Pianotech

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New tax laws

  • 1.  New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Has anyone explored with an accountant whether piano techs operating as independent contractors qualify for the Trumpster's 20% pass through deduction?

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------


  • 2.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Hi David:

    I didn't know about this, but I just Googled it. It appears that any small business owner that pays taxes on their business on a regular personal tax return is eligible for a 20% reduction on the income from the business, depending upon certain business income limits. Here's the first article I read about this:

    https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/the-new-pass-through-tax-deduction.html

    Hey, I'll take it!

    Paul McCloud
    San Diego




    Subject: [PTG Pianotech] : New tax laws

    Has anyone explored with an accountant whether piano techs operating as independent contractors qualify for the Trumpster's 20% pass through deduction?

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320





  • 3.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Ok but know that some of the deductions you were previously allowed to take you no longer can. See my other response.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 4.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    "If, however, you’re self-employed, you can deduct eligible home office expenses against your self-employment income. Therefore, the deduction will still be available to you for 2018 through 2025."
    So, that one's still going to be there.
    "If you’re self-employed, you may continue to take a business deduction for the business use of your personal car. This was not eliminated like the employees deduction: it was enhanced."
    That one too.
    What else? For me, these are the biggest. Most of the lost deductions are for employed individuals who use their car or home office for their employers. Maybe some of us who work for school systems as employees will be affected. The rest of us who are completely self employed and not incorporated as a C corp will not be affected by the new law from what I'm reading.
    There are many changes to our deductions outside of our businesses, which is another thing. But the regular deductions we're used to in running our businesses are still going to be there.
    Paul McCloud
    San Diego




  • 5.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Quoting from several news sources...

    "The law allows any business owner earning less than $157,500, or $315,000 for couples filing jointly, to take the deduction."

    "Thus, after the passage of the Act, owners of sole proprietorships, S corporations and partnerships who qualify for the new deduction retained the same sizeable federal tax rate advantage over owners of a C corporation that they enjoyed prior to the enactment of the new law."

    I think there are few of us, as independent no employee businesses, that will be affected negatively by this. Especially since I believe this figure is based on taxable income, not gross income. An after deductions income of $157,500 is something that I know I will never see.

    At least that's how I think it's supposed to work. 


    ------------------------------
    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
    ------------------------------



  • 6.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Geoff:
    Read the article I just posted.
    Unless you have a regular C type corporation, which pays its own taxes, you can take a 20% cut off the top of your business income. If you make more than the limits you cited, there are some reductions to this. But most of us are going to benefit from a 20% reduction in our business taxes. If you have other income to add to your business income that adds up over the limit, then there is some less deduction.
    Paul McCloud
    San Diego



    Geoff Sykes
    Quoting from several news sources...

    " The law allows any business owner earning less than $157,500, or $315,000 for couples filing jointly, to take the deduction."

    "Thus, after the passage of the Act, owners of sole proprietorships, S corporations and partnerships who qualify for the new deduction retained the same sizeable federal tax rate advantage over owners of a C corporation that they enjoyed prior to the enactment of the new law."

    I think there are few of us, as independent no employee businesses, that will be affected negatively by this. Especially since I believe this figure is based on taxable income, not gross income. An after deductions income of $157,500 is something that I know I will never see.

    At least that's how I think it's supposed to work.

    ------------------------------
    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA





  • 7.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Paul --

    That is exactly what I was trying to express. We are essentially benefiting from this. Or at least not losing anything.

    ------------------------------
    Geoff Sykes, RPT
    Los Angeles CA
    ------------------------------



  • 8.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Oh, I must have misread your post. Apologies. Yes, it's a good thing for us.
    Best,
    Paul




  • 9.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Not necessarily true that we aren't losing anything. Auto expense and mileage, gone, office in home (for those whose shops are part of their home, gone, there are other write-offs that are also gone. So unless the 20% deduction exceeds the itemized deductions you took before and can no longer, you lose.  Better look at it more carefully or you could be in for a rude awakening. Anyway, that's my question, has anyone had an accountant check into it for them?

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 10.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    David

    Where did you hear that mileage, auto expenses and in home office expenses are gone?\


    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 11.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Well did you think they were just going to give you an extra 20% deduction?  The idea was to simplify and get rid of some of the itemized deductions. Same is true with caps on personal deductions. Those in high tax and high mortgage states will pay more, sometimes a lot more. With business some of the itemized deductions are dropped in favor of a standard deduction. Not only that but some service sector businesses don't get the deduction at all not the old itemized deductions. They will pay a lot more.  That's why I'm asking. Most people thought it was a gift. It's a con.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 12.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    David,

    Again, where did you get this information?  I can ask my son, again, but if you can tell me where you read it, I can be more specific.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 13.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 11 days ago
    There has been confusion created one particular accountant stating that business deductions are gone. It is true that unreimbursed business expenses of an employee on form 2106, which is subject to a 2% threshold & is filed on Schedule A is gone. These are not expenses deducted by a business, but rather an employee of a business. That same individual most likely would be taking the new Standard Deduction anyway, negating the usefulness of the itemized Deduction.

