CAUT

------------------------------
Christopher Purdy, RPT
School of Music, Ohio University Athens, OH . 45701
purdy@ohio.edu
(740) 590-3842
------------------------------

Following. 
(I'm clueless - if anything short of like caulk & silicone remover would actually work. I would sort of hate to use something that strong, so hmmm..) 

Leapfrogging ahead (just in case it comes up--). I am a one man show as I'm guessing you are also. There were SO MANY bad key bushings upon my arrival at Univ in '09, I had no choice but to hire a bunch of these sets done. Keytops too on some of them. Anyway, it really would not be that expensive (if you even have a few hours hundred a year to deficate to this--) To just send sets of keys to like Debra Legg -or other great ones-- to have these done like during the summer, etc. -??

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 13:08
From: Christopher Purdy
Subject: key bushing glue

Hi everyone,

I have a question about gluing key bushings.  I have always used hot hide glue.  In a CAUT environment I have to re-bush frequently and hide glue is excellent for steaming out the old bushings.  Recently, however, I was in a bind and used PVC-E.  I know that a lot of folks use this exclusively for key bushing but I am worried about future re-re-bushing.  I have occasionally had a set of keys with what I presumed to be PVC-E and it was a booger to remove.  The bushings came out fine but the glue left behind was a hot mess.

The keyset I just re-bushed with PVC-E was great to work with.  No hot hide glue mess or bother.  It would really be nice to switch to PVC-E but…. What are your experiences with removing PVE-E?  

Thanks!

------------------------------
Christopher Purdy, RPT
School of Music, Ohio University Athens, OH . 45701
purdy@ohio.edu
(740) 590-3842
------------------------------

CORRECTION!:
"a few hundred dollars a year"

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 14:59
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: key bushing glue

Following.
(I'm clueless - if anything short of like caulk & silicone remover would actually work. I would sort of hate to use something that strong, so hmmm..)

Leapfrogging ahead (just in case it comes up--). I am a one man show as I'm guessing you are also. There were SO MANY bad key bushings upon my arrival at Univ in '09, I had no choice but to hire a bunch of these sets done. Keytops too on some of them. Anyway, it really would not be that expensive (if you even have a few hours hundred a year to deficate to this--) To just send sets of keys to like Debra Legg -or other great ones-- to have these done like during the summer, etc. -??

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 13:08
From: Christopher Purdy
Subject: key bushing glue

Hi everyone,

I have a question about gluing key bushings.  I have always used hot hide glue.  In a CAUT environment I have to re-bush frequently and hide glue is excellent for steaming out the old bushings.  Recently, however, I was in a bind and used PVC-E.  I know that a lot of folks use this exclusively for key bushing but I am worried about future re-re-bushing.  I have occasionally had a set of keys with what I presumed to be PVC-E and it was a booger to remove.  The bushings came out fine but the glue left behind was a hot mess.

The keyset I just re-bushed with PVC-E was great to work with.  No hot hide glue mess or bother.  It would really be nice to switch to PVC-E but…. What are your experiences with removing PVE-E?  

Thanks!

------------------------------
Christopher Purdy, RPT
School of Music, Ohio University Athens, OH . 45701
purdy@ohio.edu
(740) 590-3842
------------------------------

You'd have to work in a factory to bush more keys than I have. Hyde glue is better

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 15:01
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: key bushing glue

CORRECTION!:
"a few hundred dollars a year"

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 14:59
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: key bushing glue

Following.
(I'm clueless - if anything short of like caulk & silicone remover would actually work. I would sort of hate to use something that strong, so hmmm..)

Leapfrogging ahead (just in case it comes up--). I am a one man show as I'm guessing you are also. There were SO MANY bad key bushings upon my arrival at Univ in '09, I had no choice but to hire a bunch of these sets done. Keytops too on some of them. Anyway, it really would not be that expensive (if you even have a few hours hundred a year to deficate to this--) To just send sets of keys to like Debra Legg -or other great ones-- to have these done like during the summer, etc. -??

