do to the sustain system will stop the creak - only when it is fully assembled will it creak - with the exception that after it starts creaking I CAN remove the vertical rod between the bottom-board system and the action system and still have it creak.

I'm quite sure the creak is (apparently) coming from the sustain trapwork spring assembly. I think I will order a new spring and plastic cap. I'll replace those and see if that solves the problem. If it still creaks, I'll put a piece of leather between the plastic cap and the metal tube and see if that does it. If that doesn't work, then I'll sit down and have a nice cry.

I'm quite sure the creak is not coming from the pedal brackets - these are one piece for each side - no bushing. But they sure have a lot of flex in them - really poor design IMHO. I might replace them with two hunks of hard maple - like real pianos had back in the day.

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 21:52
From: Paul Brown
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Terry,

You've already removed the damper pedal (vertical) rod.

Remove the wing nut on the pedal prop (threaded) bolt so that the damper pedal lever (horizontal steel tube) can be completely disconnected from the pedal.

Put your hands on both sides of the pedal lever bracket (near the ends) and rock the damper pedal lever (with spring still in place) like a teeter-totter.

Is there any creak coming from the damper pedal lever?

Paul.

------------------------------
Paul Brown, RPT
President
Piano Technicians Guild
Vancouver, BC Canada
Email: pres@ptg.org

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 20:22
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I would probably spray it (liberally) with lubricant and see if that temporarily quiets it. If so, you know for sure where the problem lies.

It's enough to drive a sane person crazy ain't it?

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 17:46
From: James Kelly
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Try checking to see if there is a plastic bushing or sleeve on the pedal bracket where the pedal pins fit . I had a problem that was as elusive as this on a different make piano. I do not like the use of tubing and plastic anything in pedal trapworks. due to the stresses and sideforces it seems like a matter of time before there is a failure due to material fatigue. the metal tubing also has an amplification effect and also throws off troubleshooting . back in the day it seems like a company named norris had a good thing going with their norris noiseless pedal mount.
post some pictures because it sounds like the scenario applies to a number of pianos. sometimes felt on the coil/spring works. it may be a good idea to call Yamaha  to order parts like pivot pin bushings and tubing caps

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Original Message------

Paul wrote: "You've already removed the damper pedal (vertical) rod. Remove the wing nut on the pedal prop (threaded) bolt so that the damper pedal lever (horizontal steel tube) can be completely disconnected from the pedal. Put your hands on both sides of the pedal lever bracket (near the ends) and rock the damper pedal lever (with spring still in place) like a teeter-totter. Is there any creak coming from the damper pedal lever?"

Yes, I have tried that - I've tried isolating all the parts I can. However, it seems this creak is somewhat specific to the owner's magic creak-inducing foot. Seems like if you change anything the creak stops. That would be great if the sustain system would work while it is disassembled! I can even reassemble the system and go up and down with the sustain pedal all I want and it won't creak. But when she sits down and works the pedal for a few minutes, the creak will start back up. Once it starts, then I can work the pedal with my hand and it will creak for me. Bottom line is that even isolating parts of the system is tough, because just about anything I do to the sustain system will stop the creak - only when it is fully assembled will it creak - with the exception that after it starts creaking I CAN remove the vertical rod between the bottom-board system and the action system and still have it creak.

I'm quite sure the creak is (apparently) coming from the sustain trapwork spring assembly. I think I will order a new spring and plastic cap. I'll replace those and see if that solves the problem. If it still creaks, I'll put a piece of leather between the plastic cap and the metal tube and see if that does it. If that doesn't work, then I'll sit down and have a nice cry.

I'm quite sure the creak is not coming from the pedal brackets - these are one piece for each side - no bushing. But they sure have a lot of flex in them - really poor design IMHO. I might replace them with two hunks of hard maple - like real pianos had back in the day.

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Yes, I have tried that - I've tried isolating all the parts I can. However, it seems this creak is somewhat specific to the owner's magic creak-inducing foot. Seems like if you change anything the creak stops. That would be great if the sustain system would work while it is disassembled!

That's the point. It only creaks when assembled - when there is a connection.

