Pianotech

Expand all | Collapse all

Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

  • 1.  Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-07-2018 21:00
    I'm curious how other folks use pneumatic palm nailers for driving tuning pins.

    Specifically...I have a Bostich palm nailer. The "nose" is too deep, so that pin inserts into the nose past the becket hole. Because of this excessive nose depth, I made a soft steel slug that inserts into the nose. The nose is drilled and shaped so the pin inserts into the slug's hole during driving. This good and bad...

    good...the soft steel interface slamming on the pin, usually does not ding blued pins.
    bad...the slug gets out of control every once and a while and nails the plate finish...really pisses me off when this happens...usually once or twice per block.

    I would grind down the nose, so I could eliminate the soft iron slug, but the hardened palm nailer ram deforms the pin tops much more than the soft steel. How have others out there set up their palm nailers?


    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-08-2018 01:19
    Jim,
    Given the complaints, I'm curious what the upside is?  There must be something or you wouldn't be messing with it.  Is it that much faster?  Quieter?  Easier on the pin block? With a small sledge and a punch it is easy to control the depth of the pin with a low-tech pop-sickle stick taped to the side of the punch.  How do you handle this with the palm nailer?  Driving pins by hand also gives you some feedback, and you can keep some tension on the wire with the punch when inserting into the hole, all of which I find advantageous.

    ------------------------------
    Cecil Snyder
    Torrance CA
    310-542-7108
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-08-2018 07:05
    Cecil,

    The palm nailer does everything your enumerate, and more. It is faster and easier for the stringer, and better for the pin block (or so I am told). At a cost of about one hundred dollars, my palm nailer is one of the best values of all the tools I own.

    Alan

    ------------------------------
    Alan Eder, RPT
    Herb Alpert School of Music
    California Institute of the Arts
    Valencia, CA
    661.904.6483
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-08-2018 07:45
    Mine is a Rigid and it doesn't have this problem. My only modification was a piece of felt lining the side walls to keep from scratching the side of the pin. I don't use a depth stop. I set my pins to height with a hammer and punch after the first chip tuning.

    ------------------------------
    Philip Stewart
    609-774-7571
    www.njpianoservice.com
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-08-2018 08:09
    Jim,
    My Bostich nailer came with 3 different "noses" for a range of nail sizes.  The one for finishing nails is longer than the others, and contains a "slug" which is captive.  I had to enlarge the bore of the nose to accommodate tuning pins, which insert about 5/16" into the nose.  It does hammer a flat on the top of the pin, but it's not that obvious.  It's been working for me for almost 20 years.  See photos.

    ------------------------------
    Michael Spalding RPT
    Fredonia WI
    262-692-3943
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-08-2018 08:47
    The real solution is to grind (or have ground) the surface of the piston so as to conform relatively closely to the curved top of the tuning pin.

    This inherent problem (an extremely hard piston requiring disassembly and special work) is why I went back to the traditional tools. I didnt feel that I was really saving any actual time in the process, and I have my doubts about the "betterness" of the "insta-installation" of the tuning pin. Also, it's noisy enough doing it traditionally. Who wants to hear a nail gun in a piano shop! Yikes!

    Just an opinion. That's all.

    Pwg


    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-08-2018 09:46
    I like it because it is much easier on my arthritic hands.

     Take a front rail punching, cut halfway through it.
     Insert the pin a short distance into the block. Take the cut punching and put it around the pin.  Finish driving in the pin and the felt  punching will protect the plate.

    ------------------------------
    Sam Lewis
    Sam Lewis Piano
    White Bluff TN
    615-417-7007
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-08-2018 21:45
    I don't know about Bosch (or any other) palm nailers. I've been using my "Aerosmith" (now Danair) nailer for close to 50 years. I've sent it back to the factory twice to be rebuilt. It's still running. 

    When I bought it they had a "piano" tip set available. This was the setup used by Baldwin, Aeolian, Kimball, and whoever else was building pianos in the 1970s. 

    ddf

    --
    Delwin D Fandrich
    Fandrich Piano Company, Inc.
    Piano Design and Manufacturing Consulting Services -- Worldwide
    6939 Foothill Ct SW -- Olympia, WA 98512 -- USA
    Phone 360.515.0119 -- Mobile 360.388.6525





  • 9.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-08-2018 22:09
    Being blessed with a super strong grip ( BTW, It's amazing what a handshake in a split second tells you about a person) i have always been comfortable with a sledge hammer (hardly know it's there). I have a pneumatic nailer too, and occasionally attempt to use it, but it just seems too cumbersome to me. So it just sit in my bottom drawer most of the time.
    -chris
    #caveman

    ------------------------------
    A hunter's drumbeat steers the stampeding herd,
    His belly growls in hunger to what he sees.
    The mammoth aware blows his mighty trumpet,
    But alas, the caveman tickles the ivories.

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-08-2018 22:20
    Del...going to call Danair tomorrow...but am not hopeful on the continued existence of the "piano tip". Any chance on a pic of the piano tip?

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-08-2018 22:47
    Hi,

    I suspect others will be interested in what you learn from Danair.

    If I remember correctly, RonN wrote something several years back about
    using a palm nailer from Harbor Freight. While the one that they
    currently have listed from Central Pneumatic seems to be getting mostly
    positive reviews, I've had fairly mixed results on various products from
    Harbor Freight, so generally plan on replacing whatever I buy there
    fairly soon.