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 13:08
From: Christopher Purdy
Subject: key bushing glue

Hi everyone,

I have a question about gluing key bushings.  I have always used hot hide glue.  In a CAUT environment I have to re-bush frequently and hide glue is excellent for steaming out the old bushings.  Recently, however, I was in a bind and used PVC-E.  I know that a lot of folks use this exclusively for key bushing but I am worried about future re-re-bushing.  I have occasionally had a set of keys with what I presumed to be PVC-E and it was a booger to remove.  The bushings came out fine but the glue left behind was a hot mess.

The keyset I just re-bushed with PVC-E was great to work with.  No hot hide glue mess or bother.  It would really be nice to switch to PVC-E but…. What are your experiences with removing PVE-E?  

Thanks!

------------------------------
Christopher Purdy, RPT
School of Music, Ohio University Athens, OH . 45701
purdy@ohio.edu
(740) 590-3842
------------------------------

I just did my first set with fish glue. I have been using fish glue for probably 20 years now for hammer, and just about any wood to wood, leather and felt combination. (Excepting things like wippen heel felts that need to have the material stretched into position)

Fish glue has many of the advantages of hot hide glue but allows me to work faster because there is no heating involved.  The test bushings I did steamed out very nicely as well.

My source of fish glue:
High Tack Fish Glue - Lee Valley Tools

Leevalley		remove preview
High Tack Fish Glue - Lee Valley Tools High Tack Fish Glue from Lee Valley Tools. Lee Valley offers high-quality woodworking tools (woodturning, wood finishing, sharpening, woodcarving), gardening tools and hardware to woodworkers, cabinetmakers and gardeners View this on Leevalley >

------------------------------
Jurgen Goering
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 15:15
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: key bushing glue

You'd have to work in a factory to bush more keys than I have. Hyde glue is better

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 15:01
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: key bushing glue

CORRECTION!:
"a few hundred dollars a year"

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 14:59
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: key bushing glue

Following.
(I'm clueless - if anything short of like caulk & silicone remover would actually work. I would sort of hate to use something that strong, so hmmm..)

Leapfrogging ahead (just in case it comes up--). I am a one man show as I'm guessing you are also. There were SO MANY bad key bushings upon my arrival at Univ in '09, I had no choice but to hire a bunch of these sets done. Keytops too on some of them. Anyway, it really would not be that expensive (if you even have a few hours hundred a year to deficate to this--) To just send sets of keys to like Debra Legg -or other great ones-- to have these done like during the summer, etc. -??

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 13:08
From: Christopher Purdy
Subject: key bushing glue

Hi everyone,

I have a question about gluing key bushings.  I have always used hot hide glue.  In a CAUT environment I have to re-bush frequently and hide glue is excellent for steaming out the old bushings.  Recently, however, I was in a bind and used PVC-E.  I know that a lot of folks use this exclusively for key bushing but I am worried about future re-re-bushing.  I have occasionally had a set of keys with what I presumed to be PVC-E and it was a booger to remove.  The bushings came out fine but the glue left behind was a hot mess.

The keyset I just re-bushed with PVC-E was great to work with.  No hot hide glue mess or bother.  It would really be nice to switch to PVC-E but…. What are your experiences with removing PVE-E?  

Thanks!

------------------------------
Christopher Purdy, RPT
School of Music, Ohio University Athens, OH . 45701
purdy@ohio.edu
(740) 590-3842
------------------------------

​Interesting Jurgen. I Profelt after gluing in new bushings. Do you think the fish glue would stand up to that or would the bushings tend to slide out of place?

------------------------------
Ted Kidwell, RPT
California State University, Sacramento
Capistrano Hall, rm. 153
6000 J Street
Sacramento, CA 95819-6015
916.278.6737
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 16:53
From: Jurgen Goering
Subject: key bushing glue

I just did my first set with fish glue. I have been using fish glue for probably 20 years now for hammer, and just about any wood to wood, leather and felt combination. (Excepting things like wippen heel felts that need to have the material stretched into position)

Fish glue has many of the advantages of hot hide glue but allows me to work faster because there is no heating involved.  The test bushings I did steamed out very nicely as well.