    There are no Standard or Itemized Deductions for business either. There weren't before. They are for individuals.

    There will still be a Schedule C(which most technicians use). The new draft form Schedule C was published on 07/12/18. It does not appear to have changed. Business Use of the Home & Vehicle expenses are still there.

    It is expected that 90% of the population will be able make a "postcard" filing,
    because they will only have W2 income & take the Standard Deduction with no other forms.
     
    I have attached the draft Schedule C & the 1040



    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    Proposed1040.pdf   524K 1 version
    pdf
    ProposedScheduleC.pdf   473K 1 version


  • 14.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 10 days ago
    Thanks John, I had not seen the new schedule c.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 15.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    This is why I was wondering if anyone had actually had a tax accountant look at the real numbers. There is much mus and disinformation and for several months after the bill passed the accountants were trying to get up to speed on the actual implications. I think articles are probably not reliable.

    If if anyone has an actual tax accountant input I'd be curious. When I get to it myself I'll report.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 16.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 11 days ago

    This is from my son, the CPA.

     

    "No. That's not right. There were no changes to the home office deduction or auto expenses for a self employed business owner. 

     

    Perhaps he's talking about the itemized deduction rules? Those were changed, and those deductions were eliminated if you were an employee getting a W-2 from someone and trying to claim home office or auto deductions. 

     

    But, a self-employed guy shouldn't be deducting their home office and auto expenses as Itemized deductions. They should be business deductions - which are still allowed as always.  

     

    Either this guy is an employee getting a W-2, or he's doing his taxes wrong in the first place". 

     

     






  • 17.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 11 days ago
    "This guy" is neither a W2 employee or doing his taxes wrong (I haven't done my taxes in this new system, nor has anyone else). This guy is just asking questions based on some things I've read in order to clarify. But thanks.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 18.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 11 days ago
    Hi, David,

    Being somewhat selfishly interested in how the new tax code affects us
    (all), I've been poking around a bit.

    While there are some new-ish books and software out there, it seems to
    be still at least somewhat speculative in nature...with remarks to "sign
    up for updates here", and the like.

    Feeling a bit stymied by that steaming pile; and not wanting to tackle
    doing too much digging around in 26 U.S.C. (AKA, Title 26 or the United
    States Code), I got in touch with a couple of friends who are "Enrolled
    Agents" in/for the I.R.S.

    Importantly for this discussion, here is the answer to the question of
    "what are the differences between Enrolled Agents and other tax
    professionals". Here's the answer:

    Only Enrolled Agents are required to demonstrate to the Internal Revenue
    Service their competence in matters of taxation before they may
    represent a taxpayer before the IRS. Unlike attorneys and CPAs, who may
    or may not choose to specialize in taxes, all EAs specialize in
    taxation. EAs are the only taxpayer representatives who receive their
    right to practice from the United States government. (CPAs and attorneys
    are licensed by the states.)

    Further, in addition to the stringent testing and application process,
    all EAs are required to complete 72 hours of continuing professional
    education, reported every three years, to maintain their status. Because
    of the difficulty in becoming an Enrolled Agent and keeping up the
    required credentials, there are fewer than 35,000 active EAs in the
    United States.

    Anyway, both of the Enrolled Agents with whom I spoke responded that
    neither of them feel that there is, at this time, sufficient information
    available (from the IRS, or other government sources) for anyone to be
    able to speak authoritatively about how any of the "many forthcoming
    changes" might affect an individual situation.

    One said that there should be more "usable information available during
    Q3" (which we're about half-way through at this writing); and that it
    would be prudent to "stick with what one has been doing for tax
    preparation" until there are more specific data.

    The other is retiring rather than have to requalify in order to work
    with the new code.

    My personal course is to take this latter advise (given to me by my tax
    person, another Enrolled Agent); and wait to see what unfolds in the
    next couple of months.

    Obviously in all of this, YMMV.

    I hope that this is of some help in parsing what look like some very
    treacherous waters in our mutual near future.

    Kind regards.

