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Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

  • 1.  Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-07-2018 20:53
    Hello all,

    The next part of my efficiency tips is here. I apologize about the delay in writing them, life has been very busy as of late. Looking forward to any and all comments. Next times tip is one of my favorites, so stay "tuned"!

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-07-2018 21:18
    Interesting Benjamin,

    You must have read my mind.

    I handed in my article for the PT Journal on January 14.

    Paul.

    ------------------------------
    Paul Brown, RPT
    President
    Piano Technicians Guild
    Vancouver, BC Canada
    Email: pres@ptg.org
    ------------------------------



  • 3.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-08-2018 10:31
    LONG POST!!!

    Benjamin,

    While I respect and appreciate the wisdom of learning and tuning ambidextrously, I do need to take issue with the idea that repetitive actions (in and of themselves) cause physical damage to the body. (Sorry, but the mouse clicking thing really was the trigger).

    I am now "crossing the Rubicon" on this issue and I know for a fact that it is going to create an explosive reaction in quite a few people. That's OK...I can handle it. However some will not be able handle what I am about to say.

    The medical, pharmaceutical , and insurance industries have worked "hand in glove" for a long time to convince the population that if you do any activity over and over you will damage your body. Thus...

    Repetitive Motion Syndrome

    This is patently NOT true.

    However, what do most people do when they are in pain? They run to the doctor (especially if they have INSURANCE that will cover all or most of it [no insurance?...less likely to go to doctor]). What does the doctor do? The doctor "confirms" that you "have a medical condition" (in case you didn't know, a "medical condition" is one that insurance companies 'agree' that they will pay for...otherwise it is simply a collection of symptoms for which they will not pay and therefore is not a "medical condition" [they look it up in their book]).

    I do not have time to extrapolate the entire fault line here. But if you follow the money, it ends at the pharmaceutical companies. They promote and often actually create many of the medical "problems" people suffer from (for which, of course, THEY have the "cure" or "treatment" [hopefully ongoing, long term, etc.]and will gladly supply you for a price).

    It is all intertwined (as noted in paragraph 3 above) so that the average person has no knowledge that they are being manipulated psychologically to their detriment.

    Think:  All of the these entities DO NOT MAKE MONEY WHEN PEOPLE ARE HEALTHY. They have a strong financial incentive to keep people ailing in numerous ways because only then are they "needed" (think money).

    Sounds cynical, but if you do your research you will find out it is truer than you could ever have imagined, and it is far more pervasive than you ever imagined.

    How else could it come about that one could actually believe that clicking a mouse could "cause" a serious medical condition? "You expect me to believe that?"  Well, if enough "informed", "intelligent", "qualified medical professionals", "and other qualified sources" (think media) SAY IT ENOUGH TIMES (any advertising pro will tell you), you will come to believe it. Then, when the time is right, YOU TOO will get the symptoms, and you too, will go to the doctor, and that doctor will likely give you a prescription (drug) to deal with your problem. And of course since one size never fits all, when that drug doesn't work for you, you will go back to the doctor, who will prescribe a different drug, etc. Etc.  Get the picture?

    Where do the drugs from? Pharmaceuticals. Where do doctors get their information about these drugs? You should able to answer that.


    Enough already!

    Okay. People do get pain. I know that. If I injure myself I will probably get some pain associated with it. But it is temporary and goes away soon when things have healed. I have l slipped on ice several times this winter. It hurts...but it goes away. (Fortunately I didn't break anything).

    But the idea that repetitive motion (in itself) damages joints (or whatever) which then produces pain...is pure bunk.

    I can hear the angry outcries already and I haven't even pressed the send button!

    However, if a person BELIEVES the above "line", or even strongly suspects that it might be true, then an external source of stress (family, work, financial, sickness or death of close friend, relative, loved one, or even past emotional abuses [I'll stop there] ) can in fact have an outlet of producing pain through this "perceived medical condition" of RMS. Is the MOTION the source of the pain?...no, but rather the EMOTION associated with the external stress is the ultimate cause of the pain.

    Check out Dr. John Sarno. He's not the only one, but he has written on the subject authoritatively and well.

