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Music School Piano Tech Survey?

  • 1.  Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-07-2017 23:30
    My music department director emailed me today saying he was at a conference and schools from 50 states are gathering info on piano college/university piano techs workloads. The survey asked how many full and part time techs we have, salary, average percent time spent on various types of work, and student workers/apprentices, etc. I returned the form filled out, but suggested that our school is far from an ideal tech to pianos ratio, at 1/220! Anyone else see anything like this coming through recently? The survey came from a dean at LSU.

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    John Minor
    University of Illinois
    jminor@illinois.edu
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  • 2.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2017 09:45
    How does this fit in with federal antitrust laws. Are schools exempt from sharing this information?

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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
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    Original Message


  • 3.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2017 13:26
    Larry

    I don't think sharing information on how many techs it takes to take care of pianos is the same as how much money each is making. Now, if all the state schools got together and all agreed to pay piano tuners a certain amount of money, that might be raise some eyebrows.

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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    Original Message


  • 4.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2017 13:52
    Wim, survey includes salary. We’re not allowed to discuss prices even if we don’t agree on what to charge. How is that different?

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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
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    Original Message


  • 5.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2017 15:53
    Larry

    I didn't know it included salaries.  But it wouldn't matter. This who issue of anti trust we have not to discuss how much we charge, etc, is not what the anti trust policy is all about. Anti Trust is to prevent price fixing. It would only come into play when we, as an organization, or a chapter, all agree, by vote, recorded in the minutes, to charge a set fee for our work. Unions get away with it, but as independent contractors, we can't do that. This is what got the Twin Cities chapter in trouble many years ago. They voted to charge a certain fee. That's against the law. But I don't believe just asking each other, much less discussing prices, could be construed as price fixing, unless the feds could prove that we all agreed to charge the same thing for the same procedure. That's my take on it.

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    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
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    Original Message


  • 6.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2017 17:54
    From our anti-trust policy. Looks like the schools could be in collusion!
    Price-Fixing. Historically, association members have been most likely to violate, and the government has been most likely to strictly enforce, the pricefixing prohibitions of the Sherman Act. A price-fixing violation may be inferred from similar price behavior by members, even in the absence of a written or oral agreement. If price-fixing is established, PTG and its members may not defend the claim on the basis that the prices set are reasonable or that the ends sought through the price-fixing behavior are beneficial to consumers.

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    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------

    Original Message


  • 7.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-09-2017 14:34
    From my recent experience trying to get my position reclassified in order to receive more compensation, I was told that salary information outside of my state was irrelevant and would not be considered in any way.  

    Also, in looking at the overall subject of workload, the specific number of instruments is just one piece of the workload.  Total number of concerts, number of concert instruments, average age of the inventory, quality of HVAC, and overall quality and demands of the music program are all significant factors.  

    Comparing "workload" from one institution to another and especially comparing compensation is quite difficult in my opinion.  The phrase "going down a rabbit hole" comes to mind.

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    John Foy, RPT
    Piano Technician, UNC-CH
    Chapel Hill, NC
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    Original Message


  • 8.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-09-2017 16:34
    FWIW, the association is called NAMESU (don't know what the acronym stands for: at a guess, National Association of Music E? in State Universities. A might be administrators, E education, but then I can't make sense of N). They have an active list serve, or did in the 10 - 15 year ago span. My chair referred a couple questions from his colleagues to me, queried them about methods for doing a "sole source purchase" (must be Steinway). I found those in my enormous email archives (some day I hope I might pare it down, but it's tough enough to keep up with the daily onslaught).

    So this may be something that one head of one music program initiated, asking colleagues to please respond, rather than a concerted, organized effort. They are pretty much like us, asking their colleagues for information they can use in their own situations.
    Regards,
    Fred Sturm
    "We either make ourselves happy or miserable. The amount of work is the same." - Carlos Casteneda




    Original Message


  • 9.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-09-2017 16:43
     N stands for "Nowledge."  K?

    Richard West



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  • 10.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-09-2017 16:44
    Oh, the group I know about, NASM, is National Association of Schools of Music. May be something else entirely.

    Kathy


    Original Message


  • 11.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-10-2017 14:55
    MENC is Music Educators National Conference

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    Clarence Zeches
    Piano Service Enterprise School of Technology
    Toccoa GA
    706-886-4035
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    Original Message


  • 12.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2017 09:53
    Didn't the CAUT guidelines perform such a survey as they constructed the guidelines? I seem to remember filling out such a survey some years ago.

    As far as anti-trust - I work for a state school (contract). I assume they have to be transparent; accounting and policy are all public information.

    Nancy Salmon
    Frostburg State University
    Frostburg, MD 21532



    Original Message


  • 13.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2017 20:29
    Nancy,

    Have a look at the recent "What is your workload" discussion on the CAUT community. Lots of discussion regarding surveys in the past.

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    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]
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    Original Message


  • 14.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2017 20:48
    Concerning antitrust, I doubt very much it would apply to state government supported entities like state universities.
    Fred Sturm
    fssturm@comcast.net
    www.artoftuning.com
    http://fredsturm.net
    "Tradition is not the worship of ashes, but the preservation of fire." -Gustav Mahler


    Original Message


  • 15.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2017 10:22
    John, just curious, what organization has taken on this survey?

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    [Don] [McKechnie,] [RPT]
    [Piano Technician]
    [dmckech@ithaca.edu]
    [Home 607.277.7112]
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    Original Message


  • 16.  RE: Music School Piano Tech Survey?

    Registered Piano Technician
    Posted 10-08-2017 15:35
    I believe this would be the music department chairs of the flagship state universities of all 50 states. About 10 years ago, my chair hosted that group in Santa Fe, which was the first I had ever heard about it. They essentially meet and converse by email to share their experiences - ways of coping with certain problems, success stories, etc. I tried to get the opportunity to address the group on issues connected with piano maintenance (my chair submitted that for me), but they didn't have time.

    I wouldn't treat this with a paranoid attitude. We have been doing exactly the same thing year after year (including the recent thread about work load). I think we are all better off by knowing the reality of what is out there, and so are they, especially if they can get the majority of the 50 states to respond. I'd ask to see the results when they come (I will query my current chair and see what he knows about this - he hasn't mentioned anything, and we communicate frequently and well).

    Who knows, this could lead to something being including in NASM accreditation guidelines.




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