Convention Community

Hi,

I had been teaching a church choir some fifteen years.
I found mostly the higher notes were flat on the piano, so I
closed the lid so no one touched the keys - maybe that 
particular tuner!

I recently saw some scientific papers that say, really, the
octave should be about 20 cent larger. That explains why
many high notes sound flat on (any) fixed pitch instrument/s.

My question, do tuners usually do this also (raise high note pitch)
by intent, and if so, by how much.

I actually programmed a synth to play (with pure sine waves only),
all octaves bigger, something like 1220 cents, attached, sound
good to me (alone?).

Thanks for any interest,



------------------------------
Linus Liu
HONG KONG
------------------------------

Linus-
Why are you posting this to the convention community?
The Pianotech list would be more appropriate.
If you were a PTG member you would have been reading a 30,000 word article by Kent Swafford, published in monthly installments in the Piano Technicians Journal which discusses your questions in fine up-to-date detail.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 10:49
From: Linus Liu
Subject: Tuners usually raise the higher notes?

Hi,

I had been teaching a church choir some fifteen years.
I found mostly the higher notes were flat on the piano, so I
closed the lid so no one touched the keys - maybe that
particular tuner!

I recently saw some scientific papers that say, really, the
octave should be about 20 cent larger. That explains why
many high notes sound flat on (any) fixed pitch instrument/s.

My question, do tuners usually do this also (raise high note pitch)
by intent, and if so, by how much.

I actually programmed a synth to play (with pure sine waves only),
all octaves bigger, something like 1220 cents, attached, sound
good to me (alone?).

Thanks for any interest,



------------------------------
Linus Liu
HONG KONG
------------------------------

Hi Ed,

I suppose I do not have permission to post on PTG group.
I selected what showed up on the drag-down list.

Rgds

------------------------------
Linus Liu
HONG KONG
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 11:22
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Tuners usually raise the higher notes?

Linus-
Why are you posting this to the convention community?
The Pianotech list would be more appropriate.
If you were a PTG member you would have been reading a 30,000 word article by Kent Swafford, published in monthly installments in the Piano Technicians Journal which discusses your questions in fine up-to-date detail.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 10:49
From: Linus Liu
Subject: Tuners usually raise the higher notes?

Hi,

I had been teaching a church choir some fifteen years.
I found mostly the higher notes were flat on the piano, so I
closed the lid so no one touched the keys - maybe that
particular tuner!

I recently saw some scientific papers that say, really, the
octave should be about 20 cent larger. That explains why
many high notes sound flat on (any) fixed pitch instrument/s.

My question, do tuners usually do this also (raise high note pitch)
by intent, and if so, by how much.

I actually programmed a synth to play (with pure sine waves only),
all octaves bigger, something like 1220 cents, attached, sound
good to me (alone?).

Thanks for any interest,



------------------------------
Linus Liu
HONG KONG
------------------------------

I am wondering if your tuner is using an electronic tuner which doesn't compensate for inharmonicity.  If your piano is tuned by either an aural tuner or an electonic tuner who knows how to treat the inherent inharmonicity of a piano, it shouldn't sound flat in the treble.   Sorry, I am just an old guy here, who learned to tune before there was anything electronic to assist.  If it sounds flat to an accomplished musician, something is probably wrong.

------------------------------
Walter Bagnall
Chillicothe OH
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 22:35
From: Linus Liu
Subject: Tuners usually raise the higher notes?

Hi Ed,

I suppose I do not have permission to post on PTG group.
I selected what showed up on the drag-down list.

Rgds

------------------------------
Linus Liu
HONG KONG

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 11:22
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Tuners usually raise the higher notes?

Linus-
Why are you posting this to the convention community?
The Pianotech list would be more appropriate.
If you were a PTG member you would have been reading a 30,000 word article by Kent Swafford, published in monthly installments in the Piano Technicians Journal which discusses your questions in fine up-to-date detail.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 10:49
From: Linus Liu
Subject: Tuners usually raise the higher notes?

Hi,

I had been teaching a church choir some fifteen years.
I found mostly the higher notes were flat on the piano, so I
closed the lid so no one touched the keys - maybe that
particular tuner!

I recently saw some scientific papers that say, really, the
octave should be about 20 cent larger. That explains why
many high notes sound flat on (any) fixed pitch instrument/s.

My question, do tuners usually do this also (raise high note pitch)
by intent, and if so, by how much.

I actually programmed a synth to play (with pure sine waves only),
all octaves bigger, something like 1220 cents, attached, sound
good to me (alone?).

Thanks for any interest,



------------------------------
Linus Liu
HONG KONG
------------------------------

Hi Walter,  No, tuners usually do not use an electronic device when doing the tuning.
I think rather tuners come and go in very great hurry, perhaps most pianos around
are not taken much care or concern by students who learn to earn some grades to gain
points at school. Tuners are perhaps just not very serious either here.  Really not
that many "accomplished" musicians here.

Talked to Nelson Yum from PTG here, he concurred - SOME tuners take short cuts.





------------------------------
Linus Liu
HONG KONG
------------------------------

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 22:47
From: Walter Bagnall
Subject: Tuners usually raise the higher notes?

I am wondering if your tuner is using an electronic tuner which doesn't compensate for inharmonicity.  If your piano is tuned by either an aural tuner or an electonic tuner who knows how to treat the inherent inharmonicity of a piano, it shouldn't sound flat in the treble.   Sorry, I am just an old guy here, who learned to tune before there was anything electronic to assist.  If it sounds flat to an accomplished musician, something is probably wrong.

------------------------------
Walter Bagnall
Chillicothe OH

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 22:35
From: Linus Liu
Subject: Tuners usually raise the higher notes?

Hi Ed,

I suppose I do not have permission to post on PTG group.
I selected what showed up on the drag-down list.

Rgds

------------------------------
Linus Liu
HONG KONG

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 11:22
From: Ed Sutton
Subject: Tuners usually raise the higher notes?

Linus-
Why are you posting this to the convention community?
The Pianotech list would be more appropriate.
If you were a PTG member you would have been reading a 30,000 word article by Kent Swafford, published in monthly installments in the Piano Technicians Journal which discusses your questions in fine up-to-date detail.

------------------------------
Ed Sutton
ed440@me.com
(980) 254-7413

Original Message:
Sent: 07-20-2018 10:49
From: Linus Liu
Subject: Tuners usually raise the higher notes?

Hi,

I had been teaching a church choir some fifteen years.
I found mostly the higher notes were flat on the piano, so I
closed the lid so no one touched the keys - maybe that
particular tuner!

I recently saw some scientific papers that say, really, the
octave should be about 20 cent larger. That explains why
many high notes sound flat on (any) fixed pitch instrument/s.

My question, do tuners usually do this also (raise high note pitch)
by intent, and if so, by how much.

I actually programmed a synth to play (with pure sine waves only),
all octaves bigger, something like 1220 cents, attached, sound
good to me (alone?).

Thanks for any interest,



------------------------------
Linus Liu
HONG KONG
------------------------------