    I have to go now.

    Pwg



    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-12-2018 13:46
    -Long Post-

    Hello Peter,

    Been thinking about what you say over the weekend. I follow your argument, but have to disagree, yet agree. Keep reading.

    1. I agree in that, when doing something correctly, no matter how many times you do it, it shouldn't (in theory) hurt you. However, repetitive motions CAN aggravate existing conditions. Going to the mouse clicking issue, let's say that someone hurts their fingers doing something. It's such a small injury that they soon forget it happened. Then they go to work, sit at a desk all day, and click the mouse between one and ten thousand times with that finger - every day. Don't tell me you think that won't aggravate the pre-existing problem.

    2. As far as I know (and I'll gladly admit I'm no expert), the best treatment for RMS is to simply not do that motion for a while. There are pain medications available, but those are no cure. Now take that and apply to a tuner with, let's say, shoulder pain. Unless he's torn a ligament or damaged himself otherwise, the best course of action would probably be to use the other hand to tune with until he can tune without pain in his original hand. Thus I disagree with your exertion that RMS is a medical conspiracy.

    3. Even if the pain were "only in your head", doing that motion with the other hand would probably help one forget the pain, if for no other reason than that it's a psychological change. As we all know, the mind controls everything.... it might bring about healing in a different way than physical.

    4. Another reason we should learn to tune ambidextrously is to be able to continue to bring in an income through injuries. On Saturday I went ice skating, and smashed my right hand. The only lasting pain from the accident is in my pinky. While I could probably tune with my right hand now, if I had had a tuning later that afternoon, there would have been no way I could have kept the appointment if I had been "right hand only." (Yes, I use a key pounder, and don't do FFF blows while tuning, so I believe I would have been able to keep an appointment while tuning left handed and hitting the keys with my right hand.) Now imagine that you injured your right hand severely, but could still use it with a key pounder. What would you do for the next few weeks? Give up at least half your income while you learn to tune left handed? Or be thankful that you already know how to tune left handed so that you can keep putting food on your family's table?

    For reasons listed above, I have to take the opposite stance.

    Respectfully,

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------



  • 5.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-13-2018 09:17
    Benjamin,

    Sorry to hear of your accident. Reminds me of my two (maybe three) ice slips this winter.

    I am with you all the way on why ambidexterity is wise, as well as good for the brain and body. Absolutely no difference there. And, I wish I were better at it. Need to do some wood-shedding.

    When it comes to chronic pain of nearly every kind, every doctor in existence will tell us that anxiety will aggravate or worsen an already existing condition. That is pretty much a given, and it is absolutely true. Few doctors will acknowledge that anxiety can actually be THE CAUSE OF chronic pain (in any area of the body).  This is the primary difference between Dr. Sarno's research and conclusions, and the standard medical dogma (supported and strengthened by the pharmaceutical and insurance industries).

    I didn't believe it either until after observing and experiencing numerous situations that confirmed to me that he was absolutely correct. I didn't have the whole picture. Once I did and chewed on it a while, I got it.  There have been several instances where I thought my pain was from piano work, and one in particular almost put me out (of business [before I knew anything of Dr. Sarno]).

    Many people with chronic pain syndromes could benefit from his insight on this matter, if they are willing to apply it. As controversial as this may be, pulling on the tuning hammer, or hitting the keys, is not the CAUSE of pain that anyone is experiencing. You can take that to the bank. But you have to do your research and think it through. A few in this forum have actually done this with benefit.

    This CAN be a good discussion as long as tempers don't flare.  Got to go now.

    Pwg


    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-13-2018 16:25
    Hello Peter,

    Thanks for the explanation; your points make sense now!

    I think, in your last post, you've hit the nail right on the head. Only one last comment:

    "As controversial as this may be, pulling on the tuning hammer, or hitting the keys, is not the CAUSE of pain that anyone is experiencing."