My source of fish glue:
High Tack Fish Glue - Lee Valley Tools

Leevalley		remove preview
High Tack Fish Glue - Lee Valley Tools High Tack Fish Glue from Lee Valley Tools. Lee Valley offers high-quality woodworking tools (woodturning, wood finishing, sharpening, woodcarving), gardening tools and hardware to woodworkers, cabinetmakers and gardeners View this on Leevalley >

------------------------------
Jurgen Goering

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 15:15
From: Benjamin Sloane
Subject: key bushing glue

You'd have to work in a factory to bush more keys than I have. Hyde glue is better

------------------------------
Benjamin Sloane
Cincinnati OH
513-257-8480

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 15:01
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: key bushing glue

CORRECTION!:
"a few hundred dollars a year"

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 14:59
From: Kevin Fortenberry
Subject: key bushing glue

Following.
(I'm clueless - if anything short of like caulk & silicone remover would actually work. I would sort of hate to use something that strong, so hmmm..)

Leapfrogging ahead (just in case it comes up--). I am a one man show as I'm guessing you are also. There were SO MANY bad key bushings upon my arrival at Univ in '09, I had no choice but to hire a bunch of these sets done. Keytops too on some of them. Anyway, it really would not be that expensive (if you even have a few hours hundred a year to deficate to this--) To just send sets of keys to like Debra Legg -or other great ones-- to have these done like during the summer, etc. -??

------------------------------
[Kevin] [Fortenberry] [RPT]
[Staff Techician]
[Texas Tech Univ]
[Lubbock] [TX]
[8067783962]

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 13:08
From: Christopher Purdy
Subject: key bushing glue

Hi everyone,

I have a question about gluing key bushings.  I have always used hot hide glue.  In a CAUT environment I have to re-bush frequently and hide glue is excellent for steaming out the old bushings.  Recently, however, I was in a bind and used PVC-E.  I know that a lot of folks use this exclusively for key bushing but I am worried about future re-re-bushing.  I have occasionally had a set of keys with what I presumed to be PVC-E and it was a booger to remove.  The bushings came out fine but the glue left behind was a hot mess.

The keyset I just re-bushed with PVC-E was great to work with.  No hot hide glue mess or bother.  It would really be nice to switch to PVC-E but…. What are your experiences with removing PVE-E?  

Thanks!

------------------------------
Christopher Purdy, RPT
School of Music, Ohio University Athens, OH . 45701
purdy@ohio.edu
(740) 590-3842
------------------------------

Mr.Purdy,

I fear that you will be bitterly disappointed when you try to remove PVC-E glue. While it's great for gluing on keytops it is not easily reversible. I recently had the misfortune to rework a damper job gone awry done by a young associate in our area. He could swear that he heard Mario Igrec tell him PVC-E was the go to glue for gluing felt to wood.  I think the misunderstanding came about as a result of the associate not being a native speaker of English.  I'm pretty sure the glue he (and you in this case) were looking for was PVA  . Elmer's School glue and Elmer's Glue All are both PVA glue with school glue having a higher water content. The nice person at Elmer's told me that this was the only difference between the two when I called their 800 number.  It applies like hide glue and is water reversible like hide glue.  PVC-E is highly water and heat resistant and is very,very hard to remove.  I had to set up a Rube Goldberg like contraption with my veneer iron and spend about 6 hours with a razor knife and a scraper to get the glue and felt off of the damper heads without ruining the wood.  Damper heads are made of maple.  Keys are made of pine or spruce.  Getting PVC-E to release without destroying the mortise is going to be quite difficult.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-29-2017 13:08
From: Christopher Purdy
Subject: key bushing glue

Hi everyone,

I have a question about gluing key bushings.  I have always used hot hide glue.  In a CAUT environment I have to re-bush frequently and hide glue is excellent for steaming out the old bushings.  Recently, however, I was in a bind and used PVC-E.  I know that a lot of folks use this exclusively for key bushing but I am worried about future re-re-bushing.  I have occasionally had a set of keys with what I presumed to be PVC-E and it was a booger to remove.  The bushings came out fine but the glue left behind was a hot mess.

The keyset I just re-bushed with PVC-E was great to work with.  No hot hide glue mess or bother.  It would really be nice to switch to PVC-E but…. What are your experiences with removing PVE-E?  

Thanks!