    Horace




    On 8/9/2018 6:31 PM, David Love via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
    > Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
    >
    > "This guy" is neither a W2 employee or doing his taxes wrong (I haven't done my taxes in this new system, nor has anyone else). This guy is just asking questions based on some things I've read in order to clarify. But thanks.
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > David Love RPT
    > www.davidlovepianos.com
    > davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    > 415 407 8320
    > ------------------------------
    > -------------------------------------------
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 08-09-2018 12:32
    > From: Willem Blees
    > Subject: New tax laws
    >
    > This is from my son, the CPA.
    >
    > "No. That's not right. There were no changes to the home office deduction or auto expenses for a self employed business owner.
    >
    > Perhaps he's talking about the itemized deduction rules? Those were changed, and those deductions were eliminated if you were an employee getting a W-2 from someone and trying to claim home office or auto deductions.
    >
    > But, a self-employed guy shouldn't be deducting their home office and auto expenses as Itemized deductions. They should be business deductions - which are still allowed as always.
    >
    > Either this guy is an employee getting a W-2, or he's doing his taxes wrong in the first place".
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    > Original Message------
    >
    > This is why I was wondering if anyone had actually had a tax accountant look at the real numbers. There is much mus and disinformation and for several months after the bill passed the accountants were trying to get up to speed on the actual implications. I think articles are probably not reliable.
    >
    > If if anyone has an actual tax accountant input I'd be curious. When I get to it myself I'll report.
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > David Love RPT
    > www.davidlovepianos.com
    > davidlovepianos@comcast.net <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>
    > 415 407 8320
    > ------------------------------
    >
    >
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  • 19.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 10 days ago
    Thanks Horace for your comments. My various conversations have also suggested that tax professionals are still trying to make their way through the new tax code to determine exactly what the impact on any individual might be. My financial planner (not a tax professional) suggested that there is much that is still unclear. I'm hoping TurboTax comes up with an update that will allow me to run a scenario but I'm not holding my breath.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 20.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 10 days ago
    In order of CPA's to keep their license, they have to attend a certain number of hours of training every year. My son is a CPA, and is the president and CEO of a small (35 people) accounting firm, which handles, amongst things, taxes for lots of small business and individuals. As the CEO of his firm, he has to make sure all his accountants, including those that don't even do taxes, are current with all the new laws and rules. As such, if he tells me that I will be getting a tax break, and that all my usual home use and car use expenses will still be deducted, you can bet your bottom dollar that this is correct. While he doesn't do taxes anymore for individuals of business, (his firm has other people for that), he does do mine.

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 21.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 10 days ago
    I certainly hope he's right. The self employed have been getting screwed for awhile. Big corporations on the other hand... ok I won't go there.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 22.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Right, the important part of that is "who qualify" (read some don't).

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 23.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    David,
    Two words:
    1. Smug
    2. Duly
    -chris

    ------------------------------
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it".

    chernobieffpiano.com
    865-986-7720
    ------------------------------



  • 24.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Chris: I don't get it.

    Everyone else:  the issue is more complicated. Not all businesses qualify, it seems somewhat random. Health providers, lawyers, others who provide certain types of *services* don't qualify. Has anyone asked an accountant if the service we provide qualifies or disqualifies?

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 25.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 11 days ago
    David,

    I think I know why such services as health providers and lawyers don't qualify for those deductions. At least here in California, health providers and lawyers must be incorporated. They can't be sole proprietors, and may or may not qualify for being an LLC or LLP. Each state is different on who can and can't operate as a certain type of business, and each business structure has to file a different set of taxes.

    From my understanding of the new and improved (simplified) tax code is that it will benefit the middle class the most - that's us, btw.

    One more thing one of my mentors told me. Beware of CPAs that don't actually study the tax codes. It sounds like some dumb advice, but he claimed that most Certified Public Accountants are good at accounting, not necessarily taxes, unless they study how the tax code. In some states, once they complete the IRS's tax course they become Enrolled Agents.

    That's not to say that CPAs can't be good at taxes. Rather, just because someone is a CPA doesn't automatically mean they know what they're doing when it comes to filing taxes.

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------



  • 26.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 10 days ago
    Hello, Benjamin,

    You wrote:

    "At least here in California, health providers and lawyers must be
    incorporated. They can't be sole proprietors, and may or may not qualify
    for being an LLC or LLP."

    Specifically, what is your source for this? That is, what specific code
    section(s) can you "cite" (meaning, to provide a complete citation for
    the material presented, including links to the specific code sections
    used to support your statement)?

    Third-party relations of opinions do not have "standing" (which, in this
    instance means that they are only hearsay); and, therefore, cannot be
    considered to be factual without further support as outlined above.

    Thank you very much.

    Kind regards.