    I disagree there. As is mentioned in many of the Reyburn's classes, working "outside of your sphere of mechanical influence" can cause bodily harm. Or being too hard when you hit those keys. Could working in those conditions be the cause of pain? Certainly. Could continuing to work in those conditions cause chronic pain? Absolutely. Like I said before, in theory, doing something correctly shouldn't cause pain, but it may aggravate a preexisting condition. All that to say, the motion of pulling the tuning lever or hitting the keys may or may not be the cause of pain, but it may certainly push it over the edge to where we feel the pain.

    But yes, I've seen situations where dwelling on the pain actually brings it back.

    Respectfully,

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------



  • 7.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-13-2018 20:10
    I must respectfully disagree with you on a couple of points, Peter. There is no question that anxiety/stress can aggravate an injury and, in some cases, may even turn out to be the underlying cause of pain. A well informed doctor can/should help the patient determine whether surgery, medication or physical therapy is appropriate. And in some instances perhaps the best approach is to spend time in the counsel of a therapist to deal with the underlying emotional issues which may be at fault.

    But, I think you make a mistake in completely discounting the concept of repetitive motion injury. Such injuries are not uncommon among musicians - particularly young conservatory student types. O.K. - stress may be a factor in some cases. But, I challenge you to sit at a piano, or your favorite instrument, and practice scales or other exercises non stop - as many music school students do. At some point  your muscles will tire. Keep pushing and you will experience soreness. Keep it up for days or months on end and you are headed for "repetitive motion injury". Pressing on a mouse may not take much effort, but our bodies are not designed for this type of movement to be performed thousands of times a day - day after day after day, year after year, etc.

    The other issue I have with your thesis is the conspiracy element. I am always skeptical of conspiracy theories. For your thesis to be true would require thousands of co-conspirators. Employees of the pharmaceutical companies, employees of the insurance companies and the doctors themselves would all have to be involved. It is very difficult to keep a conspiracy secret if there are more than a few individuals involved. After all, these professions are made up of people who have families. I refuse to believe that so many thousands of individuals would have such a callous disregard for the health and well-being of their neighbors. Alternatively, we would have to believe that thousands of doctors and are not very bright and are being duped by pharmaceutical sales hype. And insurance companies make money by not spending it. Look at the list of procedures and medications that insurers will not pay for.

    Don't misunderstand - I'm not putting the medical profession on a pedestal. Some doctors are too quick to look for a surgical fix.
    Many are too quick to write out a prescription for pain medication. The oversubscribing of opioids is a good example. But, just because a medication is overused does not mean that is doesn't have a legitimate use in some circumstances. There is evidence to suggest that attention-deficit-disorder may have been over-diagnosed in recent years (yes, partially the result of marketing by the big pharmaceutical companies). But, that doesn't mean the condition doesn't exist.

    No, surgery and/or medication are not always the best solution for dealing with pain. But, referring to repetitive motion injury as "bunk" is a disservice to those who do suffer with it.



    ------------------------------
    Gerry Johnston
    Haverhill, MA
    gj@gjpianotuner.com
    www.gjpianotuner.com
    (978) 372-2250
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-14-2018 09:52
    Gerry,

    Believe me, I would love to be able agree with you. And any who are reading this need to understand that I didn't make this up, this not just a nut-case opinion coming from me. No... I was a complete skeptic until I started seeing the "puzzle pieces" coming together, and the evidence pointing to a specific conclusion.

    I don't mean to hurt or discourage anyone. My intention is strictly to help. Help by pointing to the source of the problem rather than treating the symptom itself. This was what happened with Dr. Sarno. He gradually realized that he was treating the symptoms but not the problem itself. Once he realized where the source of the issues was coming from (which totally shocked him) he changed his treatment methods accordingly and realized a hugely improved success rate.

     I don't want anyone to take my word for it. I encourage people to investigate Dr. Sarno's work on their own and come to their own conclusions. My wife and I (and others) have benefited greatly from his advice. It is NOT EASY to assimilate what he says (at first), it must be read several times, and I will admit that it is NOT EASY to apply what he says...but it works when we do.

    Yes, it is easier to take a pill (or whatever other of thousands of medications available...for a price). Dr. Sarno was NOT LIKED by big pharma or insurance because he told it like it is (once he figured out what was going on) and publicized it.