    A brief talk with Dr. Google shows what look to be competent units from
    both Senco (PC1195) and Hitachi (NH90AB) for $49.00 each. I have power
    tools from both Senco and Hitachi (purchased mostly through W.W.
    Grainger), and have been very pleased with them for some years now.

    In terms of the piano tip, I find myself wondering if, should enough
    technicians would be interested (and, of course, the tip would be
    sufficiently universal), Danair would be willing to make a custom run of
    them. Or, even, perhaps, a run of their RN-16 palm nailer. It can't
    hurt to ask.

    On the other hand, sometimes it's a good deal of fun to simply whack
    about with a 6# sledge on a short hammer, too. My Bride tells me that
    I'm much more pleasant to be around after such a session....

    Kind regards.

    Horace

    On 2/8/2018 7:19 PM, Jim Ialeggio via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
    > Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
    >
    > Del...going to call Danair tomorrow...but am not hopeful on the continued existence of the "piano tip". Any chance on a pic of the piano tip?
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > Jim Ialeggio
    > grandpianosolutions.com
    > Shirley, MA
    > 978 425-9026
    > ------------------------------
    > -------------------------------------------
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 02-08-2018 21:44
    > From: Delwin Fandrich
    > Subject: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers
    >
    > I don't know about Bosch (or any other) palm nailers. I've been using my "Aerosmith" (now Danair) nailer for close to 50 years. I've sent it back to the factory twice to be rebuilt. It's still running.
    > When I bought it they had a "piano" tip set available. This was the setup used by Baldwin, Aeolian, Kimball, and whoever else was building pianos in the 1970s.
    > ddf
    > --
    > Delwin D FandrichFandrich Piano Company, Inc.Piano Design and Manufacturing Consulting Services -- Worldwide6939 Foothill Ct SW -- Olympia, WA 98512 -- USAPhone 360.515.0119 -- Mobile 360.388.6525
    >
    >
    > Original Message------
    >
    > I'm curious how other folks use pneumatic palm nailers for driving tuning pins.
    >
    > Specifically...I have a Bostich palm nailer. The "nose" is too deep, so that pin inserts into the nose past the becket hole. Because of this excessive nose depth, I made a soft steel slug that inserts into the nose. The nose is drilled and shaped so the pin inserts into the slug's hole during driving. This good and bad...
    >
    > good...the soft steel interface slamming on the pin, usually does not ding blued pins.
    > bad...the slug gets out of control every once and a while and nails the plate finish...really pisses me off when this happens...usually once or twice per block.
    >
    > I would grind down the nose, so I could eliminate the soft iron slug, but the hardened palm nailer ram deforms the pin tops much more than the soft steel. How have others out there set up their palm nailers?
    >
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > Jim Ialeggio
    > grandpianosolutions.com
    > Shirley, MA
    > 978 425-9026
    > ------------------------------
    >
    >
    > Reply to Sender : http://my.ptg.org/eGroups/PostReply/?GroupId=43&SenderKey=6d3d3e11-cd2d-4c0e-8c2f-d2dbfc424f78&MID=685682&MDATE=756%253d45745%253d&UserKey=3feecf45-4a69-4cff-bbb2-fd6c7eaf0569&sKey=KeyRemoved
    >
    > Reply to Discussion : http://my.ptg.org/eGroups/PostReply/?GroupId=43&MID=685682&MDATE=756%253d45745%253d&UserKey=3feecf45-4a69-4cff-bbb2-fd6c7eaf0569&sKey=KeyRemoved
    >
    >
    >
    > You are subscribed to "Pianotech" as hgreeley@sonic.net. To change your subscriptions, go to http://my.ptg.org/preferences?section=Subscriptions&MDATE=756%253d45745%253d&UserKey=3feecf45-4a69-4cff-bbb2-fd6c7eaf0569&sKey=KeyRemoved. To unsubscribe from this community discussion, go to http://my.ptg.org/HigherLogic/eGroups/Unsubscribe.aspx?UserKey=3feecf45-4a69-4cff-bbb2-fd6c7eaf0569&sKey=KeyRemoved&GroupKey=2bb4ebe8-4dba-4640-ae67-111903beaddf.
    >




  • 12.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-26-2018 11:43
    Followed up Del's suggestion on the Danair palm nailer with the piano tip...Alas, it is no more. Danair stopped making the palm nailer as they simply could not compete with the Asian offerings. They can repair existing units for a while as the existing parts stock depletes, but after that...gonzo.

    Schaff was carrying the nailer and piano tip, but since Danair is no longer making them, they do not have either the nailer or tip available either, though they were able to describe how it was set up to do its task.

    So, since that option is gone, for me, I found that I really like aspects of my tooled relatively soft steel slug, as it does not deform the pins. I found I could limit wayward plate strikes,which is the part I don't like, by keeping a piece of dense action felt in the "damage zone".



    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-26-2018 15:31
    Jim,

    Can you dis-assemble the thing?

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 14.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-26-2018 15:57
    don't own one.  They can be disassembled, but one needs one to dissassmble said one

    ------------------------------
    Jim Ialeggio
    grandpianosolutions.com
    Shirley, MA
    978 425-9026
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: Inserting Tuning pins with Pneumatic Palm Nailers

    Posted 02-26-2018 17:45
    I meant the one you do own.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------