    Horace

    On 8/9/2018 11:59 AM, Benjamin Sanchez via Piano Technicians Guild wrote:
    > Please do not forward this message due to Auto Login.
    >
    > David,
    >
    > I think I know why such services as health providers and lawyers don't qualify for those deductions. At least here in California, health providers and lawyers must be incorporated. They can't be sole proprietors, and may or may not qualify for being an LLC or LLP. Each state is different on who can and can't operate as a certain type of business, and each business structure has to file a different set of taxes.
    >
    > From my understanding of the new and improved (simplified) tax code is that it will benefit the middle class the most - that's us, btw.
    >
    > One more thing one of my mentors told me. Beware of CPAs that don't actually study the tax codes. It sounds like some dumb advice, but he claimed that most Certified Public Accountants are good at accounting, not necessarily taxes, unless they study how the tax code. In some states, once they complete the IRS's tax course they become Enrolled Agents.
    >
    > That's not to say that CPAs can't be good at taxes. Rather, just because someone is a CPA doesn't automatically mean they know what they're doing when it comes to filing taxes.
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > Benjamin Sanchez
    > Professional Piano Services
    > (805)315-8050
    > www.professional-piano-services.com
    > BenPianoPro@comcast.net
    > ------------------------------
    > -------------------------------------------
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 08-08-2018 23:58
    > From: David Love
    > Subject: New tax laws
    >
    > Chris: I don't get it.
    >
    > Everyone else: ??the issue is more complicated. Not all businesses qualify, it seems somewhat random. Health providers, lawyers, others who provide certain types of *services* don't qualify. Has anyone asked an accountant if the service we provide qualifies or disqualifies?
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > David Love RPT
    > www.davidlovepianos.com
    > davidlovepianos@comcast.net <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>
    > 415 407 8320
    > ------------------------------
    >
    > Original Message:
    > Sent: 08-08-2018 22:31
    > From: David Love
    > Subject: New tax laws
    >
    > Has anyone explored with an accountant whether piano techs operating as independent contractors qualify for the Trumpster's 20% pass through deduction?
    >
    > ------------------------------
    > David Love RPT
    > www.davidlovepianos.com
    > davidlovepianos@comcast.net <davidlovepianos@comcast.net>
    > 415 407 8320
    > ------------------------------
    >
    >
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  • 27.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 9 days ago
    Horace,

    This is the link an attorney sent me when looking at what type of business to set up. Scroll down to "Professioanl Services" and click on any of the links cited. From what he explained, my understanding was that those who provide "professional services" (meaning doctor, lawyer, etc.) cannot be a sole proprietor or an LLC. He then explained that "basically this means if you provide professional services then you have to be incorporated."

    This was his understanding, and if you disagree then feel free to consult your own attorney or search the codes yourself. I for one do not have the time or money to invest to satisfy your curiosity on a subject that has no direct or indirect bearing on me.

    The point of my original post was that different types of businesses pay taxes differently. C Corporations are double taxed, while sole proprietorships and S Corporations are single taxed. There are benefits to each type, and one should choose the type that will benefit their business the most.

    ------------------------------
    Benjamin Sanchez
    Professional Piano Services
    (805)315-8050
    www.professional-piano-services.com
    BenPianoPro@comcast.net
    ------------------------------



  • 28.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 9 days ago
    Professions are medical, law, and clergy, classically.

    ------------------------------
    Larry Messerly, RPT
    Bringing Harmony to Homes
    www.lacrossepianotuning.com
    ljmesserly@gmail.com
    928-899-7292
    ------------------------------



  • 29.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    I just asked my son, a CPA and president of a small accountant firm, and he confirmed that I will get that benefit.

    Good news for all of us

    ------------------------------
    Willem "Wim" Blees, RPT
    Mililani, HI 96789
    ------------------------------



  • 30.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Wim

    Thanks for checking.  The next question for your son is, are there any write-offs that we are losing.

    There's a lot of information flying around and I don't recall where I saw any particular thing.  There seems to be some confusion (on my part as well).  Time to visit my accountant (which has been me previously) and see whassup.

    ------------------------------
    David Love RPT
    www.davidlovepianos.com
    davidlovepianos@comcast.net
    415 407 8320
    ------------------------------



  • 31.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
      |   view attached
    Here's an article in this morning's Tucson newspaper. It doesn't seem to give many concrete answers, but check it out. It may be of some help-maybe.

    Richard West




    Attachment(s)

    pdf
    20% deduction.pdf   48K 1 version


  • 32.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    Yes. It was covered in both of my tax classes in Lancaster.

    Below the thresholds mentioned,
    none of the specialized business types(not entity types) mentioned
    are effected by the phaseout.

    Above those thresholds,
    your business may be effected, depending on whether or not yours,
    by definition(your reputation & skill), meets the specified service limitation.

    My advice, is(was) to file early in 2019 to see if you would be better suited to pursue
    an election to file as an S Corp going forward.
    The cut off date for doing so would be 03/15/19 for TY2019.








  • 33.  RE: New tax laws

    Posted 12 days ago
    BTW, both classes also featured the proposed new 1040 forms as
    of the 06/29/18 published date.