    I don't actually see it as a conspiracy, but rather people in a position of authority and power just doing what they "see necessary" to keep things going for themselves and their industry. Yes, there are some dishonest ones in there, but most simply don't want to rock the boat.

    Again I say, don't take my word for it, check it out yourself. If you or someone you know has RMS or something like it, for the price of a book, you may be able to kiss that problem (and quite a few others) goodbye.

    Thanks for keeping everything non-heated and respectable. I appreciate it.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 9.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-14-2018 21:46
    Edited by Peter Grey 02-14-2018 21:51
    ANOTHER VERY LONG POST:

    I think a little more clarification is in order here.

    When I used the term "bunk" in relation to RMS, I was not in any way trying to say that it does not exist.  Far from it!  Nor was I trying to say that anyone suffering from it is "out in left field", looking for attention, or otherwise "loopy".  No.  I fully understand that it is a real condition, the pain is real, and it can be intense and debilitating. So, if my choice of words hurt anyone's feelings or aroused anger...I totally apologize.

    Also, this is not an attack on the medical profession. If I break a bone I'm going straight to the doctor who has the knowledge, training, expertise to put me back together as best as possible. The vast majority of physicians are truly interested in the welfare of their patients. Yes, there are those who knowingly and intentionally are more interested in their bottom line financially, but that is certainly a minority.

    The issue that I was referring to as "bunk" was/is the true SOURCE of the pain. If I may quote Chris Robinson (and I'm quite sure that Ron N. would have been in full agreement): "Putting water in the radiator won't work if the car is out of gas".  Translation: "Treat the problem, not the symptom".  The trick is to identify correctly the source of the problem.

    I'm sure we have all had the experience of spending long periods of time trying to track down a buzz the we were "confident" was coming from a specific area of a piano (because it absolutely sounded like it), only to eventually find out that it was actually something completely different that we had not thought about, or checked...maybe we even discounted the idea as "impossible", yet there it was.  Then, in retrospect, we figured out logically (once we knew) how it could have happened. And we said: "OMG, I can't believe that was actually it!"  Well, it was. We spent a long time 'putting water in the radiator when in fact the car was out of gas'. When we put the gas in...Vroom!

    And it is often this way with many other things. The actual solution is not always what it appears it should be. It is hidden (until one learns how to uncover it).  So, back to RMS and other related issues.

    Doctors are often in a tough spot these days (largely by the expectations of the public at large). They are expected (by the patient) to:

        1) Figure out precisely what is wrong with the patient
        2) Do it quickly
        3) Provide a remedy that will solve the problem (also relatively quickly)

    The remedy (prescription) all too often turns out to be a drug of one form or another. This is largely driven by the public expectation: "Doc, give something for the pain...give me something that will take care of this...give me, give me, give me something"  In fact, it is to the point where, when they leave the doctor's office, if they don't have a prescription for something to go get at the pharmacy, they feel cheated, shortchanged. The doctors all KNOW this. The pharmaceuticals KNOW this (in fact, big pharma is largely behind this for many, many years). Many doctors know perfectly well that in reality, very often the patient just needs to go home, have some chicken soup, and rest for a while, and they'll get better. However, most patients will not stand for this...they want to be given something for  their problem...therefore the doctors oblige with antibiotics, anti-depressants, PAIN KILLERS, etc. all supplied by the pharmaceuticals. They do this because if they don't, their patients will go to a "real" doctor who WILL give something for their condition.

    It is a NO WIN situation. You either play the game or you're out. It's not their fault...but what else can they do? And the pharmaceutical industry steps in with a pill or a treatment for virtually EVERYTHING under the sun. (Think TV advertising for medication...need I say more?) Now the doctors have what they need to continue in business. Unfortunately once big money starts rolling there is always the risk of diagnoses being skewed, etc. etc.  We get the picture.

    OK, enough of all that you already know.  Back to RMS.  It is commonly concluded that the pain associated with RMS is specifically due to the activity associated with the pain. Pain in the finger? What do you do with it? I click a mouse 10,000 times a day. That must be the problem (seems logical). I bang on piano keys 10,000 times a day...that must be the problem. I pull on a tuning lever 10,000 times a day...that must be the problem, and it must be the source of the pain.  Okay...sounds logical.