------------------------------
Christopher Purdy, RPT
School of Music, Ohio University Athens, OH . 45701
purdy@ohio.edu
(740) 590-3842
------------------------------

Original Message------

Mr.Purdy,

I fear that you will be bitterly disappointed when you try to remove PVC-E glue. While it's great for gluing on keytops it is not easily reversible. I recently had the misfortune to rework a damper job gone awry done by a young associate in our area. He could swear that he heard Mario Igrec tell him PVC-E was the go to glue for gluing felt to wood.  I think the misunderstanding came about as a result of the associate not being a native speaker of English.  I'm pretty sure the glue he (and you in this case) were looking for was PVA  . Elmer's School glue and Elmer's Glue All are both PVA glue with school glue having a higher water content. The nice person at Elmer's told me that this was the only difference between the two when I called their 800 number.  It applies like hide glue and is water reversible like hide glue.  PVC-E is highly water and heat resistant and is very,very hard to remove.  I had to set up a Rube Goldberg like contraption with my veneer iron and spend about 6 hours with a razor knife and a scraper to get the glue and felt off of the damper heads without ruining the wood.  Damper heads are made of maple.  Keys are made of pine or spruce.  Getting PVC-E to release without destroying the mortise is going to be quite difficult.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message------

I agree with Karl.  PVC-E goes on nicely, but is awful to remove.  I've tried it in the past and have also found that on key bushings, it does not set up hard enough.  Hot hide & fish glue dries hard.  PVC-E is more rubbery, and you never get a solid key  mortice.

I do not recommend PVC-E glue for key bushings.  

Debbie Cyr Registered piano Technician 508-202-2862 cell/text debbiecyr@me.com www.nbss.edu

Original Message------

Thank you everyone for your comments.  They were pretty much what I expected.  I know of technicians that use PVC-E on key bushings and swear by it.  But I have also had the nightmare of removing gobs of the stuff from mortices.  I was not sure, though, that that was PVC-E or something else.  I will stick with hide glue.  (Sorry, awful pun). 

I have never used fish glue, I am going to check that out!  I may also experiment with PVC-A.  But I agree with Deb, I think the hard finish of hide glue is preferable to the softer give of the white glues for bushings.  

Thank you!

Chris

Christopher D. Purdy R.P.T.
Registered Piano Technician
School of Music, Ohio University
Rm. 311, Robt. Glidden Hall
Athens, OH  45701
Office (740) 593-4230
Cell    (740) 590-3842
fax      (740) 593-1429
http://www.ohiou.edu/music

Original Message------

Chris,

That's PVA, not PVC-A. Polyvinyl-acetate. PVC is Polyvinyl-Chloride.

I'm not so sure that PVA is a great choice for bushings. It may be a bit better than PVC-E, but it is still going to take longer to absorb moisture and get soft enough to release, and I suspect it will leave a residue. This is based on following what I am pretty sure is PVA on both key bushings and dampers. Not much different from "aliphatic resin" glues like Titebond in that respect: the latter is more moisture resistant due to the resins added to PVA in their formulation. 

I'd stick to hide or fish. I prefer hot hide because it sets faster and doesn't absorb into the felt as much (not that fish glue absorbs enough to be a problem. Both release and leave a nice clean surface ready for another application. Why use anything different? It's fine for techs who will never follow themselves, but if you are going to be the next one doing the same job, you become a little more sensitized to how hard you would be making it for the next one. 

BTW, if you want to learn more about PVA and Aliphatic Resin, here is a good article on them and their variants.

Regards,

Fred Sturm

fssturm@comcast.net

http://fredsturm.net

www.artoftuning.com

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein

Mr. Purdy,

You want PVA not PVC anything. I mentioned the two Elmer's products because they are the only ones on the market that I'm aware of suitable for key bushings. They both dry hard and I've removed them quickly and easily with 90% water 10% wallpaper stripper out of a hypo oiler 5-6 drops right on the bushing.  In fact, they remove so easily that you should probably consider going with hide or fish glue because they are more tenacious. Titebond, Elmer"s yellow carpenters wood glue and other woodworking glues should probably be avoided as much as PVC-E. Glue is fascinating stuff and the more I learn about it the better hide glue looks.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 09:51
From: Fred Sturm
Subject: key bushing glue

Chris,

That's PVA, not PVC-A. Polyvinyl-acetate. PVC is Polyvinyl-Chloride.