30 years ago, an elderly technician told all of us at a meeting that upright pianos were coming in with an apparently unsolvable problem. The pedals squeaked with no possible solution.

He took a green front rail cloth punching and placed it under the pedal on the threaded bolt as a cushion. (I believe you already placed some leather in the slot where the bolt goes through the pedal).


Paul.

------------------------------
Paul Brown, RPT
President
Piano Technicians Guild
Vancouver, BC Canada
Email: pres@ptg.org
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-21-2018 06:28
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Paul wrote: "You've already removed the damper pedal (vertical) rod. Remove the wing nut on the pedal prop (threaded) bolt so that the damper pedal lever (horizontal steel tube) can be completely disconnected from the pedal. Put your hands on both sides of the pedal lever bracket (near the ends) and rock the damper pedal lever (with spring still in place) like a teeter-totter. Is there any creak coming from the damper pedal lever?"

Yes, I have tried that - I've tried isolating all the parts I can. However, it seems this creak is somewhat specific to the owner's magic creak-inducing foot. Seems like if you change anything the creak stops. That would be great if the sustain system would work while it is disassembled! I can even reassemble the system and go up and down with the sustain pedal all I want and it won't creak. But when she sits down and works the pedal for a few minutes, the creak will start back up. Once it starts, then I can work the pedal with my hand and it will creak for me. Bottom line is that even isolating parts of the system is tough, because just about anything I do to the sustain system will stop the creak - only when it is fully assembled will it creak - with the exception that after it starts creaking I CAN remove the vertical rod between the bottom-board system and the action system and still have it creak.

I'm quite sure the creak is (apparently) coming from the sustain trapwork spring assembly. I think I will order a new spring and plastic cap. I'll replace those and see if that solves the problem. If it still creaks, I'll put a piece of leather between the plastic cap and the metal tube and see if that does it. If that doesn't work, then I'll sit down and have a nice cry.

I'm quite sure the creak is not coming from the pedal brackets - these are one piece for each side - no bushing. But they sure have a lot of flex in them - really poor design IMHO. I might replace them with two hunks of hard maple - like real pianos had back in the day.

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 21:52
From: Paul Brown
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Terry,

You've already removed the damper pedal (vertical) rod.

Remove the wing nut on the pedal prop (threaded) bolt so that the damper pedal lever (horizontal steel tube) can be completely disconnected from the pedal.

Put your hands on both sides of the pedal lever bracket (near the ends) and rock the damper pedal lever (with spring still in place) like a teeter-totter.

Is there any creak coming from the damper pedal lever?

Paul.

------------------------------
Paul Brown, RPT
President
Piano Technicians Guild
Vancouver, BC Canada
Email: pres@ptg.org

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 20:22
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I would probably spray it (liberally) with lubricant and see if that temporarily quiets it. If so, you know for sure where the problem lies.

It's enough to drive a sane person crazy ain't it?

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 17:46
From: James Kelly
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Try checking to see if there is a plastic bushing or sleeve on the pedal bracket where the pedal pins fit . I had a problem that was as elusive as this on a different make piano. I do not like the use of tubing and plastic anything in pedal trapworks. due to the stresses and sideforces it seems like a matter of time before there is a failure due to material fatigue. the metal tubing also has an amplification effect and also throws off troubleshooting . back in the day it seems like a company named norris had a good thing going with their norris noiseless pedal mount.
post some pictures because it sounds like the scenario applies to a number of pianos. sometimes felt on the coil/spring works. it may be a good idea to call Yamaha  to order parts like pivot pin bushings and tubing caps

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------

Weave strips of felt or leather up and down between the coils of the spring.
Make it look like a little concertina (sort of).
This may not fix the cause, but it can dampen the resonance in the spring.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-21-2018 06:28
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Paul wrote: "You've already removed the damper pedal (vertical) rod. Remove the wing nut on the pedal prop (threaded) bolt so that the damper pedal lever (horizontal steel tube) can be completely disconnected from the pedal. Put your hands on both sides of the pedal lever bracket (near the ends) and rock the damper pedal lever (with spring still in place) like a teeter-totter. Is there any creak coming from the damper pedal lever?"