    But what about all those people who click a mouse, or bang on piano keys, or pull on tuning levers, or do any number of other repetitive motions 10,000 or more times a day, day in and day out, AND HAVE NO PAIN!?  Why can they do it with no pain, year after year after year and not develop these problems?...if in fact this activity CAUSES pain?

    Dr. Sarno was puzzled by situations like this.  For instance patient A comes in with intense back pain, and an x-ray (or MRI, or whatever) showing a herniated disk, having been told by a doctor that this herniated disk is the CAUSE of his back pain. However, patient B happens to also have an x-ray showing the exact same problem on the exact same vertebrae, yet is not complaining of any back pain, but rather is there for some other pain related issue (shoulder pain, neck...whatever). Sarno wondered WHY, if they both have the exact same PHYSICAL deformity, why do they not have the same pain IF IN FACT that was the CAUSE of the pain?  Hmmmmm.  And many other puzzling pain related problems that did not make logical sense.

    He was open-minded enough to eventually begin to think that something else might be at work here and that set him on the path to figure it out.  AND HE WAS RIGHT! (In my opinion) This was what led him to eventually conclude that just about any condition that ends in the word "syndrome" probably did not actually have a PHYSICAL INJURY CAUSE.  Yes, there definitely are physical causes of pain, however, any treatment that assumes there is a physical cause (when it actually is not) is not going to have success. When he changed his method of treatment to address the underlying cause of these issues, he started having success that completely surpassed his expectations.  No drugs, no splints, no medication, no pain relievers, no therapy.   Nothing but education and uncovering the true source of the pain.

    RMS falls into this category. Anyone who wants to benefit from Dr. Sarno's research will need to do it on their own. The information is freely available. His books can be had through your local library (you don't even have to buy one).  We happened on it by chance about 17 years ago.  We are glad we did.  Our previous physician studied with him for a year. I repeat...it is not easy, but if you do it, it works...really well.

    I hope this clarifies my position on the matter, and again, I hope no one has been offended by my words.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-15-2018 13:28
    Thanks for clarifying Peter. Based on your recent post I don't think we are very far apart in regard to this. I am fortunate enough to have a primary care doctor who doesn't immediately reach for meds. or surgery. He asks LOTS of questions in order to help determine the root of the problem.
    We consumers need to be more aware of our own bodies and stop expecting doctors to be miracle workers. When ti comes to finding a good doctor remember the old Smokey Robinson tune, "You Gotta Shop Around".

    ------------------------------
    Gerry Johnston
    Haverhill, MA
    gj@gjpianotuner.com
    www.gjpianotuner.com
    (978) 372-2250
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-15-2018 02:20
        I once had an elderly physician tell me that "The body heals itself.  All medications do is assist the body in the process."  I thought about this over the years and came to the conclusion that he's right.  Food for thought.....
        Mike Kurta





  • 12.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-15-2018 08:20
    Mike,

    👍👍

    Yes, about 25 years ago one of my first inkling into this was meeting a doctor who told me:

    "90% of people who go to a doctor get better, and 90% of people who don't go to a doctor get better".

    Hmmm. More food for thought.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-15-2018 09:19
    I would like to corroborate Peter’s experience. He previously posted about the books by Dr John Sarno and thought why not give it a try? The results were amazing. If you have pain of any type in any part of your body give this a try. Dr Sarno kept records from the thousands of patients he treated and he had a success rate of over 90%. What do you have to lose?
    Peter, thank you for sharing this information.

    Sent from my iPhone




  • 14.  RE: Tips for the Efficient Tuner: Part 6

    Posted 02-15-2018 17:52
    David,

    Precisely!  What have you got to lose? The price of a book. If you don't agree with it, give it to Goodwill. That's where my wife found it. Cheap medicine.

    Thanks.

    Pwg

    ------------------------------
    Peter Grey
    Stratham NH
    603-686-2395
    pianodoctor57@gmail.com
    ------------------------------