I'm not so sure that PVA is a great choice for bushings. It may be a bit better than PVC-E, but it is still going to take longer to absorb moisture and get soft enough to release, and I suspect it will leave a residue. This is based on following what I am pretty sure is PVA on both key bushings and dampers. Not much different from "aliphatic resin" glues like Titebond in that respect: the latter is more moisture resistant due to the resins added to PVA in their formulation. 

I'd stick to hide or fish. I prefer hot hide because it sets faster and doesn't absorb into the felt as much (not that fish glue absorbs enough to be a problem. Both release and leave a nice clean surface ready for another application. Why use anything different? It's fine for techs who will never follow themselves, but if you are going to be the next one doing the same job, you become a little more sensitized to how hard you would be making it for the next one. 

BTW, if you want to learn more about PVA and Aliphatic Resin, here is a good article on them and their variants.

Regards,

Fred Sturm

fssturm@comcast.net

http://fredsturm.net

www.artoftuning.com

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge, but imagination." - Einstein

Original Message------

Thank you everyone for your comments.  They were pretty much what I expected.  I know of technicians that use PVC-E on key bushings and swear by it.  But I have also had the nightmare of removing gobs of the stuff from mortices.  I was not sure, though, that that was PVC-E or something else.  I will stick with hide glue.  (Sorry, awful pun). 

I have never used fish glue, I am going to check that out!  I may also experiment with PVC-A.  But I agree with Deb, I think the hard finish of hide glue is preferable to the softer give of the white glues for bushings.  

Thank you!

Chris

Christopher D. Purdy R.P.T.
Registered Piano Technician
School of Music, Ohio University
Rm. 311, Robt. Glidden Hall
Athens, OH  45701
Office (740) 593-4230
Cell    (740) 590-3842
fax      (740) 593-1429
http://www.ohiou.edu/music

Original Message------

Mr. Purdy,

You want PVA not PVC anything. I mentioned the two Elmer's products because they are the only ones on the market that I'm aware of suitable for key bushings. They both dry hard and I've removed them quickly and easily with 90% water 10% wallpaper stripper out of a hypo oiler 5-6 drops right on the bushing.  In fact, they remove so easily that you should probably consider going with hide or fish glue because they are more tenacious. Titebond, Elmer"s yellow carpenters wood glue and other woodworking glues should probably be avoided as much as PVC-E. Glue is fascinating stuff and the more I learn about it the better hide glue looks.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

PVC-E is NOT water soluble. Yes, you can wipe it off with a damp cloth while it is still wet. But once it has dried, water will not dissolve it. Water will turn it into a gooey mess that continues to stick on anything.  (This will contaminate mortises, of course)

I am not certain how PVA does with water. There are so many formulations for different tasks. I know some special formulations are waterproof, but the "regular" stuff may behave just like PVC-E.  Anyone tried it? There may be some PVA formulations (craft glues?) which are indeed water soluble.

I would not use any water based "conditioner" on key bushings glued with fish glue. A tiniest bit might be OK, but a tiniest bit more might soak into the glue and weaken the joint.
Besides, if the mortises are sized, and the proper thickness of cloth is used, there is no heed for a liquid  to size the bushing. Perhaps a light touch of an iron, but that's it.

Thankfully, we no longer have to choose between "Thin, Medium and Thick" cloth.   Nowadays there are six or seven thicknesses of bushing cloth. available

By the way, Lee Valley tools has a free shipping event on right now, for the next two weeks.  Time for me to stock up again, on fish glue and other fine things.  (I can't say enough good things about this business)

Lee Valley Tools

Leevalley		remove preview
Lee Valley Tools View this on Leevalley >

------------------------------
Jurgen Goering
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 11:15
From: Christopher Purdy
Subject: key bushing glue

Yeah, my mistake with PVC-E vs PVA.  I tangled up my E's and A's.  

For what it's worth, I have always used hide glue for all the reasons stated by everyone above.  I was in a bind recently though and tried PVC-E.  I know others that use it and swear by it.  I found it really easy to use and I was hoping there was a secret to remove it that I had missed.  But no, I'm back to hide glue.  I have used it quite a bit and learned a few tricks so it's not the pain to use that it used to be.

Thank you all so much for your comments!