Yes, I have tried that - I've tried isolating all the parts I can. However, it seems this creak is somewhat specific to the owner's magic creak-inducing foot. Seems like if you change anything the creak stops. That would be great if the sustain system would work while it is disassembled! I can even reassemble the system and go up and down with the sustain pedal all I want and it won't creak. But when she sits down and works the pedal for a few minutes, the creak will start back up. Once it starts, then I can work the pedal with my hand and it will creak for me. Bottom line is that even isolating parts of the system is tough, because just about anything I do to the sustain system will stop the creak - only when it is fully assembled will it creak - with the exception that after it starts creaking I CAN remove the vertical rod between the bottom-board system and the action system and still have it creak.

I'm quite sure the creak is (apparently) coming from the sustain trapwork spring assembly. I think I will order a new spring and plastic cap. I'll replace those and see if that solves the problem. If it still creaks, I'll put a piece of leather between the plastic cap and the metal tube and see if that does it. If that doesn't work, then I'll sit down and have a nice cry.

I'm quite sure the creak is not coming from the pedal brackets - these are one piece for each side - no bushing. But they sure have a lot of flex in them - really poor design IMHO. I might replace them with two hunks of hard maple - like real pianos had back in the day.

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 21:52
From: Paul Brown
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Terry,

You've already removed the damper pedal (vertical) rod.

Remove the wing nut on the pedal prop (threaded) bolt so that the damper pedal lever (horizontal steel tube) can be completely disconnected from the pedal.

Put your hands on both sides of the pedal lever bracket (near the ends) and rock the damper pedal lever (with spring still in place) like a teeter-totter.

Is there any creak coming from the damper pedal lever?

Paul.

------------------------------
Paul Brown, RPT
President
Piano Technicians Guild
Vancouver, BC Canada
Email: pres@ptg.org

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 20:22
From: Peter Grey
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I would probably spray it (liberally) with lubricant and see if that temporarily quiets it. If so, you know for sure where the problem lies.

It's enough to drive a sane person crazy ain't it?

Pwg

------------------------------
Peter Grey
Stratham NH
603-686-2395
pianodoctor57@gmail.com

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 17:46
From: James Kelly
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

Try checking to see if there is a plastic bushing or sleeve on the pedal bracket where the pedal pins fit . I had a problem that was as elusive as this on a different make piano. I do not like the use of tubing and plastic anything in pedal trapworks. due to the stresses and sideforces it seems like a matter of time before there is a failure due to material fatigue. the metal tubing also has an amplification effect and also throws off troubleshooting . back in the day it seems like a company named norris had a good thing going with their norris noiseless pedal mount.
post some pictures because it sounds like the scenario applies to a number of pianos. sometimes felt on the coil/spring works. it may be a good idea to call Yamaha  to order parts like pivot pin bushings and tubing caps

------------------------------
James Kelly
Pawleys Island SC
843-325-4357

Original Message:
Sent: 07-19-2018 16:14
From: Terrence Farrell
Subject: Creaky Sustain Pedal

I have a client with a Yamaha M404 console that has a creaky sustain pedal. I isolated the noise to somewhere between the pedal and the horizontal steel tube that runs between the pedal and the rod that goes up to the action. I removed the vertical rod and it still creaks - so it's something about that tube, the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself.

However, I lubricated the tube pivot with Protek grease, I place thin leather over the top and bottom of the spring, I put a leather punching on the threaded rod where it goes through the pedal and I lubricated the pedal pivot brackets. Darn thing still creaks. If I put pressure on the spring the creak stops - when I let go, it creaks again. I swapped out the springs between the sustain and the soft pedal - still creaks.

I can't think of anything else to do with what is there. IMHO, the next step is to simply order a set of replacement parts: the tube pivot, the spring, the treaded rod between the pedal and the tube, the pedal pivot and the pedal itself and replace all of them.

Any better ideas?

------------------------------
Terry Farrell
Farrell Piano Service, Inc.
Brandon, Florida
terry@farrellpiano.com
813-684-3505
------------------------------