Chris

Christopher D. Purdy R.P.T.
Registered Piano Technician
School of Music, Ohio University
Rm. 311, Robt. Glidden Hall
Athens, OH  45701
Office (740) 593-4230
Cell    (740) 590-3842
fax      (740) 593-1429
http://www.ohiou.edu/music

Original Message------

Mr. Purdy,

You want PVA not PVC anything. I mentioned the two Elmer's products because they are the only ones on the market that I'm aware of suitable for key bushings. They both dry hard and I've removed them quickly and easily with 90% water 10% wallpaper stripper out of a hypo oiler 5-6 drops right on the bushing.  In fact, they remove so easily that you should probably consider going with hide or fish glue because they are more tenacious. Titebond, Elmer"s yellow carpenters wood glue and other woodworking glues should probably be avoided as much as PVC-E. Glue is fascinating stuff and the more I learn about it the better hide glue looks.

------------------------------
Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
------------------------------

What is the horrible glue used in keybushings in many american uprights in the 1960s and 70s?  Made it hard to remove the old bushings, gooey, and hard to clean up.

------------------------------
Zeno Wood
Brooklyn, NY
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 17:15
From: Jurgen Goering
Subject: key bushing glue

PVC-E is NOT water soluble. Yes, you can wipe it off with a damp cloth while it is still wet. But once it has dried, water will not dissolve it. Water will turn it into a gooey mess that continues to stick on anything.  (This will contaminate mortises, of course)

I am not certain how PVA does with water. There are so many formulations for different tasks. I know some special formulations are waterproof, but the "regular" stuff may behave just like PVC-E.  Anyone tried it? There may be some PVA formulations (craft glues?) which are indeed water soluble.

I would not use any water based "conditioner" on key bushings glued with fish glue. A tiniest bit might be OK, but a tiniest bit more might soak into the glue and weaken the joint.
Besides, if the mortises are sized, and the proper thickness of cloth is used, there is no heed for a liquid  to size the bushing. Perhaps a light touch of an iron, but that's it.

Thankfully, we no longer have to choose between "Thin, Medium and Thick" cloth.   Nowadays there are six or seven thicknesses of bushing cloth. available

By the way, Lee Valley tools has a free shipping event on right now, for the next two weeks.  Time for me to stock up again, on fish glue and other fine things.  (I can't say enough good things about this business)

Lee Valley Tools

Leevalley		remove preview
Lee Valley Tools View this on Leevalley >

------------------------------
Jurgen Goering

Original Message:
Sent: 08-30-2017 11:15
From: Christopher Purdy
Subject: key bushing glue

Yeah, my mistake with PVC-E vs PVA.  I tangled up my E's and A's.  

For what it's worth, I have always used hide glue for all the reasons stated by everyone above.  I was in a bind recently though and tried PVC-E.  I know others that use it and swear by it.  I found it really easy to use and I was hoping there was a secret to remove it that I had missed.  But no, I'm back to hide glue.  I have used it quite a bit and learned a few tricks so it's not the pain to use that it used to be.

Thank you all so much for your comments!

Chris

Christopher D. Purdy R.P.T.
Registered Piano Technician
School of Music, Ohio University
Rm. 311, Robt. Glidden Hall
Athens, OH  45701
Office (740) 593-4230
Cell    (740) 590-3842
fax      (740) 593-1429
http://www.ohiou.edu/music

Original Message------

Mr. Purdy,

You want PVA not PVC anything. I mentioned the two Elmer's products because they are the only ones on the market that I'm aware of suitable for key bushings. They both dry hard and I've removed them quickly and easily with 90% water 10% wallpaper stripper out of a hypo oiler 5-6 drops right on the bushing.  In fact, they remove so easily that you should probably consider going with hide or fish glue because they are more tenacious. Titebond, Elmer"s yellow carpenters wood glue and other woodworking glues should probably be avoided as much as PVC-E. Glue is fascinating stuff and the more I learn about it the better hide glue looks.

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Karl Roeder
Pompano Beach FL
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Original Message------

What is the horrible glue used in keybushings in many american uprights in the 1960s and 70s?  Made it hard to remove the old bushings, gooey, and hard to clean up.

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Zeno Wood
Brooklyn, NY
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